General politics discussion thread

[Yoghurt]

Is there a link to go with this story, or a credible source as I've seen it reported nowhere like BBC, Reuters et al.

 

Edit - "the commitment to solidarity, peace and socialism." hahahahahahahahaha, awesome.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Yoghurt

[Van Dammer]

Apparently the Government are looking at replacing the traditional May Day holiday. Bob Crow isn't happy about it.

 

Labour movement activists warned killjoy Prime Minister David Cameron today to "keep your hands off our May Day holiday."

 

They urged protests against the Tories' vindictive scheme to spoil the workers' extended weekend of celebrations by abolishing the May Day bank holiday.

 

Mr Cameron and his Cabinet of millionaires are hoping to make this Monday's May Day bank holiday one of the last.

 

Plans are afoot to abandon the holiday on the first Monday in May, and replace it with a holiday on St George's Day April 23, or the anniversary of the bloody Battle of Trafalgar on October 21.

 

Veteran Labour MP Dennis Skinner urged the labour movement to band together "to ensure that we keep the May Day flags flying as they do across the world."

 

Mr Skinner warned: "In sharp contrast to the pomp and circumstance and organised happiness around the royal wedding, the Tory establishment is now turning its attention to ruining the workers' traditional May Day celebrations.

 

"True to type, Cameron wants to create more unhappiness for working class people who are struggling to keep a job.

 

"He wants to stop them from enjoying the May Day bank holiday and from celebrating International Workers' Day along with people across Europe and around the world."

 

Rail union RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "The most important events this weekend are the annual May Day celebrations - not the bread and circuses that were rammed down people's throats."

 

Declared Mr Crow: "Forget all the diversions. The trade union and socialist focus is on marking International Workers' Day at a time when the working class is under unprecedented attack."

 

He warned that the Tories were not only attacking the workers, but were also gearing up for an assault on May Day itself.

 

"Send out the message to the Con-Dems and the bosses loud and clear - la lucha continua!" urged Mr Crow.

 

Left Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins, who spent today tramping the streets of Luton delivering election leaflets, accused the government of blatant right-wing tactics in seeking to ditch the May Day holiday.

 

Unite union general secretary Len McCluskey said: "The Tory attack on the May Day holiday is to be abhorred and it's another reminder that this government has scant regard for the working people of this country."

 

May Day was an accepted holiday in many countries to commemorate workers' struggles, said Mr McCluskey, who suggested an extra bank holiday in October during the "long stretch" between August and Christmas.

 

General union GMB general secretary Paul Kenny had a blunt message for the government of millionaires: "Keep your hands off our May Day. Keep your hands off workers' day."

 

Mr Kenny added: "May Day is an important celebration of the achievements of humanity. We have got to fight to save the bank holiday."

 

Communist Party of Britain general secretary Rob Griffiths said International Workers' Day celebrated "the commitment to solidarity, peace and socialism."

 

But a change to Trafalgar Day would be celebrating "the slaughter of seafarers in yet another battle in Britain's long and bloody history of imperialist wars."

 

Im pretty sure this story is over a month old but I cant really argue with the points I originally read that it will aid summer tourism. Every article ive read on it heavily leant on the idea that they were trying to cut the amount of bank holidays we have when in actual fact they arnt.

 

Do that many people on here actually get bank holidays off anymore? I know I dont.

[Loki]

Big News

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13277734

 

Hamas and Fatah sign a pact. Potentially a massive step forwards for the Middle East peace process.

[David]

Yeah, rather predictably not according to Israel.

[Loki]

I often wonder if the Israel would even know how to exist in a peaceful state. More and more, they seem to be becoming the obstacle to peace in that region rather than urging towards it. As a state borne out of conflict, perhaps it's just so deeply ingrained in their DNA that they can't let it go.

 

The Palestinians on the other hand seems to have taken on board the spirit of the Arab Spring and are making a unified, concerted effort to get back on track. Interesting developments.

[David]

The Palestinians on the other hand seems to have taken on board the spirit of the Arab Spring and are making a unified, concerted effort to get back on track. Interesting developments.

It's just my opinion of course, but I've always seen Israel as the aggressor in the situation between them and Palestine.

