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Official ROH Discussion Thread


alexander

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Not sure if anyone's noticed, but Lo-Ki has been booked for FIP's May 21st event. So the odds of him appearing in DG:USA just increased a touch I'd say

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Can't find the PWG thread, so here's the partial cards for their All Star Weekend 8 set to take place the last weekend of May:

 

Night 1-

 

Joey Ryan & Scorpio Sky vs Brian Cage & Ryan Taylor

Kevin Steen vs Willie Mack

Kenny King vs Chuck Taylor

El Generico vs Ricochet

Eddie Edwards vs Akira Tozawa

Low Ki vs Alex Shelley

Claudio Castagnoli vs Chris Hero

 

Night 2-

 

Chuck Taylor vs Ricochet

Kevin Steen & Akira Tozawa vs Johnny Goodtime & Johnny Yuma

Chris Hero vs Willie Mack

Austin Aries & Roderick Strong vs The Young Bucks

Eddie Edwards vs El Generico

 

 

 

I really *really* wish I lived in the states so I could convince my fiancee that a flight to Cali is shorter than an international flight....

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We do need an official PWG thread, I might start it myself when I get round to watching the 2011 stuff. ASW 8 looks a bit tasty. Is Lo-Ki booked for both nights? I think I read somewhere that Shelley was only there for Night 1.

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Richards vs Daniels - Chicago Ridge, IL - 16/10/10

 

Kyle O'Reilly & Adam Cole vs The All Night Express - A really good opener, with Cole & O'Reilly looking properly competitive throughout. Titus debuts that new finisher I said he needed... and I hate it. O'Reilly takes a knee-based variation of MVP's Playmaker (a really, really shit finish) and gets pinned at 11:01.

 

Andy "Right Leg" Ridge vs Ricky Reyes - In the second match of his trial series, Ridge again looks like a wrestler here rather than a student, which is a plus. He needs to ditch the pleather shorts next. Ridge is probably allowed to kick out of some inappropriate spots though, especially a brainbuster, before Reyes pins him after a powerbomb and that spinning neckbreaker at 8:49. Reyes berates Ridge afterwards, and Ridge lays him out with a superkick. Take that, you goon.

 

Daizee Haze & Jamilia Craft vs Lady JoJo & Neveah - In the second fan-related incident in as many shows, some bloke pours water on Lady JoJo's chest as she makes her entrance. Needless to say, that does NOT go down well. Unlike Andy Ridge in the previous match, Jamilia is a student and comes across as one. The match is decent when Daizee is in there, passable otherwise. Neveah pins Jamilia with a rollup at 8:57.

 

Homicide vs Kevin Steen - These two do a good job here of convincing you that they still hold a grudge from their 2005 ROH bout that didn't exactly earn Steen a full time spot on the roster at that point. This doesn't really qualify as a wrestling match for the most part, as they seem to spend most of it brawling or trying to gross out the crowd, Steen especially. Still, Homicide certainly does better here than vs Kenny King the night before, and while the standard version doesn't get a count at all, he goes on to win with a middle rope ace crusher at 14:55. 'Cide actually puts some people over on the mic afterwards, but when he mentions El Generico, Steen rushes back out and they have a heated pull-apart.

 

Mike Mondo vs The Metal Master - A decent little wrestling match here. Metal Master earns a submission win with a crossface at 7:18. I think Mondo would offer more than the masked Chad Collyer if used regularly, though.

 

The Kings of Wrestling vs Jay & Mark Briscoe - As already mentioned, a 2-on-2 elimination match is a pretty stupid idea. The first fall starts out as a fight and has some action to the standard you'd expect between these teams, ending when the Briscoes go for the doomsday device and Hero counters the clothesline with the loaded elbow to eliminate Mark at 10:33. The Kings then struggle to put away Jay, and in the end fail miserably, as Claudio is pinned off a Jay Driller out of nowhere then Hero tries a rolling elbow and is pinned by a backslide at 13:51. The crowd like that, but overall it's a throwaway encounter in the grand scheme of the feud.

