Reznor

 

I realised, watching the Beast in the East card on the award-winning WWE Network, that I still call John Cena’s finisher the “F-U”. Cole referred to it as the Attitude Adjustment, I was like “What?” but then, “Oh, yeah. It was renamed years ago.”

you are not the only one. To me, The Attitude Adjustment is Lex Luger's pile driver from 1991.

 

 

I can't think of that term without hearing the Hank Williams song in reference to it on that early 90s wrestling radio show you could receive through BSkyB. Anyone else have even have half a clue what i'm talking about as i don't think I've ever heard any mention of the station since. They also used to regularly affirm that Arn Anderson was God, so they can't have had the worst taste.

Summerslam 90 is an absolute belter, arguably the most underrated WWE PPV ever. I stuck it on for the millionth time to watch Dusty's heartbreak so wonderfully played, but I ended up watching the entire bastard thing. Well paced, no real duds, and a shitload to grab onto from a not-particularly-fertile time for the company. And Roddy Piper is a bigoted mouthy cunt on commentary and still can't ruin it. Is it just my nostalgia or does everybody else think it's the bees knees?

 

It was my second PPV so it's got the nostalgia thing in it's favour, but even that can't redeem it for me. The action's short and shit. It's a PPV of memorable promos only, and it stands out a mile in between the two fantastic Summerslams either side of it.

 

It would've been a fun extended SNME, but for a PPV, nah, it wasn't up to much. Outwith the tag title match, it looked like everyone was bringing GAB '91 levels of effort.

Is it just me who looks at Balor and thinks "his WrestleMania entrance is going to be out of this world?" 

 

I can't see them going to all that effort for a battle royal.

That must be it. I seem to remember him rolling guys up off the ropes like bob backlund would do for his finisher in the wwf in late 92.

 

I think you're on the right lines, it was almost like an abominal stretch set up rolled through into a leglock. It looked weird, Mexican and naturally fantastic. Maybe even better than the Gibson leglock!

 

I recently watched a match on Dailymotion vs Kato where he did it, so it's probably still up if you're looking for some evidence.

Cool topic, which will inevitably lead to another fun show, as per usual.

 

Some good shouts and loads that I echo; The no-selling of after effects the following night; finisher overkill; finishers that are easier to do that normal moves (Big Show was the fair example used, but I also thought Henrys finisher felt odd when he’d also use bodyslams beforehand)

 

Some right mental ones too mind you, some of which make me wonder how some folk even became fans of American wrestling in the first place. Hating ref distractions and Irish whips – seriously? Having a problem with Virgil/Dibiase is another one I can't understand.

 

Totally agree on the bewilderment at the hate for Bulldogs powerslam. That was one of the best finishes around. It was snappy, looked spectacular & hurty, was an impressive feat of strength on big guys, and often created drama because it was still escapable by grabbing onto the ropes. On the other hand, I’m with whoever hated the Angle slam. That just always looked shit. No impact at all, it always looked like the guy taking it was being delicately placed on the mat with all the care in the world taken to avoid any discomfort.

 

Anyhow. Some that spring to my mind;

 

- Inconsistency in selling finishers depending on the situation. In a singles match, they’ll normally keep you down for 2 or 3. In a multiman match, the receiver will immediately roll out of the ring as everybody hits their finisher. Even worse, sometimes if it’s the first part of a two part finish, they’ll get right up to take the 2^nd part. For example, Kane popping up from the RKO recently to take the Spear, or the old DX joint finisher where the superkick wouldn’t even knock the bloke over. At the other end of the spectrum, you have someone taking a finisher in a non-match setting then acting unconscious for about 5 minutes whilst the attacker cuts a promo.

 

- Savage vs Crush at Wrestlemania X. I’ve always been quite vocal about this, it may be my least favourite ‘Mania match ever, it’s certainly the most underwhelming considering prior expectations. I’ve explained how the gimmick stip is just horrid, and 100% incompatible with creating any kind of heated, action packed, dramatic and naturally flowing wrestling match. For some reason, most people seem to at least like it yet I’ve never heard a single reason why. It’s a complete mystery to me.

