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When Shawn Michaels was out with an injured knee in summer 1990, did Marty Jannetty have any really good singles matches in that time period?

 

None that stand out. He mainly did singles against one of the scheduled opponents, or teamed with Shane Douglas as a replacement.

There was one notable match from that period that made TV I think, vs Paul Roma at MSG. It might even have made it onto a VHS release. Not must-see or anything, but still pretty good.

Shawn Michaels tended to get all the good matches when they were involved in singles. Would've been nice to see Jannetty getting those kind of matches too, vs the likes of Flair, Perfect and Dibiase.

On the subject of the Summerslam '91 main event... wasn't the Hogan-Slaughter/Iraq angle dead and buried or of little interest to most considering real world events by the summer? If you wanted to team up Hogan and Warrior for Summerslam and continue the Warrior-Undertaker feud and add the intrigue of Sid...wouldn't Hogan and Warrior vs Jake and Undertaker with Sid as ref been a much tastier option?

Yeah, that would have been the logical one for me, although they would have had to push forward the Jake turn because I think it was only shown in the week prior to Summerslam. I guess maybe going back to Ians comments, the bigger story was Sid, and it may have suited them to have the focus less on the match itself and the (weak) opponents, and more on what side Sid's going to be on. Truth is, Hogan/Warrior vs the 3 Iraqis should be a squash, even one of them v all 3 should have been no bother. But both of them vs the 3 Iraqis and possibly Sid would've been a different proposition altogether.

You could argue that Warrior/Hogan vs Taker/Jake would have been new, fresh, and would've had enough interesting things going on in the match itself without the added story of Sid as ref. Personally i don't think the main event of the 2nd biggest show on the calendar is the place to do what they did, but then i haven't made a dime out of booking wrestling shows. I could actually think of about a dozen different main event scenarios that i believe would have made it a better event. And lets be honest, a strong main event in that card would have thrust it into 'greatest show ever' territory because the undercard was nearly flawless (and yet, still could have been stronger were it not for the misfortune of Shawn Michaels being injured). Another option would have been what they were doing on the house shows leading up to Summerslam - running the handicap match, but with the team of Slaughter, Undertaker and Mustafa.

You're right, the Iraqi thing had run it's course by that time, that's why it raised eyebrows because even the top guy in that group, Slaughter, was insignificant and had lost all his momentum by that point. There's a reason why a month later he'd be begging to team with Hacksaw and would be feuding with the Beverlies and Nasty Boys.

They could have ran the handicap match teaming Hogan with Hacksaw or Sid as a surprise debut - it wasn't like announcing him as special referee beforehand made any difference to buyrates.

It was done to build tension and tease whether Sid was heel or face. Slaughter and his gang were bit part players in what would lead to Sid turning months down the line. Of course adding Sid to the match created interested. He was the WWF's intriguing new star and adding him to the match (and his stare down with both Hogan and Warrior in the build up) created a lot of interest going into it just to see if he was with or against Hogan. Your really understating Sid's involvement and overstating Slaughters involvement in the PPV. If you were going to give away Warrior vs Undertaker on a PPV which didnt need it (it was a stacked card anyway), how would you work Undertaker and Jake showing up at Savages wedding at the end which was a big memorable and important angle? SummerSlam was to build up the coming months, to see where Hogan and Sid went and to evolve the Undertaker and Jake alliance against Savage (which might have involved Warrior, but they had to write him out of the storylines that night anyway).

I know why it was done, but it's kinda straying from the point a bit as i had no problem with sid being there, my problem was with Warrior being there.. They could still have played the "whose side is he on" mini-story by actually having him in the match, grudgingly paired with Hogan, or as the ref with Hogan and Duggan - there wasn't any need to take the Warrior out of his programme that had been built for months as though it never existed. To a kid Undertaker tried to kill him and almost succeeded. I don't think i was alone in wanting to see the Warrior finally get his hands on him, even when in hindsight it couldn't really have had any decisive finish in favour of the Warrior.

It's all very well saying the card did not need Undertaker or Jake, but he had established himself as the top heel in the fed over the summer. It's reasonable to expect that on the 2nd biggest show of the year, that feud would be represented in some way. It could've fitted in easily, for example shaving 5 minutes off the handicap match, the wedding malarkey, and 3 or 4 from the Hammer/IRS which i think went about 8 minutes.

