Paid Members JNLister Posted July 5, 2007 Paid Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 No, I've very specifically made a point of not saying wrestling is "to blame" or "responsible" for any of the deaths. As I said, there are very few careers of any kind where you can specifically point to the job as the direct cause of deaths. Â But clearly the whole package of being a wrestler (working matches, injuries, painkillers, star status, travel schedule, body building drugs, recreational drug abuse) contributes to making it more likely that a wrestler will die early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBT Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wait, is that list a list of all wrestlers that have died in the past twenty years or the past ten? Because Adonis and a few others are included but died outside of the time frame specified in the second line of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted July 5, 2007 Paid Members Share Posted July 5, 2007 No, I've very specifically made a point of not saying wrestling is "to blame" or "responsible" for any of the deaths. As I said, there are very few careers of any kind where you can specifically point to the job as the direct cause of deaths.But clearly the whole package of being a wrestler (working matches, injuries, painkillers, star status, travel schedule, body building drugs, recreational drug abuse) contributes to making it more likely that a wrestler will die early.Surely the point of the article was to highlight the problems with Wrestling and to further the argument that something needs to be done, in which case, those accidental deaths don't really support the arguement in the same way that heart attack deaths may do and while you made a point of not saying wrestling was responsible or to blame, you also didn't point out that it wasn't in certain deaths. I think a lot of people reading that article at this point it time would come away with the impression that most of the 104 would still be alive had it not been for their involvement in this profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted July 5, 2007 Moderators Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wrestlers in Astin indictment namedDave@wrestlingobserver.comThe web site tmz.com today listed Oscar Gutierrez (Rey Mysterio) and Mark Jindrak as the O.G. and M.J. listed in the indictment against Dr. Phil Astin for distribution of painkillers.The names of both were believed to be the case but prosecutors would not reveal more than the initials. Mark Madden on his radio show two nights ago, did mention Gutierrez by name, who he has known for years from his WCW days, as the O.G. in the indictment.Uh oh, spagetti-o's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIB Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Rey's wife would stand on him if he attempted a Benoit stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jerikel Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I've been watching this thread since the news broke and have gone to reply several times - only to find I can't say what I want to.I've been a major Benoit mark for a number of years and was stunned to find that this has happened - and I'm still having problems reconciling what I know he did with the person I saw on television and read interviews with. I know, you never really can tell through something so generic, but it's still hard for me to wrap my head around. Do I think anyone who murders a seven year old is an evil shit? Yes. But it's still not quite connected in my head.The way that certain wrestlers use the tragedy as an excuse to bitch has sickened me. Others have made me feel better about being a wrestling fan. Good and bad on every side.What did get me cross was the slamming of the WWE for their tribute show. With the facts that they had, they did what they thought was the right thing to do, namely pay tribute to someone who had died. They had a live show and were not in possession of all the facts. Of course, some factions have to vilify them for that. If Raw had been filmed a day later, then yes, I would agree it to be inappropriate. But it wasn't.About the not watching of WWE: I have not really watched WWE for a year or so, I've been keeping tuned to TNA because I prefer the product they air over the WWE dross that seems to have been aired lately. I've kept up, but not really kept a close watch. But although it's easy to say "Don't watch", it's not going to change an awful lot. As long as people keep tuning in, the WWE will have no reason to change their programming - and if peple wish to watch wrestling, there's not a lot of other choices. TNA doesn't show everywhere, some casual fans don't like the less polished production. And other promotions are even less accessible. WWE is a brand name, and like it or not, it's what people think of when they think wrestling.I do think that this terrible event will change the wrestling landscape. There really is nothing else that can even compare - no other wrestling death has hit quite so hard or had such far reaching implications. It would be nice - if naive - to think that this would mean the lessening of workloads and steriod issues (and to be honest, I think that the steroids may have contributed to the Benoit murders, but certainly can't be held 100% responsible). Things will change - what those changes are to be is yet to be seen.And just as a finishing point - Hogan's comments made me want to vomit. Okay, he wasn't the only one, but he springs to mind. I hope they bury him in something flame-retardant. He'll need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Actually, of all the recent deaths, the Benoit case is the one that arguably has LEAST to do with wrestling's problems. Lots of wrestlers die for one reason or another, but none that we know of killed their wife and kid. For the mainstream media though, innocent victims are much more important than any number of pro wrestlers.Also, on the "is wrestling to blame?" issue - as John pointed out, wrestlers in the territories did a TON of driving, all the time. Late at night, often at high speed, almost always while very tired (they'd have wrestled that night or at best, the night before) and in many cases, drunk or high. Obviously that's not the FAULT of wrestling, but it's a culture where it's not considered bad to be wasted at work or getting in the car afterwards, not to mention the way the guys are built up to be supermen and to feel invulnerable. And on the Mike Awesome case, I think Chris Nowinski would have a lot to say about a man becoming strangely depressed after a career of taking unprotected chairshots to the skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Surf Digby Posted July 6, 2007 Paid Members Share Posted July 6, 2007 I was surprised by the Ricky Steamboat interview the other night on TWC. Steamboat has always enjoyed the reputation of a clean living familiy man, but he was quite open about how he had used speed and other drugs during his career, saying that driving for long hours across different time zones, not getting the proper amount of rest or food, then guys often need the pick me ups.I was also surprised that Steve Blackman didn't mention the issue of concussions, particulary as it was this that caused his own early retirement. Great interview by Konnan though. Guys like him, Jericho, Booker T and DeMott should be getting the news spots that Debra and Chyna have wangled their way into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Oh God no. DeMott was fucking horrible. Don't get me wrong, Debra was screechy and annoying, but her points were largely valid. DeMott is the only person I've seen on TV more ostrich-like than Jerry McDevitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted July 6, 2007 Paid Members Share Posted July 6, 2007 And just as a finishing point - Hogan's comments made me want to vomit. Okay, he wasn't the only one, but he springs to mind. I hope they bury him in something flame-retardant. He'll need it.So what was so terrible about his comments? The hypocrisy was obvious, but aside from that there was nothing particularly bad, at least not from the small quote on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted July 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2007 So what was so terrible about his comments? The hypocrisy was obvious, but aside from that there was nothing particularly bad, at least not from the small quote on here."Nancy was to blame because she was into devil worshipping stuff" doesn't seem bad to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted July 6, 2007 Paid Members Share Posted July 6, 2007 So what was so terrible about his comments? The hypocrisy was obvious, but aside from that there was nothing particularly bad, at least not from the small quote on here."Nancy was to blame because she was into devil worshipping stuff" doesn't seem bad to you?It would be if that's what he actually said, but it wasn't, at least not from the quotes on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted July 6, 2007 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2007 So what was so terrible about his comments? The hypocrisy was obvious, but aside from that there was nothing particularly bad, at least not from the small quote on here."Nancy was to blame because she was into devil worshipping stuff" doesn't seem bad to you?It would be if that's what he actually said, but it wasn't, at least not from the quotes on here.Lets see...Wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan was shocked when the WWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Lowe Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sickboy, are you seriously suggesting that a wrestling gimmick Nancy Benoit used over 20 years ago isn't credible evidence she was a devil worshipper? Surely not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Lowe Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Marc Mero and Steve Blackman were on CNN last night. A very heated debate it was too.  Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQleKcJZNys  Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDqfVrQu6DI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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