 

- Diamond cutter-type moves. 1), for the way the recipients bounce round onto their back, 2) for all the shitty over-elaborate mid match variations you see (thankfully not as common in WWE, but rife everwhere else); and 3), as part of a wider point along with loads of other moves, that they’ve been established as finishers and that’s how they should remain

 

- Modern ‘heels’. More specifically, how they work like babyfaces to get pops, not heat. it;s a general grievance, but the most high profile offender right now is Seth Rollins when it comes to PPV. On TV, he’s fine, plays the character well, acts the cunt, is quite unlikeable etc. But come the big show, it’s all thrown out the window, and it’s workrate city. No way should heels be routinely flipflopping all over the place and wowing the crowd - and the only way a 200lb drip of a heel should be competitive against bigger guys is by shiftiness, cheating and being a weasel, not being technically the equal of the babyface. Because of that, I didn’t particularly enjoy that much lauded Rumble 3way . if that;s how he's going to be, the sooner he turns babyface, the better. 

 

- Jericho and Miz’s Trunks and kickpads attire. Both deserve special mention for having two of the worst, most ill-suited appearances in wrestling. To compound matters, both their prior looks were infinitely better and more distinguished. If you want to go for that image, make sure it’s relevent to the character you’re trying to get over, and that you’re a ripped, hard looking bastard in order to pull it off - like Ken Shamrock, not a couple of ill-defined, barely toned fairies.

 

- That spot where refs kick heels hands when they’re grabbing the ropes on a sunset flip. Just a complete headscratcher, entirely illogical and off-putting.

 

- I also hate modern, self-entitled crackpot fans who demand that everything’s booked to suit them, without having the self-awareness to realise what a red-neck they are, nor the brains to understand that if every single result went their way and Daniel Bryan or whoever was booked to win every match, it would soon get boring as fuck, and you’d never have moments like the ending of WMXXX for example. I could rant for pages about these moonhowlers, but it’s almost a topic within itself, and thankfully we’re mostly all ok on here, so it probably goes without saying that we all despair at those types.

 

- Non-traditional Indie wrestling too. Detest it. I was going to go into detail of specifics, but it was too lengthy and covered practically everything about this curious and weird phenomenon, so I’ll just say I hate it all generally.

 

- And last, but certainly not least….Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Just about the most loathsome wrestler ever shat into creation.

 

I hated him as a kid before I even understood all his jingoistic bollocks, so you can imagine how my thoughts were compounded when I did start to comprehend the yank bullshit that his act was based around. In addition to that, he was a fat, lazy lump who never put on exciting matches (apart from that one with Vader), made his opponents look like crap and gave them nothing, appeared to be mildly cretinous, never fucking lost, needed a weapon, looked like a pathetic oversized baby when being beat up, wouldn’t bump, tucked his gut into his pants, and had the shittiest finisher ever. Hansen or Bradshaw he wasn’t. 

 

If all that wasn’t enough, he stunk. Literally. Not that I’ve ever had the misfortune to be so close to him, but you just knew he was fucking rotten. I reckon that in pics with decent resolution, you can probably see the shitflies swarming around him if you look closely. Any mental image you have of him is always accompanied by those wavy stink lines rising off him

 

Yep, Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

Just watched me some Barry Windham vs Too Cold Scorpio for the NWA title from 1993... Underdog Scorpio was made to look a massive threat, hitting loads of big, flashy moves on the champion, only for Windham to keep kicking out by a whisker, surviving the storm and ultimately winning. The match did a load for both guys. Awesome and effective simplicity.

 

If it was the Clash one, I just watched that show recently myself, and aye, it was a cracking match. Like you'd expect anything less from those two, mind...

 

That whole show was fantastic btw, with that, the 6 man, and Flairs return in the 2/3 falls match. Hell, Regal even managed to drag a good match out of Buff. After the Jan 92 one, that summer 93 Clash may have been my fave from all the 20 or so I rewatched earlier this year.

 

Sad to think of all that unfilled potential between those two. Their careers were so underwhelming, relative to their talent.

That just reminded me of someone from here doing a really funny photoshop of Virgil with miles of queuing fans a few years back, I think it was some 'Wrestling alternate reality' thread or something. Anyone got the pic or was it recent enough to still be in the searchable archive?

I know it's an integral part of wrestling, but the Irish whip really is stupid. I'd love to see a savvy wrestler who can't be gently tossed to some relatively springy ropes, and instead just stops dead and twats his opponent for taking the piss

It is stupid, but it can't annoy anyone because it's been normal for as long as any of us can remember. It's just one of those thing we accept as logical in the parallel universe of pro wrestling.

 

It's also a great retort to rein in those bores who start moaning about stuff during matches that isn't realistic.

 

I have more of a problem with the stupid looking modern reversals where they feel the need to do a little twisty ballroom dance move instead of a good, old fashioned swivel, Jimmy Powers style!