They wouldn't have needed to change a thing about the reception angle, apart from Heenans comments throughout the night. It wasn't happening during the event, it would have been several hours after any Taker/Warrior match.

Alright, I've just watched a Saturday Night Main Event from April 1991, the one with the match between the Ultimate Warrior and Sgt Slaughter where The Undertaker becomes heavily involved. This is right around the time that I started watching wrestling, and I still vividly remember the epidose of Superstars (I think) where The Undertaker locked the Warrior in a casket and took a sledgehammer to it. So there was clearly an on-screen rivalry between the two at that point - but the only match I can find is from the UK Rampage. Is there any reason why Ultimate Warrior vs The Undertaker didn't make it to Pay-Per-View?

Aye it should definitely have been pencilled in for Summerslam. The match made in hell was absolute crap as i've mentioned before, and it was also totally insignificant seeing as Slaughter had lost all his momentum and Warrior wasn't even part of the program until he was suddenly named in the main event. It was just an excuse to draw a line under the whole thing, which would have been fair enough if it wasn't eating into another main event program which was the focus of the summer. They could have ran the handicap match teaming Hogan with Hacksaw or Sid as a surprise debut - it wasn't like announcing him as special referee beforehand made any difference to buyrates.

Warrior/Taker did have another match recorded in addition to the Rampage tape you mentioned, a bodybag match at MSG.

Ah right, ta.

Does that mean it will mostly all get scrubbed at some point and we'll start from scratch where all that survives is the stuff on the pages of the main board, or is it generally set at a similar point back in time. Like for instance, you'll always be able to search say 6 months back etc?

How far back is the cut-off point for being able to see threads through the search function?

He surely must've had to edit out some 'every rose has its thorn" replies.

Out of interest, what injuries during that match were attributed to what bump? In that extract, Funk gives the impression he got away pretty lightly from the first one.

I always thought the timing of the bumps in that match made it all the more insane. You'd think if someone was crazy enough to do something like that, they'd at least make sure it was their last act and they wouldn't need to put themselves through the additional agony of working on and doing more crazy spots for a few minutes. Even forgetting the chokeslam, that backwards 'piggy back' bump would surely be bloody sore as well, even if it wasn't on to tacks.

double post, sorry

I always reckoned it was planned too. Mainly because you see Undertaker carefully walking across the beam and avoiding the mesh whilst passing the edge of that section, and the fact that as hellacious as it looked, Foley still took the bump almost perfectly. It was also convenient that three sides of it completely gave way leaving one to act as a hinge like a trapdoor. And the cameras had already begun to zoom out before he had fell through the mesh, as though they were anticipating it.

In addition, if it was unplanned we would definitely have heard more about the aftermath of it. That would've been a pretty major health & safety breach, and Foley could have probably sued the WWF for more than he was ever going to make over the rest of his career with them.

I know Bobby Heenan retired from management in 1991, but how did they deal with it on TV? Was there a segment where he gave up the Heenan family, or anything like that?

 

Also, Rumble 92 aside, when did Haku stop wrestling on TV for the WWF? And why?

It was on an edition of the Funeral parlour, Heenan just said he'd be stepping down and introduced the Coach as his replacement.

Haku was pretty much gone from the WWF by the same time, around June/July '91. He had some odd appearances like Rumble 92 as you said and a big show in Hawaii, but i don't think he was ever part of Tv tapings after the summer. He did work all those joint WWF/SWS shows in Japan right up to 1992 though, so he was probably still with the WWF in some capacity up to then.

I always remember that sledgehammer/casket segment because it was either right before or after one of those fun little Hardys/Hayes vs Brood sprints.

 

Great Sasuke singing Bon Jovi.

Legend.

Haven't heard of him in a while, but i caught this the other day and I see not much changes. 2:20 and try not to wince.

When the likes of IRS, Virgil and Tito Santana left WWF in the mid 90s, were they released in a spree like the modern post Mania releases, or was there a bit more to it?

Things didn't seem to be as cut-throat in those days as they are now. I guess because the WWF were so good at marketing their guys and everyone was of some value, they'd have preferred not to lose them as almost anyone who was on WWF TV would be somewhat of a coup for WCW. Regular culls weren't common in the 90s.