 

I Quit Match: Steve Corino vs Colt Cabana - A bit of a weird one to review this, it's some way from the best of I Quit matches, yet also somehow better than the sum of its parts. There's lots of shortcuts, yet somehow you have to think in this case the match benefits from them. The big one is Kevin Steen in a straightjacket at ringside, which is obviously not going to last - Corino makes his first attempt at freeing Steen inside the first minute, and Steen is loose just after eleven minutes in. Corino and Cabana start with submission wrestling before going for the weapons route, with Corino's attempt to use a broken beer bottle backfiring on him and Cabana cutting open Corino's arm. Once Steen is loose, the match turns into a 2-on-1, but with no Generico on the show, and Homicide now not there, it's down to extra refs and a bunch of trainees to make the save and subdue Steen, then Cabana straps Corino in the straightjacket, powerbombs him through a table, then uses a piece of the table to make Corino say the two words at 16:59. A decent effort, and the spin-off to Steen/Generico is done...

 

Christopher Daniels vs Davey Richards - A reasonable attempt at an epic main event, though the first ten minutes are pretty much irrelevent. It was noticeable that Kevin Kelly refers to Daniels winning at Glory By Honor IX with a Super Angels Wings, but omits the name of Austin Aries, who Daniels beat, yet on an exchange of Ankle Locks, refers to Daniels wrestling Kurt Angle. Talk about ROH dumping Aries like a bad habit. The match builds steadily through the middle to a well timed hot finish, and there's some really good spots in the final few minutes before Richards gets a well earned submission win with an Indian Deathlock variation of the Ankle Lock at 28:41. Daniels then looks tearful in the post-match as he puts over Davey but still has Roderick Strong and the ROH World Title in his sights. It was a good match Chris, but it wasn't THAT good. Calm down dear.

 

Overall - A solid A show for Chicago, bearing in mind neither the World champ, his predecessor (obviously) or successor were anywhere to be found. The main event almost lived up to the six months of build. DVD run time is 2 hours, 37 minutes, with promos featuring half a dozen of the participants in Survival Of The Fittest in the extras.

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Talk about ROH dumping Aries like a bad habit

 

It's amazing how Cary and Gabe are similar in some respects - although ROH didn't go down the Gabe route and say "Dan "Austin Aries" Sewold has left the company". He must have done something to piss Silkin off one assumes.

 

Re Titus finisher - it really annoys when talent and/or commentators don't come up with names for moves. Granted, it does allow me to come up with amusing names for said moves, but still... Back in the day Prazak would have been on top of that kind of thing, but he's been coasting for years now in ROH.

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I think Prazak is an OK foil for Kevin Kelly at the moment - KK really seems to be enjoying himself.

 

Survival Of The Fittest - Dearborn, MI - 12/11/10

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: Colt Cabana vs Rhett Titus - Back to the comedy for Cabana after the decent, serious feud-ender with Steve Corino the show prior. This would be watchable if you hadn't seen it all before. Thankfully, Titus gets the nod here, albeit in screwy fashion as he uses the ringbell followed by a rollup for the pin at 8:21.

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: Claudio Castagnoli vs Grizzly Redwood - Claudio keeps it short here, though Grizzly gets a few spots before falling to the UFO at 5:05. Next...

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: Kevin Steen vs Kyle O'Reilly - The first match of any real note, this is a good outing for O'Reilly though he is still very much being booked as an up-and-comer in ROH, and Steen always looks the likely victor. Steen underlines this by not even going for a pin after the package piledriver, instead putting on Generico's mask and adding a brainbuster for good measure before getting the pin at 10:19.

 

Before the next match, Steen flips out at some random fans, and Corino struggles to restrain him. This looks like the planting of seeds for Corino going face in 2011...

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: Steve Corino vs Adam Cole - This is more of a continuation of the Steen/Corino story than a match of any note for its own good points. The action is going okay, Steen starts commentating on the mic, Cole kicks Steen in the mouth, then counters the thumb to the ass with a rollup for an upset that doesn't really put him over that much. El Generico saves Cole from a beatdown afterwards, but gets a Michinoku Driver off the apron through a table for his troubles.

