Reznor

I think it's ruddy awful, and that's even with the nostalgia glasses on as I adored it at the time. I got a big shcok when I went back to it after buying the vid a decade later.

I think I've actually ranted about it before, but a couple of passable main events, and an excellent (but dubiously booked) tag title match is about all it's got going for it.

Savage/Dusty was nothing, It was hard to care much about the whole Sapphire deal. Tornado/Perfect was a mess. Either do a squash like Summerslam '88, or have a good match - this was neither. Jake/Bad news was dire and an awful anticlimax with not a rat in sight! Warlord/Santana wasn't a patch on Barbarian/Tito at 'Mania, and obviously Rockers/P&G wasn't much of an opener due to the injury, not that they can be blamed for that.

Even the normally excellent pre-show TV special was shite for this one, headlined by Hacksaw v Earthquake in one of the most brutal matches you'll ever set eyes on.

I enjoyed the build, i'll give it that, but on the night, it was pretty much all throwaway guff. Maybe the worst Summerslam before I lost track of them after 2002.

What am i missing with it?

Sounds like Mascarita Dorada signed with the WWE at some point and it's only now just coming to light.

God knows what they'll do with him. Amazing little dude though, i'm sure they'll manage something fun.

I said I preferred Rockers Shawn because you could pull out any Rockers match and it's guaranteed class. Solo Shawn from 91-95 was all over the place. Yes, he delivered on the 'big stage' (vs Razor) but all his matches with the greats of the period - Flair, Savage, Hennig, Bret, Tito, Martel etc. - were underwhelming. 96- 97 is where he peaked for me (him v Jarret is an unheralded gem). Post-comback he was way more consistent but he never had that bite, and he and his offence looked like shit.

Disagree strongly. Survivor Series v Bret & European Rampage v Savage were great matches, the WM8 opener was fine, Martel was a novelty gimmick match, and his only televised Flair match was from when he was still a Rocker. Of all that, you have a valid point in one instance imo.

In addition to those, you have all the Jannetty stuff, dragging Hacksaw of all people to a couple of good matches, other less high profile matches v Razor (VHS and RAW), the famous Action Zone tag, good matches with Bob Backlund, Virgil(!), arguably the best match of WM9 v Tatanka as well as a fun Superstars match a few weeks earlier. He also had a good match with the Kid, and became a pinball to make the likes of Luger and Crush look great - the list goes on....

He was great in his first couple of years as a heel, particularly 1993 when he really came into his own. His body of work was still fantastic then, the only difference is he was in a different role - and his versatility at being so adept whatever side he was on is testament to how great he was.

You also have to consider how programming was different in the early 90s to how it was in the latter half of the decade. With a dozen PPVs per year and more star v star matches on weekly tv, you're obviously going to have far more opportunity to put more good stuff out on screen, especially when you're climbing your way up the ladder during those years therefore you're usually limited to 5-10 minute matches outside of PPV.

Some pretty painful news here concerning Xpac but apparently he is in hospital suffering from a "ripped ass" which he sustained whilst doing a bronco buster and apparently it's the second time it's happened to him.

 

eWrestling news link

How? I mean physically how?? I honestly can't picture how a bronco buster could result in that kind of injury!?

He used to do that spot where the guy in the corner put a foot up and it made you wince. Maybe it was something like that, I guess that's capable of ripping some ass.

X-Pac always took the most brutal looking low blows though, remember that one onto the cage door against Jericho too. Feck knows how he managed all that, must've had a codpiece or something.

The Blitzkrieg mention is spot on. He is genuinely one of my favourite WCW midcarders ever and could have been one of the best cruiserweights of all time, but managed to do something that many wrestlers never do, hang it up in their prime.

 

Every bone in my body aches for a Blitzkrieg return to wrestling.

Steady now, he was just a fun, flashy spot monkey, only notable for being about the only one who could do the insane twisty stuff at that time with Mr Aguila toning things down in the WWF and nobody knowing of Venum.

He wasn't exactly the second coming of Rey Jr.

