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Was watching OSW Review Royal Rumble 1990 last night and the host mentioned that the original plan, leading upto the day of the Rumble, was that Mr Perfect was going to win it, only for it to be changed to Hogan on the day.

 

Seemed a bit far fetched to me. Any truth to this?

I've heard that story, and it wouldn't surprise me; When you look at the first two winners, winning the Rumble wasn't as prestigious at that point as it would go on to be in later years. And they were desperately short of top heels around that time.

 

Even if it had gone down, it wouldn't have had any effect on WM6 though, like some claim. A fair drop from feuding with Hogan and being talked about for winning the rumble, to jobbing clean to Brutus though. 

It's been almost 10 years since the legend killer run hasn't it? Maybe time for a revival. Could be something to make me interested in Orton again. Although playing the crowd for the Ryback tag was awesome.

Can't see that working, I'd expect any legend killer worth their salt to be a legend themselves a decade later. No progression in 10 years wouldn't say much for him.

Vince was by far the worst main show commentator of that era in hindsight IMO. Was watching a Saturday Night's Main Event from I think early 1987 and Vince's face bias during a Savage/Steele match was like some sort of parody.

 

I'm sure there was probably worse b and c team commentators back then but Vince was wretched on the main shows.

Feck off, he was great too!

 

Actually, they were mostly all great back then, until the likes of Rob Bartlett came along.

 

As a kid who wanted to cheer on the good guys, I probably wouldn't have liked Ventura so much if i followed it through the late 80s into 1990 though. Not because he was a bad commentator or anything, but because it was hard to argue with a lot of his logical pointing out of double standards. if I was a bit older, he'd probably have made me a full-on heel fan.

The #freerey thing is laughable, please free poor Rey from his contract which guarantees him a nice healthy paycheck whilst he sits on his arse because his knees are knackered

 

Vince would be right to fuck him off, he's not been entertaining in years

He wants out and it's a catchy slogan, what's laughable about it?

Not having any of this Monsoon besmirchment; he was great, and ideal for the time!

And a small part of that was for some of the reasons why Butch thinks he was shite. The hooking the leg comments were a great touch, which often put over how cocky the heel was, and gave the belief that all these mid-match nearfalls could be legit if only they did hook the leg. 

 

Likewise with the acknowledging that rest holds weren't going to force a submission. Nobody ever believed they would've anyway, but Gorilla always made sure to emphasise the wearing-down effect they had, which gave them a purpose in the story of the match, and made the fans cheer for the babyface to get out of it sooner rather than later.

Recently discovered 'Hollywood' Bob Holly in Smoky Mountain; might be my favourite persona of his now! Bret outfit, jacket and Bowie entrance music, can't go wrong with any of that. Oh, and his flying knee-drop finish from the top looks great.

He used that in the WWF too, that was the Pitstop Plunge! Although I think they eventually just ended up using that for anything he hit from the top rope.

 

I watched a house show fancam with him vs Pierre the other, it was pretty good stuff actually. Way more energetic and spirited than you'd imagine on a house show, and they had the crowd pretty rabid. I also saw that show where Diesel won the title, and Pierre even got a fun match out of Mabel. He was working like an absolute demon. He was so good, such a wasted talent. Would've made an awesome babyface too. 

A great mix of top names and hot indy workers and they couldn't get a good card out of them. Amazing really.

I never followed them or anything, but the show they had which aired as a TWC supershow from the Hammerstein ballroom was a lot of fun. It looked cool, had quite a big time feel to it and featured a bit of everything, most of it half-decent (and at that time, even the ridiculous indie 'style' was still a bit of a novelty so was somewhat tolerable). They had a lovely carpet for apron mats too!

A wrestling show from France where the ring is floating on water and the wrestlers have to get to it by a little boat.

 

Other than FMW's swimming pool match, is this a first?

