Ranking the WrestleManias - The Top 10

[air_raid]

I'll give you brief thoughts on order - for me, XXX would probably be top 4 for me with X, XVII and XIX although I've not put much thought into the order (other than XVII top), and I base this 100% on rewatch value. It's a show I'm going to keep revisiting time and time again AND from start to finish, which puts it in an elite category for me. There aren't many Manias where the good so outweighs the "filler" that I can't be bothered skipping the filler (or PPVs for that matter, excusing 87-94 nostalgia watches).

 

But hey, you boys on the podcast dissect them show-by-show so I'll do the same.

 

WrestleMania XXX

I watched this WrestleMania live with one group of friends then again on the Monday night with another group who had not had the Monday off work and found it a complete delight both times. The second group were lapsed casual fans and they all enjoyed it so much that they were so convinced "the wrestling has gotten good again" that they asked if we could get tickets to the next UK tour! My best mate who is as lapsed a casual as you could imagine, enjoyed it so much that at our next car boot sale he picked up a bootleg DVD of the recording so he could watch it again. This is a guy who hasn't spent money on wrestling (other than presents for me) since the 1990s. This should tell you something about the quality of this show.

 

I could do 15 minutes on why I have no problem with them ending the Streak but I'll keep it brief - the decision is RIGHT from a business sense to break the Streak to be able to use it to pop a huge SummerSlam buyrate, Brock Lesnar was the RIGHT guy to give that extra value to, in order to make him an even BIGGER unstoppable monster for the eventual choice of "next top guy" to overcome and thus be established as a true force. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm not prepared to get into the "yay or nay" of Roman Reigns as the eventual beneficiary of what they've done with Lesnar but ON THE NIGHT what the did with Brock and Taker made PERFECT SENSE. Using "The Streak" to add to your Mania buyrate only lasts so long and if you think it should have stayed intact forever, you're basing that on sentiment, and that's not pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is about getting the consumer to part with their cash, so WWE made the right call in FINALLY using the value they'd created, towards the hopeful creation of their next drawing card. From an artistic point of view the match had its issues but you still couldn't help but watch with fascination as to how they were going to work it out, and anything I could say about the actual finish would be repeating what others have already said often and more eloquently.

 

The rest of the show is tremendous. The Daniel Bryan bookends to the show are both very exciting matches, and like all the best Manias it feels like a real "end of chapter" moment when Danny Bry finally sits top of the pile. John Cena vs Bray Wyatt was a compelling watch which exceeded the expectations of everyone I watched it with, and the battle royal caused genuine excitement that we had just potentially seen a breakout superstar created. That they went nowhere with Cesaro and neglected to go full face turn is depressing, but should not detract from that match being a part of a great card. Simple truth - I'll watch WrestleMania XXX from start to finish until the day I'm done with wrestling. It's that good.

 

WrestleMania 28

If I'm honest, maybe I don't rate this show as highly as I should. There's probably less wrong with it than I imagine, it's just that I don't see myself re-watching it that often. In truth I might still be bitter over the coupon-buster which was Kane beating Randy Orton ; that one still confuses me. The Rock vs Cena match was enjoyable and gave me the result I wanted to see on the night, but I don't catch myself wanting to watch it again in comparison to some of Cena's other best matches. While the Undertaker/Triple H Hell In A Cell match was well-executed from an objective viewpoint, personally I at no point bought into Hunter having a chance of winning, unlike during the previous year's match. Furthermore I felt like Shawn Michaels as referee actually distracted from the story between the two men fighting rather than added to the drama and in simplest terms I wouldn't choose to watch this match again when I could watch the superior one from Mania 27 instead. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho is, for me, the best match on the show, though once again, I might not bother to watch it when I could put the Extreme Rules DVD on instead and watch, overall, a much better Pay Per View.

 

WrestleMania 20

I'm surprised that more people don't rate this show highly ; the main event is an outstanding match (this is coming from a guy who HATES triple threat matches as a general rule) and the rest mostly ranges from acceptable to very good. Eddie G vs Kurt Angle for the WWE title is a truly great match and giving Eddie the win over a guy as established as Angle really established him as a genuine main event player as much or perhaps more than his Goldberg-assisted victory over Lesnar the month before, and it's just a shame his next (and final) title feud was against an overpushed jobber. Overlooked underneath is, for me, a rewarding match between Chris Jericho and Christian where they gave us the surprising upset win for the man who needed it more and an interesting storyline development with Trish turning Sexy Heel. Once you get past the extended test of strength, there is actually a well thought out match between Brock Lesnar and Goldberg, however the fan reaction to both and the facial expressions of the wrestlers betraying their feelings of "Well, fuck you too then" create an atmosphere where neither man has reason or motivation to really commit, so the match is sluggish and underwhelming. It's an eerie prelude to the "spoiled tosser" era, fan-wise, which we currently occupy. But on the whole, there is enough good action on the show to warrant a top 10 place for me.