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: Eddie Edwards vs Chris Hero - This is the first match of the show that doesn't have the ref calling for the bell because one guy has jumped the other. It's also a match where you're left thinking about what might have been, as they build pretty slowly, Hagadorn keeps distracting Edwards, then Edwards injures his shoulder on a massive dive, and they have to improvise a quick finish where Hero accidentally hits Hagadorn then gets rolled into the Achilles Lock, giving Edwards the submission win at 13:42. Not much to this, as it stands.

 

Survival Of The Fittest Qualifying Match: El Generico vs Kenny King - Any spark this match may have had is taken away by Generico having to sell the effects of going through the table earlier. King clubbers him for about six minutes, Generico tries a comeback, but King counters his missile dropkick with Trouble in Paradise to the ribs and follows up with the shotgun knees and a rollup, and that's it in 7:53. Next...

 

Andy "Right Leg" Ridge vs Homicide - Homicide makes it clear in his pre-match promo that he's not impressed with the idea of wrestling Ridge, and it shows as he gives Ridge nothing in the match, beating on him the whole time and blocking the superkick easily before hitting the Ace Crusher and a Lariat for a one-sided victory in 9:51. Ridge doesn't look impressed on his way out, this made the Cabana and Reyes matches look great for him.

 

Christopher Daniels and The Briscoes vs Roderick Strong & The House of Truth - This is the first DVD outing of the new HOT, that is Zach Gowen and Michael Elgin. It's a shame Raymond and Able aren't about, as they might have made the first half of this match more interesting. Things do pick up nicely after a couple of quick hot tags, first to Mark Briscoe who beats on Gowen, then to Daniels who levels everyone. Credit to Elgin and Gowen for contributing to a good finishing stretch though, starting with a dive sequence and including some good HOT combos. Daniels predictably pins Gowen with the BME at 20:59 to build to his title shot the next night. A decent conclusion didn't quite save the match overall though.

 

Survival Of The Fittest Final: Rhett Titus vs Claudio Castagnoli vs Kevin Steen vs Adam Cole vs Eddie Edwards vs Kenny King - Steen comes out in handcuffs here, to ensure the safety of the crowd presumably, though his 'escort' of The Bravado Brothers don't look like they could stop Steen even in handcuffs. Generico runs out and blasts Steen the minute he's out of handcuffs, and Steen is then eliminated by a Claudio bicycle kick in under ten seconds. The crowd likes that, but then quietens quickly as King and Titus jump Claudio and double team him. Claudio makes his own comeback to tag in Cole, but the ANX overwhelm Cole, then when Cole comes back Claudio short-arms him on a tag and sneaks in to eliminate him with a lariat at 9:18. King and Titus again jump Claudio, and again Claudio makes his own comeback and eliminates Titus with the pop-up European at 12:17.

 

At this point, the ANX look like a team that just can't get the job done, and Claudio looks like doing a Hero, circa 2007. Claudio then pulls on the bad arm of Eddie Edwards, who had probably only had thirty seconds in the ring to this point, and he goes to the back, leaving a period of Claudio vs King where Claudio becomes the crowd's half-hearted choice. That changes when Edwards comes back out, and a kick from Edwards followed by the Royal Flush from King is enough to eliminate Claudio at 17:49. Edwards and King then have a heated two minute segment, with Edwards winning a vicious-looking headbutt duel almost worthy of Danielson vs McGuinness, King trapping Edwards in his own half crab, but Edwards escapes and gets the move for himself by countering an overhead kick, and twisting King into a nasty position for the submission at 19:48.

 

A good two minutes at the end aside, the Survival Of The Fittest final continues the tradition of never being anywhere near as good as the first time round way back in 2004. I really don't know why they bother. I guess I have one more reason to look forward to King vs Edwards at World's Greatest, though...

 

Overall - Two minutes at the end of the main event and maybe seven minutes at the end of the six-man are the only really worthy things on this show. One to skip, unless you want the Best of Nigel McGuinness bonus disc. DVD run time for the main show is 2 hours, 32 minutes.

Edited by gadge
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SPOILER - Highlight the black box to read

Jay Lethal back in ROH eh? I thought he left in 2006 to become a big start in TNA?