 

The one from Tarrant on TV with Super Delfin throwing folks from the swaying ring into the (whale) shark infested sea tops anything of this nature

 

EDIT: Was gonna mention Club laVela but looks like that's actually a permanent island

Has anyone spotted DDP? I cant see him in it

 

Between Mantuar and Zodiac/some jaundiced guy

Is Finlay in it?

Looks like him below Warrior and Adam Bomb to the right of the cell.

Didn't they tape a show in London during this tour where Andre hobbled down to ringside with the aid of a crutch. If so I can't imagine he worked a match, or even climbed into the ring at a house show.

 

I think you're right. Wasn't it after Earthquake supposedly injured his knee with Jimmy Hart's megaphone?

Don't think so, Rampage was in April, but the Earthquake attack wasn't until a month or two later.

 

I don't think Andre had the crutch during that tour - he did use Fuji's cane, which is probably what you remember.

Steve Austin went into this with Jim Korderas a couple of podcasts ago - the ref would be told to do silly stuff like cartwheels through his earpiece mainly to rib the wrestlers, but I wouldn't think it would happen during TV tapings

It almost exclusively happened at TV tapings, during tryout dark matches, to entertain people watching on the monitors. They spoke about this on that very podcast you referenced.

 

That's what I meant to say, not on broadcast TV where real people would see it.

That probably is a dark match though, it looks like Steve Bradley.

Obviously the stuntman stuff in WWF set an unnecessarily dangerous standard but the early WCW stuff irks me even more. Sentons and flat back bumps onto concrete in throwaway matches that nobody was watching or cared about.

Absolutely this. It was nuts, and it was practically every match. Sickening thuds onto concrete to the point it was just routine.

 

You can't make any sense out of it, there was absolutely no payoff. The bone shattering bumps weren't put over like they should've been for maximum effect, the visual impact was nothing compared to the craziness and pain from it, cameras barely caught them, or at least never made the most of them - yet still he kept doing it week after week after week. it was just downright moronic.

 

I do like him though, i enjoy his matches, but every time i see him doing that stuff to little reaction or reward in most of his WCW matches, all I can think (after the initial wince) is "what the fuck are you doing, you idiot?"

 

I still don't know how he managed to do it for a decade. I would barely have been surprised to find out he was actually a skinny runt and wrestled his whole career in a padded fat suit

 

On the bigger point, i'm glad that wrestlers real life personalities make absolutely no difference to my enjoyment of them!

'Fuxake. What a way to bring you right down after a great 3 or 4 days

 

He was my favourite as a kid, which i guess makes him my favourite ever. Gutting.

 

Spookily, I was just thinking yesterday that there hadn't been many wrestling deaths this last few years, - it was brought on from reading some eejits wishing heart attacks on none other than the Warrior on the Wrestling Classics board.

It was good seeing Cesaro become a Heyman Guy, but does blur the lines of heel/face. King of Swing is a good moniker. I liked the way Zeb Colter was arguing about Cesaro jumping ship, reminded me of the glory days of managers in wrestling. Maybe they felt Cesaro needed a mouthpiece hence getting Paul Heyman. What face could they have used as his manager/ mouthpiece?

William Regal!

It's amazing just how many guys passed through WCW at one point or another. Still, I reckoned I was probably aware of all the name guys by now; Turns out was mistaken, as I was watching some Power Hour earlier, and stumbled across The Minotaur!

 

Interesting character too, he had a cracking look. A bit like Rhyno crossed with Mesias. And he had a beast of a clothesline, which endeared him to me , even if he was a bit shit, which he may or may not have been.

 

I'm now re-evaluating - there's still probably dozens of guys who came in for a couple of weeks hidden away on Pro and Power Hour that i'm not aware of. The revolving door and their willingness just to throw guys in was one of the things that made WCW so interesting, and was in stark contrast to the WWF where everyone knows everyone who appeared, even one-offs.

Bummer.

 

I assume they were good matches as well, pretty mental that a Title change took place in a dark match.

