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7 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Interesting to hear you felt that way.

Were you expecting more action/bigger set pieces?

I guess I just expected it to be a bit more “epic” given the hype but, so far, has consisted of little more than meaningless conversations. Example: how many times does Norrie need to visit the guy who fell out the sky for us to be no closer to knowing who he is?  Nothing came of any of their interactions. A lot of it just feels like padding. I take your point about Fellowship of the Ring being a slow build to the next two films but even that introduced the Nazgûls (impressive that predictive text inserts a circumflex), had the scenes in the Mines of Moria and the Balrog. So far we’ve had about minute each of a troll and a an orc, both dispensed of without much threat. 
I’m a LotR fan and I’ve got no intention of giving up on it as I do think I’ll enjoy it when it picks up but, in my opinion, it’s been an underwhelming start. 

 

Also, The Hobbit films are fucking rank. It was my favourite book as a kid and I haven’t even bothered to watch the third. 

I found the first two episodes a bit of a slog, very little plot and just everyone being incredibly tense. Durin brought some much needed levity but was hampered by Elrond who must be the most boring person in Middle Earth. Two flashes of action across two hours is poor show, we’re a quarter of the way through this season and there’s almost no hook. I’ll persist but this will flop if it doesn’t pick up, the pacing is dreadful. 

Lawrence Fox playing Hunter Biden in a film produced by Breitbart News. Feel unclean just watching the trailer. 

51 minutes ago, Tommy! said:

It's not much to step from that to going in blind because it's a name you've heard of, which I always thought was part of the appeal of the fringe; going blind into a wide array of different shows and names across an array of styles and seeing something new. 

People, generally, do that with the “free” shows (most still contribute something to the bucket at the end) or ones priced at a fiver or so. He was charging almost £30, which would have been at the higher end of ticket prices. I wouldn’t pay £30 to see someone without checking to see if it’s the kind of thing I’d enjoy. But that might just be me.

I believe his promo video for the show mentions getting his knob out and there was a warning at the start that some may find themes distressing. Obviously that doesn’t  give carte blanche but steps were taken to prevent people who wouldn’t enjoy from going in the first place.

If I’d known it would spare you trying to have a discussion with me then I certainly would have. 

59 minutes ago, Tommy! said:

For saying I'm agreeing with your root point you're awfully confrontational, but that seems to be a common thread for your posts since the start. 

You complained about someone having different standards for different forms or delivery of comedy or wider art,  but at the same time argue that ultimately that that's fundamental to how people approach the content in context. That's all,  I'm saying you can't have it both ways.  

Outside that I'm neither defending or vilifying him or his act as I've not seen it. 

Apologies, no confrontation meant, brother ✌🏻 

I don’t think that’s I have been arguing tbh. The standards should remain the same but understanding the context is fundamental to how the content should be treated. Ironically, Sadowitz is one of the comedians who’s actually spoken about this quite a bit. 

19 minutes ago, Tommy! said:

I know,  and despite you arguing your point poorly in this thread I agree with you in theory, but as I said if you are applying different criteria as to what's acceptable between two different styles of "art" you can't complain when that's also used by others between two different styles of "art". 

Well, that’s subjective but given how predictable the replies have been from this forum it’s hardly surprising you take that view, I doubt there’s anything I could’ve said that would win over the great white knights of the UKFF. And regardless, I’m not here to win anyone over. 

You’re putting words in my mouth with the second part, I haven’t said I agree or disagree with Chubby Brown’s show getting cancelled. And like Keith said that was a council owned building but you already know there’s a difference between that and a Fringe show. 

3 minutes ago, Tommy! said:

But that's your whole argument isn't it? ,Sadowitz is fine to get his nob out and call people pakki or nigger but it's not for chubby brown say. 

Now I agree with your point in theory, it is fundamentaly different because of the presentation and intent of delivery but you can't then turn around and complain about that logic as well. 

It is also surely it is fundamentaly different for a stage actor to get his penis out to another stage actor, both of which are aware of the script and narrative it is driving in the overarching story and a comic getting it out to an unsuspecting women in the front row for shock value. 

 

Because you’re supposed to laugh along with Chubby Brown, he’s mocking minorities. You’re supposed to laugh at how pathetic Sadowitz is, he’ll slag off people but ultimately the joke is that their more successful and happier than him. 
 

I used the comparison of the one man show because there were no other actors, it was directed at the audience. I’ve read the book so knew the scene would be included but was still shocked at the level of vulgarity, my girlfriend hadn’t read the book so was even more shocked than me. We both knew the book was offensive and vulgar and went in with those expectations. 

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Mate, there's no need to be rude. These are all just opinions and I don't think anyone believes their view is the one and only true one. There's obviously a lot of nuance involved. 

Sorry, I didn’t mean that to be as arsey as it’s come across. But that’s his schtick, a misanthrope who is utterly bereft of joy but not one deserving of any sympathy because he’s an appalling person. 

I’ve seen him once, it wasn’t side splitting funny but it’s a performance that certainly stirs the emotions. 
 

5 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

No I don't think you would have had to read the book before hand, but I do think there is a difference in one being part of a script/story and the other being something that the act has just chosen to do. 

For what its worth, I think both the act and venue are in the wrong here. 

You’re setting different levels of acceptability for different types of art then. If Sadowitz had written it and someone else performed it would that have made it more acceptable?

edit: from what I’ve read this wasn’t just an impromptu flash but part of a piece that he’s done in other shows before this. 