Christ, there is quite some whinging and nit picking going on here. Never heard anyone complain when Bret Hart would hit a tope or pescado, nor did anyone complain when Jericho used his deadlift powerbomb. Christ, Scott Steiner used to pop off frankensteiners like they were going out of fashion, yet there was no backlash against his suplex-throwing character. Simmer down.

 

Not whinging, it's called discussion. It's what I thought these sort of places were generally for. Just commenting on a gif which lead me onto a wider point. I clearly expressed myself badly because at least 2 out of your three examples have no relevance to what i was trying to say.

 

If i was going to whinge, i'd probably have started out with "christ..."

Surely having the ability to be able to pull out both is a great thing?

Sadly, in 21st century wrestling it seemingly is. But it loses sight of what the whole purpose of highflying was to begin with; that is, smaller, weaker guys using it as their only way to compete with stronger guys. It was high risk so it was a necessity, not a choice. If you crashed and burned, you were fucked. That all helped the flyers be seen as vulnerable underdogs which brought fan sympathy and support.

 

That’s just 20th century wrestling logic at its most basic, and it’s what created so much of the story during matches. In that bubble, nobody would primarily use insane highflying if they were so freakishly strong that they could clearly go toe to toe with anybody and wrestle like Doug Furnas or Dr Death if they wanted to.

 

It's like Vader - logically he should never have done a moonsault, but the fact that he can is as cool as fuck, and people get extra impressed when he does it because you'd not expect it from a bloke his shape.

I was never a great fan of Vader doing a moonsault either, but it’s not really comparable at all. Vader was a strong guy, so he wrestled like a strong guy. He never changed his style to become a crazy flipper as that would have been stupid. He used that moonsault as his ultimate, Raw on the Megadrive finisher for special occasions which enhanced his fearsome aura. He never busted that out willy-nilly until he became desperate when he was a bum in 97/98. 

 

I definitely don’t like seeing too much of it, but there’s nothing illogical about a big guy showing agility. As you say, it may have been cool that Vader could do a moonsault (importantly, as a last resort when all else failed), just like Bam Bam doing a cartwheel, or Goldberg with that backflip. On the other hand, it’s entirely illogical to base your whole offence around flipping and flying, taking risk after risk as a matter of routine when you don’t need to.

 

That Neville spot was jaw-dropping. Such an unbelievable athlete.

 

If you’re looking at it from a real-world point of view, sure it’s impressive. But there will undoubtedly have been many wrestlers over the years who were strong enough to do such a feat or similar, but never done so because it would have made no sense, would have messed up the character, and would have been a nightmare to create much in the way of compelling in-ring stories.

 

It’s just what wrestling’s become, I guess. I saw it a few weeks ago when I watched that lucha underground show too, when Prince Puma done similar to the bloke from High Voltage. In some ways, that was even worse as it was the bloated fellow who was being put over as having the strength of a bear, but Puma wanted to be BraveStarr so tried to upstage him.

 

Bottom line to me is, if you’re demonstrating such strength, that should be what defines you, what you’re packaged as, and what you base your style around. Highflyers just shouldn’t have that ability, otherwise they wouldn’t need to be a highflyer in the first place. If your character is that of a superstrong midget, wrestle like Benoit or something. Wrestlers should be well refined, they shouldn't be doing everything just because they can imo.

 

I'm away for a Hovis loaf now  

Seems a bit pointless and illogical to be such a crazy highflyer if you can do all the powerhouse stuff.

 

That's modern wrestling for you, I guess.

Wrestle War 92, or for the best PPV ever Great American Bash 1989..........

Don't do that or you'll never make it to the good stuff at the end! Lightheavyweight match aside, it's practically all horseshit until the big one (no, i'm not forgetting one!). I guess watching the home release eases things a bit, but it's still a slog.

 

GAB 89 is the pinnacle with the only downside being that if you watch it to begin with, it's all downhill thereafter. In an ideal world, GAB should be watched as part of following weekly TV chronologically throughout 1989 imo, as WCW/NWA was so fantastic during that time.

 

I've been going through the first 20 or so Clashes since the turn of the year. Not on the network though, they're all up in decent quality on one of the streaming sites. They're all good fun, even when the matches aren't racking up the snowflakes. WCW usually tried to pack loads into them, so they tended to be a bit condensed compared to full PPVs, with quicker matches that got straight to the point with little wasted time. It wasn't a bad thing because the result was they were really easy to watch and the time flew by, but they still brought a nice mix of good-to-great matches, stories and angles, competitive squashes, and exposure to practically the whole roster. And you still got the odd genuine PPV classic in amongst them, like Dustin/mystery guy vs Enforcers, and quite a few in '89. They also looked great - until Watts came in anyway.