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SPOILER - Highlight the black box to read

Yeah because Lethal leaving to be a big star in TNA is nothing like Rave, Daniels, Homicide, Aries or McGuiness?.

 

Difference is Lethal has been one of the main guys on a internationally syndicated program for the last 5 years, done one of the better gimmicks in recent times (even if a rip off), worked with huge names like Kevin Nash and made Ric Flair tap to his own finishing move.

 

So become a big star, yeah he pretty much has and if ROH are gonna put the tag titles on The Worlds Greatest Tag Team because of what they used to be I can see them putting the title on Lethal eventually too. If only to play off name value

 

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... and so, my big ROH catch-up begins...

 

I'm currently about 18 months behind, and haven't actually got around to watching any ROH whatsoever for about 7 months. I do get all the shows, with my last viewing being the Final Countdown Tour series, culminating in 'Glory By Honor XIII'. But, like I said, I watched those aaaaaages ago and so now it's time to get myself up-to-date.

 

Starting with:

 

ROH Clash of the Contenders (9 October 2009)

 

As has become customary now on ROH DVD releases, the presentation begins with a quick recap of the main happening from the last DVD event, in this case 'Glory By Honor XIII'. To put this show into context, this meant that Bryan Danielson and Nigel McGuinness had just left the promotion, The American WOlvers (Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards) had just retained the tag titles in a Ladder War match with El Generico and Kevin Steen, and Jim Cornette had just been introduced as the Executive Producer of ROH on HDNet. A neat, well-produced little package which gets it's point across.

 

Show starts with Jim Cornette coming out and outlining his intentions for the future of ROH. Naturally, he puts over the promotion, the roster and the action in a massive way with several digs at WWE, TNA and Vince Russo and, equally naturally, he earns a massive ovation from the crowd. A short, well-received promo spot which effectively introduces Cornette as a new on-screen authority figure.

 

First match on the DVD is Kevin Steen vs. Roderick Strong. After chasing the tag team titles all year with regular partner Generico, only to come up short against the Wolves in the final climatic decider last show, ROH storylines currently see Steen at a loss, not knowing where to direct his interest and motivation next. Although this was a bout between two babyfaces with no agenda or reason, I was impressed that this bout did come across as though they were actually fighting for something, thus making you care about what they were doing. Match saw Steen struggle with his bad knee throughout. Steen locked in a sharpshooter, his usual go-to submission hold ('cause he's Canadian, see, and every Canadian has to use the sharpshooter) but Strong got to the ropes. Strong then responsed with his gutbuster from off his shoulders, but Steen kicked out. Strong clamped on his own submission finisher, the Stronghold (Boston Crab), following up with his tasty-looking running/jumping big boot when Steen escaped. Finish saw Steen hit his package piledriver, but his injured knee was giving him a bit of jip and so he was slow in crawling over to make the cover. By the time he did so, Strong reversed into his own cradle out of nowhere for the 3-count. A good, solid 10-minute opener (but nowhere near deserving of the "That was awesome" chant the mongs in the audience decided to throw their way. Post-match, Steen was in dispair that he had suffered the loss when being so close to victory.

 

The second offering on the disc is somewhat of a SHIMMER showcase, with SHIMMER Champion MsChif vs. Nicole Matthews, one half of the tag champs ('Canadian Ninjas', with Portia Perez). In ROH, MsChif was last seen as a member of Jimmy Jacobs' Age of the Fall heel stable but, with that faction coming to an end, is now suddenly a babyface again without explanation. Oh well. Unfortunately, the match was pretty sloppy and very awkward. The crowd was not familiar with the characters and, with this being an ROH-style action match rather than a character-based SHIIMER-style match, the audience was stone-cold dead to everything they did. Not a good match at all, and pretty painful to endure. Matthews appeared to suffer a bloody nose or lip at some point, before MsChif brought it to an end with her Desecrator.