 

WrestleMania 23

I'll be honest ; the thing I best remember about this show is not watching it for ages. I'd barely watched any WWE since the previous summer due to lack of access, waning interest, and a relationship which took up most of my recreational time. Please don't think less of me for choosing a shag over watching Raw most nights. When I did get a disc of Mania, I didn't bother watching Lashley vs Umaga as I didn't care for Lashley and the Vince/Trump storyline held zero interest for me and to be honest to this day, I still haven't watched it. Money In The Bank, though an exciting contest, at the time felt like a massive slap in the face to, and waste of, Edge and Randy Orton who had been the companys best two heels in the previous twelve months. I thought it was senseless having two guys of their calibre in a multi-man gimmick match which by its nature seemed better suited to promote a midcarder. Having said that, the match between Undertaker and Big Dave is a very good one although even in the build up it suffered for me like a lot of Taker matches at Manias that I had zero suspension of disbelief that he might lose. The main event of John Cena vs Shawn Michaels is an utterly fantastic match and I think its fabulous that Shawn had that chance, even though not the original plan, since he had been one of the companys two best wrestlers (with Kurt Angle) for a good few years. I understood Cena winning but would have loved Shawn to win so the match gave me all the right ingredients - two very good performers, no obvious winner, and an emotional investment (i.e. I cared about who would win). There's a case for Shawn/Cena as the best WrestleMania main event ever in my eyes so on the strength of two really good title matches it deserves to be right up there.

 

WrestleMania 21

This is a tale of two halves for me, the matches that shaped the companys direction and future, and the matches that delivered in the ring. Even though the results were predictable, the decisions to position Big Dave and John Cena as the top guys on their respective shows were timely and sensible given that the company had really struggled to establish consistently-pushed babyface main eventers since Steve Austin and The Rock had left the full-time roster. That Batista's ascension came after, for me, a pretty dull match which involved him having to wrestle a "Triple H match" instead of wrestling HIS match was a shame, but not a shock. That the reaction to Cena winning the big one after twelve months unnecessarily fucking about with the United States title was lukewarm might be attributable to the fact that JBL was a terrible WWE Champion, and I could give you 15 minutes on why he was an overpushed midcarder who managed to maintain a title reign without beating fucking anyone properly, but that's by-the-by.

 

The real value to Mania 21 is two other matches. Your description of the sensational Michaels vs Angle, one of my favourite matches in company history, is pretty much on the mark. At the time I was writing an essay about the joy of pro wrestling storytelling and not only was this one of five matches I elected to dissect, I believe it may have been the match that prompted me to start the project. It's that good. After 13 years as a wrestling fan I'd become used to my expectations often being bigger than what I'd receive, but that match lived up to and surpassed my expectation that it just might be one of the best matches ever. Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle were destined to have an amazing match, and this was that match. As good as both these guys were in 2004-2005 I found it utter nonsense that neither was given a world title reign to validate their status as THE BEST that WWE had until Kurt had his short, confusing tweener reign when Batista got injured. Anyway, this match is good enough to nudge any Mania nearer the top.

 

Thankfully Michaels/Angle has company, in the form of the Undertaker/Orton match. This might be context for me ; this is first Mania where I personally started placing any value on "The Streak" as opposed to just hearing the commentators mention "The Undertaker has never lost at WrestleMania" in passing. In a newly heel-turned "Legend Killer" who was in near of career rehabilitation I thought they had the ideal guy to receive this rub - at a time where the brand extension was still reasonably protected, this was a fresh one on one match like Michaels/Angle and in Randy I thought they had a guy in the unique position of being established enough and good enough to be convincing enough to beat the Undertaker, but not SO established that he didnt NEED the win (much as I hate that expression) - there was still benefit for Orton winning. I strongly believe that had Randy not needed time off with his shoulder injury, they would have booked him to win this match to make him look MASSIVELY strong for a summer program against Batista for the Big Gold Belt, but ultimately it wouldn't have made sense for him to win big at Mania and then piss of for a couple of months after getting the surgery. On the night, I didn't know Randy needed the surgery, and when he got off the RKO everyone in the room thought he was about to win. For me and my friends this was a really exciting match. For Mania 21 overall you've got a good combination of historical significance and two stunning matches which probably make it top 5 material for me.