 

Of those 3 you mentioned, i don't think any were fired. IRS was there until 1995, got injured then decided to go to WCW. Virgil had fallen to almost Jim Powers/Jim Brunzell levels by 1994, although i'm not sure the circumstances of him leaving. I doubt he was fired though, he was handy to have as a jobber with some name value. Tito Santana left not long after WM9 in 1993 because he was retiring as a full time active competitor to work more sporadically on the indies.

 

Thanks for the response. I had sorta guessed as much but never really knew. I'm guessing it was a similar deal for guys like Martel too, when I was kid I didn't bat an eyelid when he turned up in the 95 Rumble, but was he still under contract at the time and working TV's or was he just a one night appearance only? I seem to remember him disappearing just after WM X time.

Martel was a bit like Koko B Ware and the Bushwhackers in that he was never far away, but regularly disappeared for a few months here and there between 1992 and 1994. At least they had the perfect gimmick-related reason for it when he returned - they said he was away travelling the world on modelling shoots. I don't know if he was continually under contract or if he was released then rehired numerous times during that time, but i think he did leave soon after WMX, and the 1995 Rumble was a one shot deal. He did appear on some Canadian house shows in early 95 and there were rumours of him returning in a tag team with the Jackal of all people, but obviously nothing came of it. I would have liked to see him take Jacques place in the Quebecers when he retired.

When the likes of IRS, Virgil and Tito Santana left WWF in the mid 90s, were they released in a spree like the modern post Mania releases, or was there a bit more to it?

Things didn't seem to be as cut-throat in those days as they are now. I guess because the WWF were so good at marketing their guys and everyone was of some value, they'd have preferred not to lose them as almost anyone who was on WWF TV would be somewhat of a coup for WCW. Regular culls weren't common in the 90s.

Of those 3 you mentioned, i don't think any were fired. IRS was there until 1995, got injured then decided to go to WCW. Virgil had fallen to almost Jim Powers/Jim Brunzell levels by 1994, although i'm not sure the circumstances of him leaving. I doubt he was fired though, he was handy to have as a jobber with some name value. Tito Santana left not long after WM9 in 1993 because he was retiring as a full time active competitor to work more sporadically on the indies.

When did Stone Cold switch from the Ringmaster theme to the original Stone Cold track? Or to put it another way, when did he first use it on TV?

Think it was around the Buried Alive IYH (October 1996), give or take a week or two maybe.

How did Hayabusa become H. Also did Hayabusa have a singles match in ECW I no he had the tag match at Heatwave 98

Basically Ricky Fuyuki as commisioner forced him to give up the gimmick and return to being Eiji Ezaki. After his final match a few months later, Fuyuki presented him with flowers as part of a retiral ceremony, only to smash them over Hayabusas head. Then the rest of Team No Respect came down and beat him, stripped him, and Gannosuke took his mask to become the new 'Hayabusa'. So Ezaki came back under the 'H' gimmick instead of his real name. Not quite sure on the reasoning for the new gimmick exactly, but FMW was pretty sleazy at the time, it was clearly one for the ladies.

I'm pretty sure he never done anything else for ECW other than the Heatwave tag. Earlier in his career he did work quite a bit in Mexico (including CMLL and Rey Sr's promotion in Tijuana), and he even had a spell in the Florida indies.

It's a shame he never done much in the US, I'd have thought WCW might've wanted him, he was amazing.

Ok, one for the experts to try...

 

When was the last time a WWE or WWF Championship/Title/Belt was defended in a match on a card not promoted by the WWF/E or by V.K. McMahon or McMahon Snr?

 

I have heard that the WWF Womens title was involved in several non-WWF promoted matches in Japan in 1994 with one title change taking place, but has there been any more recent?

Bret Hart faced Terry Funk in September '97 on the Wrestlefest card, at which time Hart was the WWF World Champion, although I don't know for sure whether the title was on the line in the match.

If it's wasn't, the Hitman did defend it vs the Bulldog on a Stampede tribute show for Stu Hart in December 1995.

Actually, so did Razor against Owen earlier in the show (IC title obv.)

Abe and the 1994 version of MVP were the same gimmick. 'The MVP' was the 'Stone Cold' to Abe's Steve Austin.