 

Next up was the Austin Aries Lucky Lottery (or 'A-Double L-Double') segment. The gimmick is that ROH World Champion Aries claims to have the names of all the roster members in his hat and pulls one out at random. The lucky name then receives a World Title shot against Aries later in the show. Of course, it usually ends up being someone like Alex Payne or Grizzly Redwood that Aries supposedly selects at random, thus earning himself an easy title defence while avoiding the likes of real top challenger Tyler Black. Indeed, Aries this time pulled out the name of Daizee Haze, the lass that has been around ROH for years and is currently associated with Delirious. Both Hayes and Delirious come out to protest at this absurdity, with Delirious wanting to step up and take the match. A-Double refuses. Jim Cornette returns, stating that his role allows him to meddle in people's business, and officially makes the Austin Aries vs. Delirious title match as the show's main event. A decent enough segment which got the gimmick over...except for the fact that the arrogant, obnoxious, self-absorbed Aries was initially cheered by the majority of idiots here for "being a good heel".

 

A 4-way was next, Claudio Castagnoli vs. Ace Steel vs. Colt Cabana vs. Petey Williams. Claudio represents Prince Nana's Embassy, with Mr Ernesto Osiris (formerly tramp Dirty Ernie Osiris, until he came across Nana's fortune) at ringside, one of those weird bouts where the dastardly heel is classed as the underdog, here outnumbered against 3 babyface opponents. Indeed, when Castagnoli slapped all 3 faces with his glove to start the bout, they ganged up and beat the bejesus out of him. One of those non-stop matches where everyone takes it in turns to hit their own trademark spots on each other, leading to nearfalls before someone else just comes in a breaks it all up. As such, nothing really sinks in or leaves an impression. Williams hit th Canadian Destroyer on Cabana, but Claudio stopped the referee's hand from coming down for the 3. Castagnoli then hit Ace Steel with the Ricola Bomb for the win. Not much to this one.

 

Jay & Mark Briscoe vs. House of Truth is next along. HoT are Josh "Jugg" Raymond/Abercrombie (formerly of IWA Mid South and Wrestling Society X) and Christian Able, led by their odd biker-looking manager Truth Martini. I do like this guy. So far on ROH DVDs, they've been used as not much more than extended squash match fodder for other teams and, while they do get a fair deal of this bout, that wouldn't be an inaccurate description of this one here. The Briscoes dominate the early procedings, smacking Able and Raymond all over the place for ages. Martini finally gets involved, however, and things briefly change. Heat on Mark. Jay hot tags in and they go down the final straight. Josh goes WAAAAAY long on a moonsault from the post to the floor, sailing way over the ringside security barrier. Back in the ring, he spectacularly messes up a shooting star press. Martini ends up in the ring but is whipped hard into the buckles and takes an over-exaggerated bump to the floor. Wacky. Briscoes then hit a spike Jaydriller for the win. Match was what it was: enjoyable fun, but nothing special.

 

I should mention at this point that the DVD cover for this release features Davey Richards and Kenny Omeg on the front cover (NOTE: after seeing all those flyers that were put up all around Wolverhampton a few years ago for those stupid Indypendence Day events had him listed prominently on the front as Kenny Omeg, and I can't possibly call him anything different now). Indeed, Davey Richards vs. Kenny Omeg is the next on offer, and so I'm guessing that this would be the bout the DVD is marketed around. See, I never really got Kenny Omeg. He looked a bit naff in his early PWG and ROH matches, and when I saw him live at the aforementioned Indypendence Day, he looked crap there too. Since then, however, his PWG work seemed to click with me and I suddenly 'got' it. One of those PWG performances was actually against Richards, so I was looking out for what they could do here. Match was pretty good by the end. Again, however, the ROH Kenny Omeg failed to win me over completely. Their early exchanges and much of the bout seemed to serve no purpose except killing time before they started hitting big moves, signature spots, nearfalls and finishers at the very end. Having said that, when the bout did turn down the finishing stretch, it was pretty exciting stuff indeed. Very much so. The ROH crowd, of course, was going completely nuts at this point, seemingly ignoring the irrelevant and slightly dull 15 minutes which preceded this. "This is awesome (clap clap clapclapclap)". Not quite, but pretty damn good. Richards hit a huge release German suplex and followed up with a Texas Cloverleaf for a near-tap. Omeg used a Dragon Suplex and a cool-looking reverse frankensteiner for close calls of his own. Richards then broke out the Alarm Clock and went for the DR Driver, but was surprised by Kenny's inside cradle for a win the commentators put over as a massive upset. As I said, by the end it was really good, but it didn't need the over 20 minutes it got.