 

They were roughly every quarter and gave a good snapshot of that time, so if you get them on the network, imo they'd be quite a good place to start for a fun overview of what was happening at the time.

Beating Ziggler doesn't mean shite.

It would be extremely funny if he did it in a manner similar to how Sheamus beat him a few years earlier though!

Something that just popped into my head- the point has been made before that John Cena's run on top of WWE has been longer than Rock or Austin, but looking at their careers as a whole- Cena has actually had a longer career than Stone Cold!

 

Austin: 1989-2003

Cena: 1999-2015

It's impressive how quickly Austin appeared to grasp the whole wrestling game. Even in his earliest days in WCW in 1991, you'd have had him down as a seasoned veteran. There can't be many guys who reached such a decent level in such a short space of time.

I watched this a few months back for the first time in around 20 years and thought exactly the same thing

I also watched this a few months back and I think you're a couple of masochists! It's still as grim watching with 2014 eyes as it was a decade or more ago imo.

 

I even buy the suspicions that it maybe wasn't only the crowd protesting throughout that show too. The wrestling was almost entirely mailed in from start to end, not helped by some of the craziest booking and matchmaking imagineable. If you're being generous, some of it could possibly be considered inoffensive & forgettable midcard fare as opposed to flat out rank-rottenness. You can get away with that when the big showcase matches deliver to redeem things and make it somewhat memorable, but without that, it left the whole event feeling completely flat.

 

It's unfortunate as it could've been great with the originally planned main event and the rest of the card falling into place around it, helped by a motivated roster. Switching the daft and random scaffold match for a plain old (and more logical) Eaton/Austin TV title match would've been a decent idea too.

 

The few small thing it did have in its favour included aesthetics, as the WCW style of presentation was still about a year from turning to shit. It looked great with the decent crowd, good camera work, lighting and red ring apron.

 

Ultimately though, if it's not the worst PPV ever, it's certainly down there amongst them.

Undertaker prototypes Old School.

 

http://i.imgur.com/R19WL28.gif

 

PS. check out Bam Bam getting his clock cleaned.

He actually used that in the WWF once, to beat Tugboat. 

 Who comes out to the ring shouting 'FELLA'? It's like Wade Barrett coming out shouting 'MAAAATE'

Fortunately, I don't watch very often these days, but when I do, that 'Fella' shit's an awful bugbear of mine. It's ridiculous beyond belief. They've just picked out an utterly meaningless, irrelevant bit of lingo that Sheamus just so happens to use, with absolutely no context for it. It's about as lazy as marketing gets and he looks and sounds absurd coming out shouting it and having it plastered over his clothes.

My gripe with the steel cage door opening is that it goes against the whole idea of having a steel cage match in the first place. You have both guys spend 10/15 minutes trying to climb over the top and then they suddenly decide to just open the door. Never understood it.

 

 

Cage match rules are pretty stupid and inconsistent at the best of times though. Winning by running away and escaping goes against the whole concept and reason for throwing two guys in cage. It's essentially a cowardly, weaselly act, only apt for heels. They should always have the option of pins/submissions imo and that's what the babyfaces should be going for.

 

The slingshot catapult's such a classic move, an absolute staple of american wrestling that should never be consigned to history. The Mexican variant minus the turnbuckle bump with the recipient (most notably Fuerza Guerrera) just flying halfway across the ring, is great also.

Dolph Ziggler would probably be a WCW guy, strikes me as Johnny B Badd type is hyped as having potential for years and years and never doing anything to prove it. Also dull and bland.

Johnny B Badd was anything but dull and bland. He was a natural showman, and Larry Duff-esque in being tremendous fun, especially by the time he had gained more experience and became such a good, well rounded wrestler by 95-96.

Sgt Craig Pitbull Pittman steps into the octagon, 2012.

 

When I was watching a load of 95 WCW last year before all those channels were removed, I found Pittman to actually be one of the standouts. I was quite surprised as I can't remember ever hearing much positive about him, in fact I thought he was one of those guys generally regarded as being a bit embarrassing. But he was a lot of fun in every appearance with his unorthodox style and moves, added to his good look, and character work which was convincing, entertaining, and well, pretty great actually. Some mad promos too, which is always a positive. He went backwards when he went with Teddy Long and turned babyface then jtts in '96 , but I totally dug his whole '95 schtick.

