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23 minutes ago, Cousin Jim Bob said:

Sugar Ray Robinson lost to a couple of Brits as his career was winding down but he was 128-1-2 when Randolph Turpin beat him. That has to be the best. Ray was arguably pound for pound the greatest boxer ever in his prime.

Yep.

I withdraw my previous comment that Duran was the best boxer that a British boxer has defeated. 

This was boxing historian Kyle McLachlan's top 10 list from a few years back. He ranks them based on the quality of opponents defeated. As someone who knows fuck all about certain eras of boxing, I find McLachlan's insight on this sort of thing invaluable. 

10: Barney Ross
9: Bob Fitzsimmons
8: Willy Pep
7: Muhammad Ali
6: Ezzard Charles
5: Roberto Duran
4: Sam Langford
3: Sugar Ray Robinson
2: Henry Armstrong
1: Harry Greb

1 minute ago, Egg Shen said:

The Hatton/Tszyu one is weird for me because ive been sold on it purely from how its been told to me from a historical British boxing standpoint. When that fight i was kind of was made i had no idea who Tszyu was, i just knew that it was being sold to us that it was abit of an impossible task for Hatton. Tsyzu was 35 at the time and it turned out to be his last fight, so in reality Hatton probably got a Tszyu on the way down. Boxing is all about timing.

Tszyu was certainly a bit past-it, but he could still go. He'd just stopped Sharmba Mitchell inside 3 rounds. A boxer that went on to last longer against Paul Williams and Mayweather. 

3 hours ago, Mr Lawrence said:

An unmotivated Lewis ripping Vitali’s face to shreds is one of the most underrated victories by a British fighter. Vitali was regarded as the stronger of the Klitchko brothers and was coming into his prime and a late replacement if i remember. Lewis was overweight and sluggish and probably should have retired after Tyson, but he still done the business and Vitali would go on and reign for 10 years after the fight.

I love that fight and both boxers involved in it. 

Lennox was always tougher and more durable than most gave him credit for. Whereas Vitali was always the better of the two Klitschko brothers in my opinion, even if Wladamir had the better career. Wlad had the better jab and had more power, but Vitali had a better chin and was trickier. 

Around a year ago when this picture emerged, some were hyping Lima as the fighter to beat Usman, which is partially why I came to perceive him as overrated. For example, Josh Thomson claimed that Lima could defend a few of Usman's takedowns and tire him out. An opinion I found outrageous! Not only because of Usman's superior wrestling, but also his insane cardio. If they did fight, I can only see Lima getting taken down repeatedly and losing 50-45 on the cards. 

As for his striking, some forget that MVP actually didn't do too bad against him while their fight lasted. MVP had some decent success in the striking department and defended well off his back. Against Mousasi, a fight which was also primarily a striking battle, he simply wasn't busy enough! Which again, is a key weakness of his. He has some very good weapons, which I credited for above, but I don't think he's the 170lbs Mirko Cro Cop like some make him out to be.

Now, the talk of him being an Usman-beater has cooled since he lost to Mousasi. However, given that the bookies have him as a slight favourite to beat Amosov tonight, which I don't think he will, I still think he's overrated to some extent. For the reasons I noted above, I consider Amosov to be a terrible match-up for him.

I actually like him as a person and enjoy watching him fight. However, I think he'd only be a top 10 Welterweight in the UFC rather that a legitimate contender. 

47 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I also think some of it is people wanting to put a Bellator guy on that pedestal because he’s not in the UFC, the rooting for the underdogs thing. I said similar about Ryan Bader on here a while back and I think most disagreed. But I definitely think there’s an element of some fans bigging certain fighters up more than is probably warranted because they’re in Bellator and it’s an alternative to the big bully in the game. 

There is certainly some truth to this. I am anti-UFC at heart, and therefore will always root for the number 2 promotion and its fighters. 

In Bader's case, he might surprise a few people if he returns to the UFC. Not because he's a great fighter, but because the 205lbs division is utter pish beyond 4 or 5 fighters. If Glover can put enough wins together to get a UFC title shot at 41, then there is a good chance that the likes of Bader, Davis, etc, could too. 

Not sure which bothers me more. 

@wandshogun09having a Gif of GAD on his hard drive. 