[The King Of Swing]

There is fault on both sides but Israel's (Government anyway) attitude at times indicates to me that they don't want peace at all, in fact the Israeli Government is so predictable these days I was actually reading that story earlier today and before Israel was even mentioned I knew they had probably kicked up a stink.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Yeah, rather predictably not according to Israel.

 

 

Hamas have said, on multiple occasions, that they want to see Israel wiped off the face of the planet (or words to that effect). So why would they see Hamas getting more political power as a step forward? Until Hamas give up their terror tactics (and maybe this will be the thing that gets them to) then I cant blame Israel for not wanting to cave in to the demands of the Palestinians.

 

edit: Thats not to say I find Israel innocent either.

Edited May 5, 2011 by ReturnOfTheMack

[WildSybianRider]

Nadine Dorries, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

 

When AV loses and the boundary changes kick in, I almost hope this type of lunatic legislation can get through; I'll invest all my money in dominatrix clubs, treatments for STDs and sexual assault therapy. I'll clean up when a generation of sexually repressed and confused kids all start raping each other.

[Loki]

Yeah, rather predictably not according to Israel.

 

 

Hamas have said, on multiple occasions, that they want to see Israel wiped off the face of the planet (or words to that effect). So why would they see Hamas getting more political power as a step forward? Until Hamas give up their terror tactics (and maybe this will be the thing that gets them to) then I cant blame Israel for not wanting to cave in to the demands of the Palestinians.

 

edit: Thats not to say I find Israel innocent either.

 

Away from the rhetoric that both sides use to bolster their popularity with their peoples, though, surely Israeli politicians are astute enough to realise that the only hope for a long-term solution to the problem is to be able to negotiate with a stable and legitimate Palestinian government?

 

Hamas are the equivalent of the IRA in this equation. Many mainstream politicians in the UK would have found it inconceivable back in the 70s and 90s that former IRA commanders would be holding political positions in a democratic Northern Ireland assembly.

 

Ultimately, the Israelis have a lot of ground to concede before this conflict is resolved. They are still massively in breach of the internationally recognised 1967 borders, having taken by force and by settlement creep much of Palestinian land. The situation has only worsened since 1995, when Rabin and Arafat actually shook hands over a peace deal. This is the closest the region came to a lasting peace, and what happened? Rabin was assasinated by a right-wing Israeli. The deal fell apart, the PLO fell apart and the Israelis were left without anyone to negotiate with.

 

This is the key for me - the Israelis must negotiate with whoever actually hold power/represents the will of the Palestinians. History shows that when they don't, even more right-wing groups (like Fatah initially and Hamas now) tend to gain ground.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

No I agree. But Hamas need to soften their stance. Using your IRA example, they werent given the positions (as far as I am aware) until the IRA had agreed a ceasefire.

Once Hamas stop the 'Israel must be destroyed' rhetoric and change it to a stance about the recovery of their lands then I would be behind them 100%. But I cant blame Israel for not wanting to back down while they are being threatened at this level. They are surrounded by nations that historically want to destroy them, they cant risk looking weak!

[Loki]

Someone's got to make the first move. Should it be the guys with all the tanks, helicopter gunships and gunboats, or the guys with the stones, petrol bombs and the odd RPG?

 

I think Hamas will, and are softening. A number of important Hamas clerics have already talked about the possibility of dropping the bit about not recognising the state of Israel. But they get absolutely no give at all from Israel, who are STILL BUILDING NEW ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS ON PALESTINIAN LAND! It's like fucking you up the arse without lube, and then refusing a reach-around.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Oh I 100% agree that the building is utterly stupid. Israel shouldnt have done anything with the land, at the very least once international law was against them.

[Magnum]

Im pretty sure this story is over a month old but I cant really argue with the points I originally read that it will aid summer tourism. Every article ive read on it heavily leant on the idea that they were trying to cut the amount of bank holidays we have when in actual fact they arnt.

 

Do that many people on here actually get bank holidays off anymore? I know I dont.

 

Unless it's an extra one, they can stick that October bank holiday up their arse. I'd imagine a fair bit of money goes into the leisure industry on a scorching hot May bank holiday with all the people wanting to enjoy the sunshine in a beer garden or take their kids down the local fairground. No fucker wants to go out on a miserable wet day in bloody October.

[David]

It would appear that Nick Clegg has decided he's not playing the nice guy any longer.

 

Nick Clegg has vowed to block the government's planned NHS reforms unless the package put forward by the health secretary, Andrew Lansley, is improved.

 

The deputy prime minister said unless there were "substantial, significant changes" to Lansley's proposals to hand commissioning powers to GPs and extend private provision of NHS services, he would tell Liberal Democrat MPs and peers to join Labour in voting them down.

 

The warning came as Clegg set out his plans to be more assertive within the coalition government in response to Lib Dem losses in last week's elections.

 

He told BBC1's Andrew Marr show he would "never, never, never" join the Conservatives, adding: "I will be carried out in my coffin as a card-carrying Liberal Democrat."

 

Clegg accepted that his party's traditional supporters were anxious about the programme of spending cuts the Lib Dems had signed up to, but insisted the coalition's efforts to reduce the deficit must continue.

 

Despite the loss of more than 700 English councillors and the bulk of his representation in the Scottish parliament - as well as the overwhelming defeat on electoral reform - Clegg insisted the Lib Dems still had "a platform from which we can recover".

 

Earlier the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, urged disgruntled Lib Dems to jump ship from the coalition and join him in opposing the Conservatives, a call dismissed as "tactics" by Clegg.

 

The Lib Dem leader told Marr: "I accept that there is real pressure on us to explain to our traditional voters why we are doing this and why it is good for the country. Of course there are lessons to be learned, and the lesson I have learned listening to people on the doorsteps is that people want a louder Liberal Democrat voice in government."

 

He insisted the "pause" in the health and social care bill announced by Lansley would not simply amount to a cosmetic consultation. "It is absolutely not just a pause for the sake of it. This is not a cosmetic exercise. There will be substantial, significant changes to the legislation," he said.

 

"As far as government legislation is concerned, no bill is better than a bad one, and I want to get this right. Protecting the NHS, rather than undermining it, is now my number one priority. I am not going to ask Liberal Democrat MPs and peers to proceed with legislation on something as precious and cherished - particularly for Liberal Democrats - as the NHS unless I personally am satisfied that what these changes do is an evolutionary change in the NHS and not a disruptive revolution."

 

Clegg said critics of Lansley's plans were right to warn that changes must not be pushed through too fast and GPs should not be forced to take on commissioning roles before they are ready: "What you will see in this legislation are clear guarantees that you are not going to have back-door privatisation of the NHS."

 

He insisted it was not the time for "tit for tat politics in the government [with] ministers fighting like cats and dogs", and said there would be no rewriting of the coalition agreement.

 

The Liberal Democrat deputy leader, Simon Hughes, echoed Clegg's warning that the party would seek to water down the health reforms. "I don't think we can go ahead with the plans as they are in the bill," he said. "It needs fundamental change."

 

Hughes accused Lansley of devising proposals that were not included in the coalition agreement struck last May. "The secretary of state for health came up with a plan which wasn't what we agreed in the coalition agreement," he told the BBC's Politics Show. "At the time people argued internally in government that it was a reasonable settlement, but I think everything we have seen shows that it is not. So let's go back to the drawing board."

 

MPs will discuss the NHS on Monday after Labour forced an opposition day debate in the Commons.

 

Shadow health secretary, John Healey, said: "For all his tough talk on the NHS, Nick Clegg is up to his neck in the Tory-led government's health bill and the Lib Dems have backed it so far at every stage in parliament.

 

"I'm glad Lib Dems are starting to make the arguments Labour has been making since the early autumn. This is a bad bill and if Nick Clegg is serious he must spell out exactly what his bottom line is.

 

"But in truth this is David Cameron's call, not Nick Clegg's. If the prime minister wants to prove to NHS patients and staff that his 'pause' is not just spin, then he must shelve the bill as it stands and make radical changes to his NHS reorganisation plans."

Source: The Guardian

 

I know that Clegg is basically trying to rally the troops after what has been a terrible week for the party, but it surely has to be seen as too little too late?