Raven could perhaps have been a bigger deal in WWE, but arrived at a time when the roster was just ridiculously packed with talent. It's not difficult to see why they didn't push him any higher up the card back then. Nearly everyone else I think did about as well as could be expected. Not many strong talkers on the list at all.

Yeah, I'm not really taking circumstances and politics into account, just a general "success against level of talent" gauge, as I thought Raven was brilliant in everything he done. Johnny Polo just as much. loved scotty Flamingo too. Good wrestler, great character(s), and a great talker. I even came across him on a few youtubed vids from Portland and he was such a talent back then which must've been no later than 90-91.

I suppose you can't knock his spell in ECW as it allowed him to develop the character, but he really was too good for that level. Spending over 3 years there during his prime years was just a waste. Then when he finally did get to a big promotion, he seemed to be doing well for a while, until he won the belt, lost it the next night and it all seemed to go downhill from there. A year later, he was getting over pretty well as a babyface, until he fucked his shoulder up and that was that. Had the circumstances been different, that might've been the time when he would have had his best chance of pushing on to another level.

By the time he got to the WWF, he was never going to be world title material or anything, but he was good enough to at least maintain that level he was at around WM17-Backlash over his whole few years in the WWF. It's always reported that Vince hated him, possibly for being a bad influence on Shane if some of the stories are to be believed. Whatever the reasons though, it wasn't for a lack of talent. He had the charisma and mic skills to easily do well in a higher profile spot, even if it took another gimmick change.

WWE.com feature - 15-superstars-who-shouldve-been-bigger-deals

 

Jim Mitchell / Sinister Minister

British Bulldog

Ed 'The Bull' Gantner

Brad Armstrong

Terry Taylor

Saturn

Dr Tom Prichard

Bam Bam Bigelow

Britzkrieg

Mike Awesome

Hakusi

Chris Candido

Raven

Magnum TA

Jindrak & O'Haire

 

Safe to say that's a predictably unpredictable list there. Never even heard of Ed Gantner.

It's a strange one alright. Raven definitely, Bam Bam, and possibly O'Haire are about the only ones I'd really agree with. None of the others, whether good or bad, strike me as being massive missed opportunity for one reason another (of the ones i'm familiar with anyway - haven't heard of this bull fellow, and have saw so little of the Sinister Minister, I can't even remember my thoughts!). Magnum surely Isn't even a valid answer for the question, and there's a couple that, on the contrary, i'd say have overachieved - Mike Awesome being the obvious one.

A lot of them were good, some even great - like Bulldog and Armstrong. I loved Hakushi too, but it's hard to see how much higher up the ladder they could all realistically have climbed.

I'll have a go at the States thing (using worked hometowns people are billed from) ...

 

Couldn't do it, but not bad.

That's a cracking attempt to be fair.

You'll be kicking yourself with 2 or 3 though - i'm thinking Maine, wisconsin and Wyoming...

 

Whilst not the most random, weirdest or quirkiest image in this thread by some way, I'm really glad this one has popped up, as it's something of an iconic image for me. I seem to recall it being featured prominently on a piece of merchandise I had - may have been a double-sticker in one of the sticker books, may have been featured on one of those collage wallchart things the Daily Mirror did c. 1992, may have even been on one of those odd WWF combs with a picture of a wrestler in action at the top (to this day I have the one with the Warrior pressing a moustachioed jobber in oddly Savage-esque tights).

 

Anyhow, for about 20 years now, I've been oddly fascinated by the masked man Hawk is manhandling - who was he, both gimmick-wise and in reality? Even as a kid I knew that, as I didn't recognise him from TV or anywhere other than in that picture he wasn't a 'superstar', but equally he looked very different to the other guys who got beat up on (ironically) Superstars every week. And how could a man who walked around wearing a wicked looking skull mask with "Agony" written on his tights not be a superstar??

 

Anyway, can anyone settle my curiosity all these years later?

It's one of the Executioners

Probably Barry Hardy.

No worries, reading that back it sounds like i'm just jumping on the bandwagon sticking the knife in. No harm done or anything, it's not a huge deal - just a bit ugly and I've saw it that often (despite never deliberately looking for it) that it's almost imprinted in my mind.