 

The Up-and-Cummers (Rhett Titus and Kenny King) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson) takes the disc forward. Titus is one of the few guys to come out of the ROH Wrestling Academy that actually ended up looking like a decent, credible and legitimate star. Still looks green at times, but has more conviction that any of the others to come through. King is becoming a very impressive talent indeed, and would strike me as someone that WWE and/or TNA may give a serious look to again in a year or two. Crowd was deadly silent for this one, though, since they didn't particularly know Young Bucks (remember, this was Octobe 2009) and didn't see King & Titus as stars. Decent, basic formula tag team match. Jacksons hit More Bang For Your Buck (or, as the Japanese commentators on the Dragon Gate disc I've just finished - also from 2009 - called it, "More Than Your Buck"), but legal man Titua sneaked in with a schoolboy for the crafty win. Didn't I just see that finish in the last match?

 

Positioned in the semi-main position was Tyler Black vs. Chris Hero (accompanied by the most pointless man in wrestling, Shane Hagadorn). Story of this one was Black's bad neck, which Black tried to keep protected during the contest and which Hero tried to target as often as he could. Match was therefore mostly Hero laying a beating on Tyler, before Tyler eventually started making his comeback. Lots of big elbow strikes and kicks from Hero, as we've come to expect from the SERIOUS Chris Hero. Black got the win with the God's Last Gift, which is basically a packaged brainbuster. Good, solid stuff, but nothing you would need to go out of your way to see.

 

Have to mention at this point, that has been bugging me for a while, is that the in-house unlicensed walk-out themes they use for everyone since the start of the PPV/HDNet era are all terrible. Like, really, really shit. I know that they can't use 'proper' songs anymore, fine, but surely they could do better than this?! Probably as bad as the music used in TNA, which is really saying something.

 

So, as announced earlier on, the main event was Austin Aries vs. Delirious for the ROH World Title. As you would expect to see from any ROH main event, even if it doesn't necessarily need, want or justify it, this match again lasted well over 20 minutes. Delirious has his squeeze Daizee Haze acting as cheerleader from ringside (though there isn't much of her to squeeze...), and the match was mainly Delirious being beat down, beat up and controlled but somehow managing to keep in it in front of somewhat of a 'hometown' audience (Delirious broke into the business in this area). In particular, Aries managed to hit his brainbuster finisher ON THE FLOOR, but Delirious managed to kick out of the subsequent pinfall attempt, which was probably a bit silly. The lizard man hit the Panic Attack (running knee strike in the corner), the Cobra Stretch and a Cobra Clutch suplex for his best ch\ance of the match, but the problem was you never really made you BELIEVE that he was ever going to take the belt. Although the commentators were trying to put over Delirious' big chance in front of his home crowd, the audience didn't really give a shit since they didn't give him a chance. Indeed, just seconds later, Aries hit a standard brainbuster for the win. Match itself, like the previous one, was decent enough, but nothing you would need to track down or ever see again.

 

So, that was that. A solid and enjoyable enough show, but one that really featured nothing of note. While nothing outside the womens' bout could be described as bad, there wasn't a single match that you would feel that anyone has to see. Unless you count Steen's loss, no storylines were advanced, no feuds were even touched on and you would not feel as though you missed anything if you had gave this DVD a miss. In an age of building towards a few truly 'big' and noteworthy events in the year and any happenings seem to occur on the weekly TV, this was a house show by any definition of that phrase: fun for those attending to get a chance to see ROH live, but nothing for the wider world to worry about.

 

Next up, from the very next night, is Survival of the Fittest 2009. "LOL" that Gadget, who used to be almost level with me in keeping up with ROH, has just watched and reviewed the 2010 version of that event....

Edited by Big Benny HG
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