Aye, they were happening a lot around that time, and it sucked. It;s fair enough that they were doing them to to increase house show sales with the unpredictability, but they could at least have took a couple of cameras along with them to film them for VHS releases and for posterity. The Money Inc/Steiners never bothered me too much, Disasters/Money Inc/LOD the previous year even less so (Did I read that a LOD/Money Inc one actually turned out to be a phantom match?).

 

But missing out on Shawn/Marty was a right bastard, especially when it was practically at the WWF's back door. Fortunately, the other notable one with Kid/Jannetty and the Quebecers turned up on fancam, although it would've still been nice to see it all polished up for tv.

 

Did they keep and archive all the dark matches from tapings back in those days?

What's the general consensus on Pillman's WCW run?

I don't suppose we know, as he isn't really talked about much, but the consensus should be that Flyin Brian was amazing!

 

I was always a sucker for high flying prettyboy types, and along with The Rockers, he was about as good as it got.

 

Everything he done was great imo. I always used to wish he'd turn up on WWF in his tiger stripe days.

 

And the great thing about WCW, the tonnes of weekly tv it put out, and not seeing much of it back in the day, is that there's always loads of stuff still to see. Recently, I've been digging out some of 1990 Pillman, mostly tag stuff w/ Z man, and enjoying it a lot.

 

You're right about that Wargames match, it was class. It feels like it's ended up being kinda forgotten because of the following years, but there wasn't much in WCW better than it in 1991. Pillman was always great at high energy sprint-type matches too, like the Superbrawl singles match seeing as you mentioned those two going at it. But there's dozens of good examples. Sub 5 minutes matches against all types from Norman to Meng.

 

Yeah, i'm a fan

You must really love Common Man....

 

Is that still Wheel of Fortune then? Maybe I should have been honest and said "checked Demolition had their proper music." I was alarmed how many cuts were made on the Anthology set. Superfly and the Orients' music missing??

Nah, you'll be right enough. Just that when you remember Sapphire getting down to it, it's one of those rare exceptions where the original isn't as fun as the edit. Every rose has a thorn or something like that...

 

Should probably have only highlighted 'thankfully' to make it a bit clearer

...... and then skimming through WrestleMania VI to check for music edits, thankfully none were found. "Here comes the Ax... here comes the Smasher..." - lovely.

You must really love Common Man....

 

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Like everyone else I loved that opener. Both those two are class. Zayn's everything a great babyface should be despite not having much of a look, whilst Cesaro's just a machine; he's a king of a man.

 

Not being overly familiar with NXT, do they put on matches like that regularly though? As fun as it was, it's not something I'd like to see every month, otherwise the effect would soon become diluted. Hopefully those sort of epic type matches are only busted out on special occasions, like last night which I guess was a bit like NXT Wrestlemania

 

I didn't particularly enjoy the ladder match though, it was pretty mediocre stuff. Still not seeing what the fuss is all about with Neville. That springboard over Dallas' head on the ladder was some spot all the same.

 

Rusev should be entertaining enough for 6 months or so, but facially he probably looks far too much like a regular guy to be an effective monster.

 

Regal was great too. You could see his style probably wouldn't translate to the main shows, but it's ideal in that smaller, less mainstream setting where he clearly has some freedom. He has some way with words, does the bold William. Even when he's being straight he has you chuckling with his patter and delivery.

The Godwinns were also pretty decent when they were being used correctly, in roles that suited them - which was practically their whole careers outwith that horrible period being talked about in 96-97. Even if Phineas was a big stiff.

 

In terms of talent, in some ways you could liken 1996 WWF to WCW the previous year. A pretty crap midcard despite having loads of talent, mainly because it was so unbalanced with a wealth of good heels but very little in terms of babyfaces. You look at the likes of Austin, HHH, Goldust, King, Owen, Faarooq etc and the only real opponents for most of that period was Ahmed when he was fit, and the Wildman (who was actually on fire in 1996 , he deserves way more praise than he seems to get). The likes of Savio, Jake (as much as I still enjoyed him just for who he was,a nd loved the Lawler stuff), Holly, Aldo, Duke and co. were never going to cut it. There were other odd fun guys, like Freddie Joe Floyd for example, but he was barely above ham n egger level, and didn't exactly have the look to go much higher. Things were so bad, they had to resort to heel v heel with Austin and HHH at an IYH.