I was into Japan and FMW around that time, it was such a pisser as he was great. He's one of the few guys frmo over there I still have an interest in even though that phase of my wrestling watching has long since passed.

I always found it a bit strange that WCW were never interested in him, especially as they brought in other FMW guys like Gedo for a cup of coffee and hyped up the possibility of fat boy Fuyuki too. I'm sure I read he was hanging out backstage at a taping once also.

Not only that, it's one of the most common clips out there; obviously not 'cool', but also about as far from a 'find' as it gets.

No mention of Rey's knee possibly being fucked again?

You'd have to suspect that'll be him about through if so

It says "Arena Mexico" on the poster. It was just a gimmick night.

It never actually happened as it was supposed to be a charity night, but the kids charity as well as the British Embassy publically withdrew support at the last minute, so CMLL must've been at it.

Would've been interesting to see what they'd come up with too, considering there's nothing remotely British about anything in CMLL, other than prelim guy Hooligan having a union jack on his mask many moons ago.

Knowing CMLL, it probably would've amounted to a red phonebox being dumped in the aisleway.

My top Virgil pic was the one someone created in that "what if things worked out differently" thread a few years ago on here

Probably quite common knowledge, but was the Wrestlemania 13 card always looking like it ended up? I know it was meant to be Bret vs. HBK, so where did Austin fit in as the Rumble winner?

I don't think anyone's really sure, as I can remember trying to find out WM13 plans a while ago too without much luck..

It looked like Sid/Taker was always the idea too, so it wouldn't have been against either of those two.

In late 96, the tentative plan was probably for Austin/Pillman but obviously he took longer to come back than initially thought.

Vader/Mick/DBS/Owen were all sorta doing their own thing (although that tag match should've been split into two singles matches!). Ahmed was still occupied by the Nation, and Goldust by HHH, so it's hard to see where Austin came into it, as you'd imagine he'd definitely be booked after winning the rumble.

I'd guess his most likely opponent may actually have been The Rock for the IC title as that Sultan nonsense was pretty hastily put together.

It looks like Matt Borne to me, not saying you are wrong though as I don't recall Charlie Fulton.

Aye, i'm sure your right now you mention him. I forgot he had that blonde mane back around WM1.

The other guy did look a bit similar with the bleached hair and dark beard.

I recognise Greg Valentine and John Studd, but does anyone know who the other guys are?

The lumberjack on the right seems to be Barry O, Randy Orton's uncle.

Aye, and the other guy was called Charlie Fulton I think

And it looks like Tito putting on the Figure 4

Currently watching the year of WCW Nitro 1996 and really love Jerichos theme tune. I can't pinpoint what I like so much about it but its brilliant

Absolutely, it's fun. So 80s.

Somehow it ended up on the worst list on that top 50 thread on here a few years ago too. Nuts.

I never really liked many WCW Entrance themes but Greg Valentines was great (Currently watching Nitro in around October 1996)

He had his own music?

I'd have had him down as a stick on for the Blonds theme they ended up giving about every 2nd curtain jerker

Nice one, it's neat seeing those sort of pics.

I never realised that the old and new Headshrinkers overlapped. That would have been a cool trio

Wouldn't have thought they'd take Reno Riggins halfway across the world either!

You can't judge a book by it's cover and all that, but Stevie Richards always looks as though he's just a really cool guy. I have no idea if he is or isn't, but i'd be pretty surprised if it turned out he's supposed to be a bit of an arsehole.

Either way, he was great as a lower card/comedy guy, always made a good go of whatever he was given to work with.

EDIT - here's a question : why the fuck was Duggan protected so much??

 

Year after year, he never lost properly on TV. Between 'Mania IV and the first King of the Ring PPV (when he was well and truly on his way out) he barely did a single high profile job on TV for five fucking years. NOBODY got the protection Duggan did, even fucking Hogan and Warrior got pinned more often in that same period. Every Survivors he was in, he got disqualified. When he lost the crown to Macho Man, they showed the finish on an update segment (ropey finish that it was) but that was it, so that barely counts. Wrestling the Undertaker? No problems, disqualification will do ya. Building up rising superstar Yokozuna for the big push and title win? Well, you can send Duggan to hospital, that's fine, but PIN him? No chance, fat boy. Two goes around with Intercontinental Champion Shawn Michaels? How about a count-in win to hype the rematch where get gets beat next week? Sure... beat by disqualification, natch. What do you mean, DQ in a lumberjack match doesn't make sense? Duggan can't lose!