 

WrestleMania XIX

While I consider XVII the BEST of all time there was a time I considered Mania XIX my FAVOURITE of all time. Ignore the fact that you've got some world class talent wasted in pre-show or short midcard matches and you've still got a stunning card. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho is a belter, Hulk Hogan vs Vince McMahon is more fun than I expected by a country mile, and the third Rock/Austin match is actually my favourite of their three matches at Manias down to the timing and the storyline. It feels like every bit the opportunity taken that WrestleMania XVIII represented opportunities missed ; they had Rock and Austin both back in the camp, had a brief window to put them back in the ring together on PPV and so DID IT on the biggest stage of all, where that match BELONGS. I love that in Austin's last match he finally lost to Rocky at a Mania and that he did so clean as you like. It's good business too, giving Rocky a huge win as down the road they were relying on him to do a high-profile job to make Goldberg look the big deal. As well, I adored the promo where Rock refers to himself as "Jabroni-beating, pie-eating, trailblazing, eyebrow-raising, not afraid to sweat, not afraid to bleed, gonna beat that bald-headed bastard, guaran-damn-teed!!!" On top, Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar is an insanely good match given the injury Kurt was carrying, and if it wasn't for a knackered crowd and a fucked up finish, we'd be talking about it as one of the best matches of all time. With four huge matches between talent with name value which all delivered artistically, I don't see an argument against this being one of the best.

 

WrestleMania XIV

Funnily enough even though this is one of the Manias that at the time I had looked forward to most and at the time enjoyed watching more than many previous, I can't say I've watched it back all that often. It's very much of its time, on top of the obvious historical significance, but that doesn't mean it's not a great show. Most of the top matches are enjoyable even though nothing stands out as outstanding. It's a fun show to watch as a tour of what the WWF in 1998 was all about while you wait for the inevitability of Steve Austin being crowned king. You get to see a big impact from the guys (and girl) that are going to shape where the company is going, make the crossover success stories, and sell the merchandise. Steve Austin, The Rock, the Outlaws and Sable all get to shine, and as long as you don't have the difficulty that I do watching Shawn Michaels wrestle a punishing main event in obvious, visible, genuine agony, then you can get a kick out of watching it. I think I've just stumbled upon why I never choose to, mind.

 

WrestleMania X

Is this a two-match show? Maybe. But I don't care, because those two matches were utter dynamite, and one of them still holds up today. As you've pointed out, the ladder match has perhaps not aged well because anyone that grew up in either the "TLC era" or got into wrestling while Money In The Bank has been a regular gimmick might not be able to grasp that Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels was truly jaw-dropping for spectacle or innovation. Having seen the first ladder match Shawn had with the Hitman on a Coliseum release, I thought I knew what to expect from the pay per view version but I was beyond wrong. For anyone who thinks it was a one man display (and that includes Ric Flair, who's a senile old ballbag) it needs to be pointed out that Razor takes a nuclear fuckton of abuse in the match, sailing over the top rope, smashing himself into the ladder and playing crash mat for the "Boy Toy's" best stunts. This match reaffirmed my belief that Shawn Michaels was a genuine player when a lot of my mates had him down as a midcard annoyance and nothing more, and Razor looked hard as nails in winning such a brutal match - arguably in a position where he should have been considered for WWF title contention.

 

The opening match between the brothers Hart is just fabulous. For 1994 it's as state-of-the-art as you could expect to see on an American pay per view. I may be biased as a massive Bret Hart fan, and I'm not prepared to get into a "six-moves-of-doom" debate, but the storytelling, slow build and false finishes in this match are all great, and I think this is every bit as good as the Bulldog match from SummerSlam 92, except its not as celebrated as its not the main event and isnt taking place in front of an insanely hot crowd. Bret loses nothing in defeat but Owen comes out having shown the worldwide audience what he could really do in a singles environment and with a clean pin over the bloke that by the end of the night would be WWF champion. A cracking match with the right guy going over to spin off future business from - what more could you ask for? Slight criticism - Vince comes across a bit of a retard on commentary at times during the show, but whatever. Two cracking matches and the pleasing storyline development of the best wrestler in the company actually getting to win the belt - imagine that? - make this a hugely enjoyable show overall.... as long as you can put up with Yokozuna's interminable nerve hold.

 

WrestleMania 3

As one rated so highly, I'm going to keep this quite brief. It's the "deluxe" edition of Mania 21, which had two amazing matches but probably neither AS amazing for the time as Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat, and which had two historically significant title matches, but neither REMOTELY as significant as Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant. The setting is amazing, the heat is off the scale. At a time when the occasional big match on Superstars or a semi-regular Saturday Nights Main Event was all you got, this card is HUGE. These days a six-man the likes of Tito and the Bulldogs against the Harts and Danny Davis would be dismissed as "throwaway" or "filler" but the storylines that supported that match made it gigantic. The prospect of Roddy Piper's last match (as ridiculous as that sounds now) made his match with Adorable Adrian seem a huge deal, and throughout the card you've got matches you simply wouldn't see on any other televised show in 1987. It shouldn't be marked down for the fact it's "for the time" because Savage/Steamboat is THAT good and because for sheer promotion, Hulk Hogan VS Andre The Giant re-defined "main event" forever.