 

As they aproached 1997, things did pick up though, partly thanks to the influx of talent around Survivor Series time, as well as guys like Ahmed coming back from injury, some new tag teams like the Can Ams, the Blackjacks who were quite good, and Headbangers who were passible I guess (they were popular at least). So i wouldn't really include those months prior to WM13 in that. They should have done way more with Flash though. He could easily have fitted into the spot left by Mero when he got injured early in '97 and thrived, instead of just being stuck as another Spark Plug

 

The 'Awful in WCW in 95/WWF in 96' similarities were apparent at the top end of the tag division too, in particular the babyface side with the flagship teams being the Nasty Boys and Godwinns. If ever a time was crying out for LOD or the Steiners, it was then - and sure enough, one of them turned up in each fed the following year (both in WCW). Furnas and LaFon would've been ideal for 1995 WCW too imo, they'd have been far more popular than they were in the WWF.

 

The worst thing about the WWF ranks in 96 though was that as weak as the division was, they still could've made it miles better if they'd only played to each teams strengths i.e build the division around the Gunns and Rockers as babyfaces with the Godwinns and Bodydonnas as heels. Instead, they practically done the exact opposite. It's not like it was an afterthought of a division either, it was pretty prominent back then, pretty much every PPV had a tag title match.

Did Earthquake get pinned much on TV in WWF? I know Warrior pinned him on a Coliseum video match but I'm struggling to think of many more.

Hardly ever, he was pretty well protected (as he should have been). Until he turned babyface (one of the most miscast roles ever), I can't remember any pinfall losses on ordinary weekly TV actually - just to Warrior and DBS on vid, and Jake on the MSG network.

 

Dibiase did beat him with the $M dream in 1992, and I remember him losing clean to Yokozuna, but that's about all that springs to mind other than countouts etc.

 

It is somewhat surprising there aren't more TV losses from 1991 as he was being jobbed out to almost everyone and anyone on the house show circuit prior to forming the Natural Disasters, often through Andre interference.

I said I'd never do it, but I just got into it with Court Bauer and some tart off Konnan's podcast on twitter, because Konnan is a homophobe and brags about assaulting women. A bunch of fucking loonies. Never get into Twittah Warz. Its a waste of time.

Konan's a cretin. I usually look in on what Cubs and Rob Bihari are up to on twitter and you can only shake your head at most of the shit he comes out with and generally just how he comes across in all their run-ins. And that's even without the homophobia and misogyny. He ain't got much up top, that's for sure. You know there's something not quite right when a 50 year old man acts like a teenage gangster wannabe. Also, his patter's just excrutiating.

 

Added to the fact he was one of the worst wrestlers around (after 95), and isn't much better as a booker, he's probably my least favourite person in all of wrestling.

I would of preferred Snake to return at Royal Rumble as a surprise entrant.

The idea of Jake doing something like Perfect in 02 would be unbelievable. Even just for a minute or two of a surprise return - eliminate a nobody with his high knee- short clotheline - DDT someone - get Revelations jr out then get out. It would still have probably been my decade highlight.

 

Unfortunately I doubt he can do anything physically at all nowadays though. If he could, we'd surely have saw a DDT

 

Still, he looked ruddy brilliant all things considered! So, so cool to see. I hope he's doing ok inside too

 

It's gutting that Wrestling has missed out on him for all those years though. That's 20 years or more.

 

Obviously if he remained active throughout the 90s, he wouldn't be today, but as you say, he'd still have been a great character on screen afterwards and right up to the present if only things had been different.