 

So yeah... five years of being allowed to look invincible, then a loss to Bam Bam at King of the Ring (which nobody remembers compared to the final), two months of the occasional Superstars squash, then finally a PROPER loss to Yoko at the SummerSlam Spectacular (by which point Yokozuna is ridiculously above Duggan's level and WWF Champion anyway). Then he's gone. What was the point? Were those foam 2x4s such a hot seller that the WWF couldn't compromise him???

 

Didn't he also get some crazy protected booking in WCW too? I remember him beating Stunning Steve Austin in about 2 seconds.

Aye, and to make matters so much worse, it was when WCW fans were sitting down to their PPV (Fall brawl 94) expecting to see Steamboat/Austin, hot on the heels of two or three crackers at recent shows.

I never really noticed that pattern so much with Duggan but it's an accurate observation. Who knows really, I guess part of it could be down to the fact he became a bit of a novelty. He was rarely in any kind of meaningful feud or title programme, he was such a lump, and it would be pretty difficult for his opponent to look particularly good coming out of any matches with him. He would barely bump (and when he did it looked absurd), and wouldn't be able/willing to take most moves. Maybe he was just kept in his own little bubble with the impressive record to make sure he kept his popularity, especially considering his gimmick. And I guess that if he just didn't want to job, his popularity (and friends?) gave him enough clout and leverage to refuse without being fired.

I hated the fucker, but I can see the appeal somewhat with his charisma, that jingoistic shit he was all about, and that ability to suck in the sympathy by looking all pathetic and pitiful whilst being beat up despite being a big fat bloke. All I quite liked about him were his big cartoonish punches. To me he was horrid though, moreso now when we're 'smart' and can see that it was all "take, take, take" with him. And as last years thread established, he was also fucking bogging.

I'm going to assume the Uncensored '97 Heat/TPE match is among that little lot. "Rag tagging on his belly welly" and Dusty going into hysterics at the sight of a cookie sheet or pizza pan. MARVELLOUS.

Absolutely. I don't think it's possible to listen to the commentary of that match without being close to tears!

AND HERE IT IS!!!

You know what would've been one of the greatest things ever - IF Dusty was commentating on that hardcore lucha match with parka and co in mid 99!

Yeah pretty much, although I did see the Maestro pre-WCW with them once so I don't know how they played that off.

 

The best thing about the 'WWF invasion' was changing most of their rudo midgets to WWF gimmicks. We had mini Vader, Mankind, Goldust and even Paul Bearer for a short while!

 

Somewhat connected to this, and because it's just fun to think of, IWRG's now got a Mini Bastista, or at least did have for the Christmas period. You can get a look at him for 6:37 (not in action though, sadly): Mini Batista

Ha, loads of effort went into that one, looks more like Dick Togo!. Reading that wee typo just reminded me that there's a trio called Los Bastardo's going around the indies just now.

Watching a load of 1996/97 WCW PPVs as of late, and Dusty Rhodes is such a tonne of fun on commentary. I always remember he used to be savaged by the Internet community for things like not putting the midcard athletic types over, taking the piss out of all the exotic moves and their names, and basically not ticking the boxes for what a commentator's supposed to do. I dunno, maybe they're right, but regardless, what a bunch of soulless, miserable fuckers. He was a great laugh, even moreso when he was getting all excited, laughing his way though matches - like during all those crazy brawls with weird plunder - rubber sharks, toilet seats etc. That (over)hyped Benoit/Sullivan match in the mens bogs or Sherri/Col Parker for instance are a couple of good examples too...

I could listen to him slabbering on all night. He's far too funky for a white man!

He was infinitely more entertaining than everyone's favourite, The Brain, at that point in time.