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

It's one of the moments where you realise just what a shit Bruce is.

So close to getting it.

Is having read the book a condition of seeing the show? Did the book come with a warning that was in it? Does nudity mean nips, knob or full on gape?

If you pay to see a comedian known to be the most vile and offensive out there, expected to be offended. If you bought the ticket without as much as a Google of who he was, that’s on you. If Pleasance didn’t brief their staff of what kind of act he was, that’s on them. 

Just now, Keith Houchen said:

I see, interesting counterpoint. You display the sophistry not seen since Bophadese captivated the Ancient Greek theatres. 

If you can’t see the comparison of two one man shows involving men whipping their knob out then I’m not here to spell it out for you. 
 

Sadowitz isn’t the first act to use nudity at the Fringe, he’s probably not even the only act to use it this year. 

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

That’s great but what does that have to do with this topic?

3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

It also negates your point about people would’ve known what they were getting from him. More people have heard his name than seen his stuff. 
 

Did they know in advance he was going to get his cock out to a woman in the front row? And if all the staff said they weren’t comfortable with it, they would’ve had to cancel the show and arseholes would be conflating free speech and censorship with a platform. 

Getting your cock out to an audience member is not on, I can’t really comment on the racial slurs because context is important, maybe he was parodying old Tory members and their attitude towards sexism and racism “I’m not voting for a p*ki” is something you’d imagine then saying for instance. But let’s not pretend that the audience and staff members are at fault, it’s the bloke who waved his Willy at a woman. 

I went to see a one man show of Irvine Welsh’s Filth a few years ago, my friend was the director. The actor got his knob out and simulated receiving a blow job from a 15 year old. It was her first 5 star show. 

5 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

I live in Edinburgh and I’ve been to a few things at Pleasance so far this month and I had no idea he was performing until Keith posted in this thread. Not that I’ve been looking out for his posters specifically, but I’ve certainly not seen any advertising around town for him - and there’s a lot of Pleasance advertising around town.

Fair enough, cheers. Sadly, don’t think I’ll make it up this year. And now that I’ve had a coffee I’ve remembered from speaking to people who’ve had shows at the Festival that it’s generally the act that pays for promotion anyway. 

7 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Maybe they had heard the name but hadn’t heard his stuff. They should’ve at least looked on YouTube to watch all the clips of him that he spends a lot of time having removed. 

Heres another view, staff members complained about hearing racist slurs and a man getting his cock out, so the venue supported their employees by making sure they weren’t subjected to it again. 

Yeah, that’s kind of my point. He goes out of his way to make sure people don’t stumble upon his work. Doesn’t appear on tv, doesn’t record, doesn’t release DVDs and spends time and effort making sure his stuff on YouTube is removed. He’s apologised for others who try to imitate him but without the nuance and said that if he ever felt like he was become an Alf Garnett like act then he’d pack it in. 
 

Or maybe the venue, who absolutely will have known what kind of act he was, should have shown some due diligence and ensured that anyone who may have been uncomfortable with the act wasn’t subjected to it in the first place. 

It’s already too hot to go outside, so I’ll engage. 
 

He’s been voted one of the best comedians of all time, he’s frequently lauded by other comedians and artists as a pioneer of black comedy and regularly referenced as an inspiration for many of your mainstream comedians. He’s  spoken about not recording much of his work because of how it can be perceived by those who don’t know what he’s about. This is conjecture but I’d be surprised if Pleasance weren’t pushing him as one of their biggest draws of the festival before this. He hasn’t changed, this is his act, he wants the audience to dislike him and to feel uncomfortable, it’s called performance. Until yesterday he was revered comedian, today he’s been “cancelled” for doing the same shit he’s been doing for decades.  
 

edit: one day I’ll learn to proof read.

Just now, Uncle Zeb said:

How so?

See edit ^

5 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said:

I don't mean to be anal, but I'm curious about a real-world example of your distinction between deplatforming undesirables and the outright censorship that we're moving into?

Who's been censored that wasn't an undesirable being deplatformed?

Sadowitz. And fuck off with you “gotcha” attempts.

I mean, it’s 2022, if ableism, incest, murder, rape, genocide, infanticide are considered a good tv show or washed aside as “well you know what you’re getting from him, bloody snowflakes” then TV shows are not for me. 
 

This one’s about the most successful tv show of all time, if you haven’t seen it you can catch it on Sky’s “entertainment” section. 

6 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said:

What makes you say that?

Because of the polarisation of todays society some people just seem desperate to show their credentials. Whether it’s middle-class libs white knighting or right-wing mouthpieces screaming down criticism while, ironically, crying about free speech.

Sadowitz’s gimmick has always been offense to the point of revulsion.

I’d be surprised if Sadowitz’s show wasn’t one of the most expensive on at the Fringe that day, anyone who booked a ticket did so knowing what kind of act Sadowitz is. Pleasance theatre will have known what kind of act Sadowitz is and should have discussed this with their staff. 
I’m starting to get the feeling we’re moving from deplatforming undesirables to outright censorship. A dangerous road to go down. 

10 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said:

If Labour had received the most non-Tory votes in my constituency last election then I'd absolutely be voting for them in the next one, even if I had to hold my nose while doing so. I'm not going to let perfect be the enemy of better, and hold the country to ransom under Tory rule while insisting any replacement be everything I desire. Times are too desperate for too many for me to hold out for ideological purity right now.

Your mileage may very.

Tell that to the Blairites that scuppered Labour’s best chance of installing a proper socialist government in 2017.