Or Ebb enjoying Face The Pain.

Two of my strongest MMA beliefs will be put to test tomorrow. 

1) That Lima is the most overrated Brazilian fighter since Anderson Silva. 

2) That Amosov is the 2nd best fighter on Bellator's roster behind Pitbull. 

Let's see if I am right or talking bollocks. 

Rancid stuff. 

Not sure about Calzaghe vs Lacy. Nothing against Joe's performance, but Lacy was nowhere near as good as the Americans hyped him up to be. 

Honeyghan vs Curry is a good shout. 

Fury smashing Wladamir is the best in recent years that I can remember. 

There was a rumour that he'd died in late 2012 as well - https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/news-circulating-that-kirkland-laing-passed-away-on-thursday.441115/

14 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Beat Duran (in what really should be talked about more as one of the best wins by a British fighter) but then just disappeared for a year.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a better boxer than Duran that a British fighter has beaten. 

That said, it probably isn't the best win in British boxing history. The version of Duran that Laing beat wasn't particularly good. Duran had ballooned to 185lbs in the months before the bout, and the weight-cut to 155lbs drained him of his power and stamina. He didn't really impress in his next fight against Jimmy Batten either. It was the Cuevas bout where Duran started to turn his career around. 

Top Rank's stable includes Taylor, Inoue, Beterbiev and Crawford. 

I'd be up for watching those lot on Sky. 

Indeed:

Not long now:

9 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

yeah I meant Pacquiao on the Margarito bit. I was using that as an example of Manny’s list of wins not exactly being without flaws itself. Was just pointing out that you can find issues with anyone’s record if you look long enough

People expected ODH to massacre Manny. It was only afterwards that it became clear that ODH was finished. 

Nevertheless, I don't consider Pacquiao to be the GOAT or anywhere close to it either. So a lot of what I have said about Mayweather, also applies to Manny. 

36 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And most of his well known wins were after his hands were damaged as well.

Ahhh yes, but that is also where competing in the current era helped him greatly. 

In previous eras, boxers fought more frequently. Therefore, had Mayweather boxed in a previous era, his career would not have lasted anywhere near as long. He would be remembered as a very talented guy who had hand problems, rather than a boxer with incredible longevity. 

He was made for the era in which he boxed in. Which in my opinion didn't have the talent of some of the eras that came before it, and didn't punish a lack of durability as unduly. 

Is he an all-time great? Certainly. But he isn't as great as most think he is imo. 

Just now, David said:

How many fights did he go into where we'd hear that this was the time he's getting beaten? Or at least dropped? And he changed shit up and won. I think he'd do the same with Leonard. 

Leonard was just as good at adapting. 

Watch his bouts with Hearns and Kalule. 

1 minute ago, David said:

Duran would have been too slow. Simple as that. We also have to take into account that Floyd, being the more modern fighter, would have had the advantage in athleticism and he'd have been far smarter than Duran in there. A few rounds of shoulder rolls and Duran would be losing his temper. Another good fight to think about though.

I also have to ask the question, are we talking about Floyd pre or post glass hands? Because if we're talking pre, that sways me even more in his favour. 

You seriously underrate Duran as a boxer. 

Both versions. The route to victory I described gave both versions of Mayweather serious problems. 

Genuine question, do you rate Maidana and Castillo as better boxers than Duran? 

20 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And smashing up a near blind Margarito. 

It was Pac-man that smashed up Margarito's eye. 

7 minutes ago, David said:

My opinion? No version of Pacquiao beats Floyd. Fuck, even a slower version you'd expect to have some semblance of success, but he got handily beaten. 

I actually agree with this. 

7 minutes ago, David said:

See, that's the thing about boxing. Someone like Floyd will see their greatness count against them. In boxing, fans favour the fighter who goes in there and engages in all-out wars, gets knocked down, loses, comes back, wins, loses again, gets their brain rattled around.

I would have loved to see Leonard face Mayweather, but I would have picked Floyd to beat him, and think he'd have made a mockery of Hearns, Hagler and certainly Duran. Considering Duran lost the plot and walked away when Leonard boxed him to bits, imagine if he'd fought Floyd? Not being able to connect? Being made to look slow? It would have been "no mas" all over the shop.