I knew it was pretty much the same, but i thought it was an actual name chancge, like Thurman Plugg to Bob Holly?

Lombardi was also a duplicate at times during that run wasn't he? Before Doink turned and Borne was replaced with Apollo?

Yeah.

So he might have been the Brooklyn Brawler, Doink, Kimchee, MVP and Abe Knuckleball Schwartz all in the one year?

Just watching bits and bobs from past Wrestlemanias on Youtube and came across the Doink v Crush match. Who played the second Doink for that run-in?

I think i read it was Skinner/Steve Keirn but someone who knows for certain can maybe confirm that.

Whoever it was, I take it he had to make himself comfortable back under there for the rest of the show ?

Haha quality, Regal's reaction at 0:42 on that video is brilliant!

Here's another question about the movez. Remember that first WWF arcade game where Andre and Dibiase were champions, and Andre's special was the over the shoulder backbreaker lift. Did he ever actually use that in the WWF? I remember Rick Rude used it for a while, but all i remember Andre using was an elbow or ass drop as a finisher

Don't recall him ever using that backbreaker, but I would guess he would have used it early on in his career. He didn't use it in his WWF run.

 

Andre also used that strange looking single-underhook side-suplex thing as a finisher. He used it on Hogan when he won the title from him.

Aye, i remember that now you mention it. I think he pinned Bigelow with it on one of the early Survivor Series too.

I saw a youtube clip once from the early 80s where he busted out the pedigree, which was a bit of a WTF moment. I always thought Skinner was the first to do that.

Haha quality, Regal's reaction at 0:42 on that video is brilliant!

In fairness, pretty much everything about Regal around 2000-2002 was brilliant!

That piledriver from the studio match looked fantastic. 123 Kid/Roadie not so much.

Here's another question about the movez. Remember that first WWF arcade game where Andre and Dibiase were champions, and Andre's special was the over the shoulder backbreaker lift. Did he ever actually use that in the WWF? I remember Rick Rude used it for a while, but all i remember Andre using was an elbow or ass drop as a finisher

I remember after the botch, guys took the Doomsday Device differently.

 

They just took a flat, back bump rather than spinning about 200 times and hitting the floor. The move didn't look as good then, but you can respect why they changed it.

Yeah, but they sometimes still done it the old, dangerous way. I'm sure it was the original version that both Godwinns subsequently took at times after the injury

That safer version with the electric chair drop looked like shit when you were used to the real thing.

Just been watching Godwinns interview. Had no idea one of them broke their neck so severely after a botched DDD from Legion Of Doom. Memory is a bit hazy but i was thinking something as severe as that would have been stuck in my mind and regularly brought up in discussions but i don't remember a thing about it.

 

With RAW being taped back then did the full match get scratched from the TV broadcast >?

 

EDI: 21st April 1997 if that helps

Can't remember seeing it at the time, but the neck break was the focus of their feud once Godwinn got back in the ring, they often showed the clip of it happening, sao i guess the match did air. It was pretty ugly. They definitely showed it on the One Night Only tape as i watched it just a few months back. The pretty cool/mad/admirable thing about it was that i'm sure Henry Godwinn took the doomsday Device again on a few occasions. Phineus/Mideon to his credit also took it for real too, which surprised me as he was always one of the least agile big guys around and not well known for his bumping.

Vintage collection was horrendous this week! Perhaps because Kamala, Taylor, Matador and Backlund are amongst my least favourite acts ever. Just so tedious. Thanks the lord for Marty Jannetty.

 

You don't like Tito or just Tito as El Matador?

 

I don't think I've seen a Tito match I've not enjoyed.

I don't like Tito. He was just one of a batch of guys I found really dull even as a kid so would never take much notic of his matches. There are some guys who I've grown to love over the years but I still dislike him just as much. My favourite tito match is probably as El Matador, the WM 8 opener with HBK.

 

Fair play, I just wondered.

That WM match is a good one from what I recall, but it's been a while.

I always enjoyed Tito in 'competitive' matches, but his squashes were usually really dull. Headlock, armdrag, dropkick and flying forearm was pretty much the story of every one. The Matator gimmick actually freshened him up a bit with a decent new look and a few more moves. Kinda missed his old music though