Not many wrestlers back in the late 80s and early 90s, outside of those vying for IC and World Titles, were putting on matches that would be appreciated by fans of workrate today. I think part of the reason Jake took such a less is more approach was precisely because he was such a good talker, and that could get him all the reactions he needed for his spot on the card. After all, why work fans into a frenzy by knocking your pan in and damaging your body when you have such skills to get just as good a reaction merely by opening your mouth?

 

Jake was never really in a position to have those epic, career defining matches, and undoubtedly had a few high profile stinkers. But as a huge fan, there's still loads of his in-ring stuff that I love. Obviously the Steamboat series springs to mind, as well as the Savage matches taken in the context of the overall segment. Some of the Rude and Dibiase matches that are out there are a lot of fun too, despite their 'big' matches on PPV being less well received. I love the WM6 match though, but I'm pretty certain i'm the only one (then again, I used to think that about Demolition/Colossals before reading a few others sharing my views, so you never know!)

 

I always felt like circumstances almost conspired to deprive Jake of getting the chance of good matches in the 90s. Not that they did, but he did seem to be unlucky in that way. You look at the Martel feud, and whilst the blindfold match gimmick was a perfect feud ender, we'd surely have also liked to see a regular match between them. Or a match against Perfect for example. We did get that, but it was short and had the usual non-finish just as it was getting interesting.

 

Then as a heel in the early 90s, I always imagined he could have had a lot of fun matches, but he was never on TV against name guys. That was a strange 6 months. It was entirely about the character. Similarly, I felt that if he'd hung around in 1992, you could potentially have had matches v the likes of the Hitman, and they'd have surely been good. Or if he'd hung around WCW,there was a whole lot more name vs name TV matches there, and he'd be involved in a lot of good stuff. He did have a fun match v Dustin, mind you.

I don't think there'd be much potential in a legends championship, no. But they should take advantage of more of their legends and nostalgic names to give some of them short runs (like the NAO recently) or even just one off appearances to fill up the show whenever RAW's in their hometown or whatever (similar to that angle with Slater a few years ago leading to Sid, Vader etc.). It's not like they can't spare 10-15 minutes on RAW or SD

 

I'd love one annual PPV with a legends theme though, and featuring some old names in action - similar to what they done with the old school RAWs, or like early Slamboree's.

I'd have replied  

 

He was supposed to go 5 minutes with Goldust at Bad Blood if Dude Love beat him (or sometihng like that) so I guess that would've happened and that would've been that as far as their feud was concerned. Maybe Marlena would've turned on 'Dust and stayed with Pillman permanently, i dunno.

 

He would have been perfect in the attitude era. Ideal gimmick, ideal execution. It's no coincidence that, despite being of no real relevance as a wrestler, he was still getting such prominant, edgy angles, both when he was 'fit' and on the shelf.

 

However, i'm pretty sure I read he was unhappy, was wanting out, so would probably have ended up back in WCW in 1998.

 

The thought of the possibilities and potential of a healthy Pillman in the WWF with the loose cannon gimmick is still gutting.  

Who wants more guys in trunks when you already have Orton, Cesaro, Barrett, Miz, Sandow, Sheamus, Jericho, Bryan, Bo, Axel, Titus, Ryder, HHH...

Exactly. Trunks, especially black ones, are dull as hell. That combination should be avoided as much as possible, rather than putting more guys in them to look like everyone else. In the main, they should be reserved for real top tier guys who have a wrestling or 'no -nonsense' gimmick, and have so much charisma and larger than life personality that their attire becomes one of the last things you notice about them. 

 

Notwithstanding the attire type, more colour and less black in general is needed too (not with the Shield guys, they're fine). At that recent PPV, I counted 3 whole matches which were black trunks v black trunks. In fact, everybody on the show, with the exception of Cena, was kitted out in black. it all looked so lifeless and gave off a really boring vibe. 

 

Ambrose has a perfect look just now. Putting him in black trunks would be one of the worst aesthetic switches I could think of. Try telling Undertaker, Cena , Savage, Foley or whoever that you need plain old black trunks to succeed. I can't see Rollins ever suiting them either. Maybe Reigns in a year or two would be ok in trunks, but the shield gear still looks good, he's recognisable in it and has made it his own, and i'd have no problems with him spending his career with that look, even if it ends up just the trousers eventually.

 

I think i've just spent longer talking about wrestling clothes there than i have about wrestling all year   .F*ck it though, i'd make an awesome WWE kit designer. I'd have things looking like the 1993 Rumble again 

So that TLC from last week I just watched was a bit fecking mental, eh? Especially for a bunch of 40 year olds who should be wasted by now.

 

I quite enjoyed it actually. Would've been nice if there were people there to see it though.