Mayweather would have very little for Leonard imo. Leonard could jab with him, batter him on the inside, and most of all would drown him with his powerful combination punching. Sure, Mayweather's defence was superb, but Leonard was no strange to figuring out defensive wizards (see his fight with Benitez)

Hearns would destroy him! The way to beat Hearns at the lower weights was to out punch him as Leonard did. He was near enough impossible to out-box at that weight as Leonard, Benitez and Duran found out. Mayweather would not have the power or combo punching to get Hearns's respect. 

Duran? Well considering that Mayweather backed up in straight lines, it's easy to imagine a prime version of Duran backing him up and drowning him against the ropes. Duran was one of the best inside fighters of all-time and would have no issue taking Mayweather apart at that range. As this excellent article argues, Mayweather came closest to defeat in his career due to being backed up in a straight line by two boxers who were by no means in the same league as Duran - https://www.thefight-site.com/home/floyd-mayweather-solving-the-riddle?rq=floyd

16 minutes ago, David said:

He's never been shaken, never mind knocked down.

15 minutes ago, Cousin Jim Bob said:

His choice of ring size, his judges, his ref, his venue, his gloves.

He took the piss with drug testing too.

- https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

- https://web.archive.org/web/20160412123515/https://www.boxnation.com/boxing-news/was-floyd-mayweather-really-dehydrated-the-fallout-from-can-boxing-trust-usada/

As for his most notable wins, David is right when he says that Mayweather fought a lot of them at the right time.

Pacquiao - Had slowed down considerably by 2015. Also entered the fight with an injured shoulder.

Cotto - Had been involved in wars with Clottey, Margarito and Pacquiao. 

Canelo - Nowhere near the fighter he later became. 

He doesn't have a single win on his record that is as impressive as say Duran's win over Leonard, Leonard's win over Hearns, or Hearns' win over Duran. Which is partially why I don't rank him as highly as any of the Fab 4 all-time. I also think that Duran, Hearns and Leonard would all have given Mayweather fits head to head, albeit for different reasons. 

3 minutes ago, David said:

Well, apart from him then. Winky fucking Wright is the exception to the long and storied career Mayweather had of comfortably beating the best for the most part. 

What could have been for ol' Winky, eh?

Winky would have probably beaten the prick actually 😉

1 minute ago, David said:

He's ducked no one during his career.

Eh?

Mayweather clearly ducked Winky Wright. 

He called Wright out in 2005. Wright agreed to his demands, and then Mayweather and Arum pulled out. 

1 hour ago, SuperBacon said:

Parts 3 and 4 of The Kings here 

  Hide contents

https://www4.watchserieshd.tv/series/the-kings-season-12021-episode-3

Have skimmed through it and it's of a very good quality, but obviously want to watch them all in order so if anyone comes across 1 and 2 before me, then please pop it in here!

https://www4.watchserieshd.tv/series/the-kings-season-12021-episode-1

https://www4.watchserieshd.tv/series/the-kings-season-12021-episode-2

I just typed the episode numbers into the address you supplied. It's a little trick that sometimes works. 

Thanks for the link. That's my afternoon sorted! 

Great article by Thomas Hauser on the Antonio Margarito hand-wrap scandal- https://web.archive.org/web/20100815073034/https://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/antonio-margarito-and-the-handwrap-issue--

It was published in the summer of 2010 just before Margarito fought Pacquiao. It covers all of the nuances surrounding the scandal. As someone who only knew superficial details of the scandal, I found it very informative. 

Amosov should be able to exploit Lima's bad habit of backing himself into the fence. Amosov is really good at backing his opponents up with strikes while at the same protecting his chin, and then scoring takedowns against the fence when his opponent runs out of space. Even if Lima tries to push forward, the threat of a takedown will be there. Amosov is also very good at reactive takedowns as he showed against Ruth.  

It's true that stamina was an issue for Amosov in his last fight, but that came while fighting Logan Storley, a pressure wrestler who constantly made him work. By contrast, Lima is primarily a striker, who while having powerful leg kicks and a decent left hook, is fairly low in his output. He is therefore unlikely to drain Amosov's reserves in the same way that Storley did. 

Given all this, I foresee Amosov dominating with his grappling and winning a wide unanimous decision. 

Fun video on Salikhov by Slack: