Loki

Completely agree (and that doesn't happen that often does it!). So many "wrestling is shit innit" posts across the Wrestlemania threads, and now in here too. This is a wrestling discussion forum ffs. If you think you're above wrestling, why post here?

As amusing as we all found The List~! as adoloecents back in the day, I don't think anyone wants to go back to a time when people were shitting in other people's bags, sticking fingers up their bum, and drugging and raping local girls after the show. Do we? So let's not hold up those old stories as a measuring stick for how cool backstage fights are. It's not "hard" to stab someone else with a pair of scissors, it makes you a nutter who should probably be locked up until you come down off your cocaine binge. Most of the fan favourite wrestlers from the 80s and 90s should probably be in jail, and I say that as an enormous Vader fan. Wresting is SO much better nowadays, it's attracting better athletes and better fans as well. CM Punk cold cocking a young wrestler backstage stands out a LOT more because of this. And right in front of your boss as well, it's not a dispute in the locker room it's done deliberately in front of management. The whole idea behind AEW was for it to be a better place than WWE to work. Remember the stories about better workers' rights, healthcare, all that? That seems like a long time ago. I'd have buried this footage for ever and tried to concentrate on building some new stars, if I was Khan.

My reaction to the footage exactly. Unprovoked physical assault = immediate dismissal. Forget the whole "but what about the storyline backstage attacks" - that's fiction and this is reality, and really ALL wrestling fans should understand the difference by now. I can also understand the Tony Khan "fear for my life" comment now as it's his monitor that is knocked over and then Punk lunges at him aggressively. Yes, it's an overreaction but again, entirely created by Punk's childish unprofessionalism. Nobody comes out of this looking good. Punk is exposed as a liar and an unhinged moron, AEW is made to look unprofessional and petty, the live crowd chanting for Punk look like utter idiots. And it killed the crowd for the rest of the show, making the TV product worse. Airing this is one of the worst decisions I can remember from a modern wrestling organisation. Maybe since Dixie Carter publicly berating her entire roster at the start of a Dynamite. Coming off the positive and almost universally loved Wrestlemania weekend, this only serves to solidify that the momentum and goodwill AEW accrued in its first few years is gone. They're now competing with a re-energised WWE and this, this isn't the way to do it.

It always tickled me that Lou Carpenter, that most Australian of characters, was played by an Englishman. Perhaps as part of his heel turn he could adopt a British accent.

Building on the success of guys like Dom Mysterio and Bron Brekker, check out Kevin Owens' son - What a unit! 6'7" and 270 lbs. Get that lad into the Performance Center.

The post at the top of this page was the original example. You’re not an ally if you play Hogwarts Legacy, or you’re implicitly anti-trans if you don’t do x, y or z. For a lot of people, it’s just not their fight. Or they may just not feel comfortable making public declarations or displays. Anyway, its very late so I’ll bow out now.

That seems like a personal and generous action that doesn’t negatively effect anyone else @SuperBacon. And presumably you don’t judge the other people on the bus if they’re NOT wearing appropriate colours. That’s a nice thing to do, and a million miles away from calling people out if they don’t boycott something. I can’t imagine anyone taking issue with this sort of gesture. Inasmuch as showing support for people is being an ally I’m all for it. It’s only when it becomes competitive or exclusionary that it makes me uncomfortable. I probably should have said it can be performative, rather than suggesting it always is.

That's fair. I guess I'm happy just not being transphobic, if being an "ally" means going after people's livelihoods in the manner of boycotting large-scale endeavours like films and video games. Life is hard enough. Joss Whedon is an arsehole but I'll still watch Buffy on streaming services. Glinner is a bigot but I'll still watch Father Ted. These things are a product of more than one person's endeavour. And as you say, just wearing the t-shirt doesn't mean anything if you're an arsehole in other areas of your life.

I hate this. JK Rowling has had no involvement in this game. Conversely hundreds of people have worked for years on it, and their ongoing livelihood depends on the success of the game. I don't see how boycotting this game in any way makes you a "trans ally", she'll still be a millionaire if the game sells not a single copy but the studio and employees would all be out on their arse. You're not helping trans rights or punishing her in any way. I also think "trans ally" is a bit patronising. It's performative nonsense, it's a t-shirt slogan to make you feel good. It's not hard to simply not be a bigot, or at the very least not go out of your way to make some people's life worse. You don't need to get a medal and a handshake for that, it's common decency. Edit: not having a go at you particularly Trip, I should declare a vested interest as I work in that industry and my colleagues are having a hard enough time without people boycotting games for reasons that have nothing to do with the games. And I support trans rights as I supported gay rights and women's rights but don't think it needs to be a performative act.

You'll have to explain this.

He was helped to the back after the match too, had to be helped out of the ring. And I think he's out for a few months to heal up so it's only partly kayfabe. Like him or not, the man's put in a serious shift this year.

One subtext from the Rock's post-game on Saturday was that he talked about wanting SOMETHING to do if he came back, rather than the lazy promo and a Rock Bottom that the WWE had been asking of him for the last 15 years. Once he was convinced there was an interesting program, he was in. I wonder if there's other wrestlers that feel like that - John Cena and Austin particularly, who might be interested in heavier involvement in this Haitch Era. If the WWE can weave the odd legend into their stories across the year as they've done with The Rock, you can easily sketch out 12-18 months of programming from here on. Plus for the first time in ages I have faith that they're actually going to push their new stars forward. I know that sounds incompatible with bringing back older wrestlers, but it's not. You can have Austin & LA Knight v CM Punk and RIcky Starks on a card alongside Cody v Bron Brekker for the title. Speaking of... is it Undisputed WWE Championship, Universal Undisputed Champion or what? They've called it so many different names this weekend. They should have dropped the Undisputed bit as soon as the World Heavyweight title was created surely.

He popped up in Stargate Atlantis (yes, yes, I know) and was instantly the best actor they'd had on the show. It was a bit embarrassing to be honest.

Real recognises real.

Don’t get my hopes up! That would be great. I wonder if Punk is on the WhatsApp to Austin every week, trying to get that dream match. Honestly, everyone is back in the Fed , let’s make it happen!

It's also a total dead end as far as a definition. I don't know if you read Yuval Noah Harari's Sapiens but he had a great section on sex v gender which put it into a more historical perspective. He goes on to list cultural definitions of man and woman throughout history, and how they've changed between different cultures and civilizations. It makes the point very well that gender is a mutable and constantly changing definition where chromosomal sex is a biological function. He wasn't talking about trans issues at all, but certainly helped me understand the debate better. It's absolutely a good thing that discussion of transgender issues is more mainstream nowadays but the fact that most of it is on Twitter/Reddit is depressing, because those platforms massively amplify the extreme views on both sides of the discussion and force a polarisation of opinion that's really unhelpful. You go two or three comments deep and you'll have one side denying the existence of gender separate from chromosomal sex, and the other side denying the existence of scientific definitions of male and female.

There was an interesting look that passed between Drew and Seth after the match, a mutual respect and understanding. They're the workhorses, CM Punk and now Damien Priest have waltzed in. Wonder if there's some sort of storyline brewing here.

Dustin was there! Gutted that WWE and AEW don't have enough of a relationship to sort out a one-night pass for him to appear.

I'm loving all these reaction videos, and if I may offer a thesis here. For many years the wrestling industry was a carny business, based on the foundations of kayfabe - the wrestlers and promoters knew it was fake, but the marks thought it was real. That naturally creates an "us and them" mentality. It was also a very cut-throat business where you got paid depending on how well the house drew, your place on the card. Every younger generation couldn't wait for the older generation to fuck off so they could headline and get the big purses. And a lot of the wrestlers were coming in from other sports - football, body building, basketball... it was something they could make money out of even if they'd not grown up as fans. That all changed in the 90s - the fans realised it wasn't on the level but embraced the chaos and so the product could become a bit more edgy and not run the risk of being "exposed". But still fundamentally the workers and promoters were the same people, who grew up in the kayfabe era. What strikes me about modern WWE, especially post-Vince, is that almost everyone was a wrestling fan first. The wrestlers are all fans, the commentators are all fans, the announcers are fans. They have no expectations of fooling the marks, they all understand wrestling on the same level as the audience - that it's this odd mix of fakery and reality and built on an incredible history and legacy. Everyone's on the same page and I think that shows in the genuine emotions and reactions on display. I loved watching the Rock's post-Night1 presser yesterday where he was able to seamlessly snap out of his character and talk honestly and openly about his career and the way the match came together and nobody is pissing their pants about ruining kayfabe - everyone understands the dichotomy and can work inside it. There's an obvious joy at work in WWE nowadays and despite the hoo-haa about the Rock's initial return it also feels like the younger wrestlers are really pumped to have their childhood heroes still turning up now and then. They mark out at The Rock, they want to see Austin run in, or Cena run in. It's not just "what's best for business" but also, what's good for the product and the entertainment. That's infectious - I think we the audience are seeing the results of that change. To quote the old adage, if it's real.. you can feel it.

How dare she enjoy wrestling. As long as there's an arse in a seat every 18 inches she shouldn't give a shit.

Fucking hell @Chest Rockwell, you're going to actually kill @SuperBacon, editing other people's posts!!

I have a fantastic book from the early 90s about the Nazi UFO projects. It's a great read, and in the pre-internet days you just accept it all as fact. Like Fingerprints of the Gods, which was one of the great works of speculative fiction.

You think that's fake? She's a hell of an actress then, that's proper ugly crying. Of course they filmed her, they film everything, they're a film production company.

I love it. Actual emotion, that's what great wrestling provides. I love the passion of the commentators, don't see why it's not appropriate for her. She still delivers the line well but it's much better than a simple "Your winner by pinfall, Cody Rhodes. Rhodes." I'm with the kidz on this one, she's fab.

I'm hoping they didn't do that because a) it was too obvious and b) they've got that planned for Summerslam. The fact is that both Rock and Austin are still healthy enough to do SOMETHING so please, let's not leave that on the table too long. But yeah, great PPV again, loved the opener, loved the main event. Sometimes predictable is good, sometimes you WANT your fantasy to come true. And I'm not moaning about HHH getting his flowers, the man deserves it. He has worked away for years, learning his craft as a booker, built NXT and then had it taken away from him, got the book for the big shows and then got it taken away, had a heart attack and nearly died. He's stuck with it, and in the last 12 months since he's properly been in charge he's turned WWE round creatively and delivered one of the best Wrestlemanias of all time. Why shouldn't people be licking his arse?