 

WrestleMania XVII

Everyone else will have already said what needs to be said, far better than I can. The top end of the show is beyond comparison. It's the best roster the company ever had at their artistic and commercial peak, delivering the best card they were capable of. Everyone at the top end is wrestling who they should be in matches with intrigue and/or anticipation - it's everything WrestleMania 16 SHOULD have been but wasn't. On top, you've got the two biggest babyface stars of the hottest period in company history, facing off for the big belt in a massive stadium, where we the fans would finally have the question answered of "who is THE man" by virtue of the outcome. I have no doubts that this will be the best WrestleMania I will EVER see, and in terms of build, promotion, the stars aligning or whatever else you want to call it, there will never be a main event with the level of anticipation or electricity on the night of The Rock vs Steve Austin at WrestleMania XVII. This is the best one ever and in my heart, it's not close.

[Liam O'Rourke]

Absolutely love all the responses here, and am happy to say I was able to read the majority of them on the show, which is now up to listen to at the following link:

 

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/er62xj/SCGRadio33-RankingtheWrestleManias-TheTop10.mp3

This ended up being a really fun podcast, breaking down the different elements of all the shows in the Top 10, commenting on your thoughts, and strongly debating the order of the list itself, a great final part to the series. Check it out and, as always, let me know what you think!

[air_raid]

I really understand Chase's argument about associating Mania 17 with "the beginning of the decline" and thus understand why he cant rank it number one... even though I don't share in it. It's the dynamite "everything is awesome" show down to the power of the roster and everyone being in there with guys that are right for them to produce their best (maybe even you could call it the show Mania 16 should have been) and rather than think of it as "where it all started to go wrong" it's so good, it's like the exclamation point of a massive period of brilliance. I kind of think of it as that last massive piss up at the end of university with your mates, and while you might look back and think "Wow, my life's been a bit of a letdown ever since" you at least still have that one night to think "Yeah... that was awesome." WrestleMania 17 was the ultimate celebration of the Attitude Era. You'll never get five matches that different and that good at the top of a card ever again.

 

Final feedback, on these three Mania podcasts I've really enjoyed them even but in general the best bit of feedback I could give is that I only started listening to see what kind of conversation came out of the contributions from the UKFFers because usually I find listening to wrestling fans talk about wrestling rather difficult, but I don't mind listening to you four at all. None of your panel have once said anything that's made me think "you're an idiot" which is rare, and better yet, while obviously knowing plenty about "how it all works" none of you come across as too much like smarks. I even forgive Carl for his real names fetish.

[King Pitcos]

30 should be far higher, and 24 should not only be on the list, but near the top.

[Liam O'Rourke]

I really understand Chase's argument about associating Mania 17 with "the beginning of the decline" and thus understand why he cant rank it number one... even though I don't share in it. It's the dynamite "everything is awesome" show down to the power of the roster and everyone being in there with guys that are right for them to produce their best (maybe even you could call it the show Mania 16 should have been) and rather than think of it as "where it all started to go wrong" it's so good, it's like the exclamation point of a massive period of brilliance. I kind of think of it as that last massive piss up at the end of university with your mates, and while you might look back and think "Wow, my life's been a bit of a letdown ever since" you at least still have that one night to think "Yeah... that was awesome." WrestleMania 17 was the ultimate celebration of the Attitude Era. You'll never get five matches that different and that good at the top of a card ever again.

 

Final feedback, on these three Mania podcasts I've really enjoyed them even but in general the best bit of feedback I could give is that I only started listening to see what kind of conversation came out of the contributions from the UKFFers because usually I find listening to wrestling fans talk about wrestling rather difficult, but I don't mind listening to you four at all. None of your panel have once said anything that's made me think "you're an idiot" which is rare, and better yet, while obviously knowing plenty about "how it all works" none of you come across as too much like smarks. I even forgive Carl for his real names fetish.

Agreed, there is a strong point to be made, but it doesn't change my opinion, the good points are just too good to be denied.

 

And the positive words and weekly feedback for the show are really appreciated - with the litany of stuff to listen to nowadays, I'd hate to do one that causes ears to bleed, especially on a topic where the debating could easily get obnoxious since its something people are so passionate about.