The Attitude Era

[Wendell Cooley]

One thing about the Attitude Era, it wasn't so much inspired by ECW, but by Bischoff hotshotting on Nitro. If it wasn't for that dickhead giving away stuff that previously people paid for then Vince wouldn't have been forced to push the boat out and maybe Nancy and Daniel would still be alive today and wrestling wouldn't be RUINED.

[WWFChilli]

One thing about the Attitude Era, it wasn't so much inspired by ECW, but by Bischoff hotshotting on Nitro. If it wasn't for that dickhead giving away stuff that previously people paid for then Vince wouldn't have been forced to push the boat out and maybe Nancy and Daniel would still be alive today and wrestling wouldn't be RUINED.

 

What?

[Wendell Cooley]

Well, people say ECW was the inspiration for the Attitude era. It wasn't - it was Bischoff.

[WWFChilli]

Well, people say ECW was the inspiration for the Attitude era. It wasn't - it was Bischoff.

 

I got that and I agree with some of it, not too sure how Vince pushing the boat out caused the Benoit tragedy like.

[Wendell Cooley]

I was just mucking around.

[WWFChilli]

Ahhh, see I think it was a combination of both. There was some obvious inspiration from ECW in some aspects in regards to characters and the content of some of the story lines to some degree. The Nitro influence was probably more Vince deciding to throw bigger matches on television, as well as production.

[Wendell Cooley]

My serious point is that ECW, much as I loved it, had very little to do with shaping wresting history. Their legacy is really just making it acceptable to be a smart mark. They made it cool not to care about kayfabe. The violence had all been done before in Memphis and Japan.

 

The modern era of wrestling was everything to do with Eric Bischoff and nothing to do with Heyman. Bischoff was the one who forced Vince to up his game, not Heyman.

[WWFChilli]

My serious point is that ECW, much as I loved it, had very little to do with shaping wresting history. Their legacy is really just making it acceptable to be a smart mark. They made it cool not to care about kayfabe. The violence had all been done before in Memphis and Japan.

 

The modern era of wrestling was everything to do with Eric Bischoff and nothing to do with Heyman. Bischoff was the one who forced Vince to up his game, not Heyman.

 

Exactly, it was Bischoff, though I think ECW being around at that time and it's counter culture product gave WWF some ideas in how to present their content. The dark industrial looking sets, a lot more smut on show and a push to what you could say were more realistic gimmicks/characters.

[Wendell Cooley]

Although, having just said that, the more believable style of promo can be credited to ECW. Shane Douglas is a joke these days but he did start a new trend when he threw that belt down. It was very exciting at the time.

 

And Edge and Christian obviously watched Stevie and The Meanie.

[Maverick]

ECW might have had more character style influence in the people being more real that we'd go on to see with the likes of Austin, Foley etc than of the product in general. The violence is all stuff Paul E had seen before but I think in terms of the way characters were presented around that time they made a mark.

[WWFChilli]

ECW might have had more character style influence in the people being more real that we'd go on to see with the likes of Austin, Foley etc than of the product in general. The violence is all stuff Paul E had seen before but I think in terms of the way characters were presented around that time they made a mark.

 

Pretty much this, WWF never got more violent on regular basis but the angle had an added layer of intensity you could say.

[Wendell Cooley]

The promos were ECW's true legacy, rather than the violence. It was a TV show truly driven by the characters rather than their athletic feats. What's the one line that sticks in the mind of any ECW fan? It's Tommy Dreamer yelling "I'll take 'em both, I'm hardcore!" Not the same man being thrown off the balcony, although it was a great moment itself. The ECW promo style was what helped make The WWF popular again, in conjunction with Nitro forcing Vince to put PPV matches on free TV.

[Devon Malcolm]

Something I've realised is that the story of ECW - how it came into being, its evolution, its rise and its downfall - is FAR more interesting than anything that actually happened in the promotion itself. If I did a top 50 matches, I don't think a single ECW match would be in it.

 

In fact, it says something that my favourite ECW moments ever were Brian Pillman threatening to piss all over the hellhole and Al Snow's entrance that time where all the crowd had styrofoam Heads.

[Wendell Cooley]

That's just personal taste, though, Devon. There were plenty of great matches in the bingo hall. So what if they don't make it to a top 50 list? How could one even really compile such a list unless you're an autistic weirdo like Dave Meltzer who audits such things?

 

You do raise an interesting point, though, but I suspect you could apply it to any promotion, not just ECW.

[Tommy!]

I not long back watched 98 Raw through, or nearly because I was missing a show and never picked it up, and while the main event stuff starts amazing once we get the run over the summer, the Taker, Kane, Austin saga, I didn't thing it had aged well I don't think. The PPV's are great to watch but the story progression on Raw just felt like random shit going off with no pay off. At the time I bet it was amazing next to what had been going on in the early part of the 90's but it doesn't stand the test of time well. Perhaps I'm alone in not liking this.

 

DX were painful to watch in skits and what not over all once they went face too, some how The Outlaws looked the best of the bunch retrospectively. There's a few bits out on the streets of New York where HHH puts on an Asian accent and asks a man if pulling his turban will start his engine.

 

The Brawl for All was great too, which was a shock. The one show after Bart won where he goes full on spastic on commentary that he's not getting a push after winning before punching every one in sight made him seem like a real mental motherfucker.

 

There was some great stuff going on down the card too with Val, JJ, Pac, The Nation (but Rock and D-Lo mainly). The turning of Foley a few times through the year is class too. The crowd were red hot for nearly everything, but the attitude era fad of signs isn't too missed I must say.

 

Then all of a sudden you seem to get them go ape shit with attempted embalming and 6 months of story chocked into 2 episodes of Raw. It's break neck and amazing but it burns me out quick and makes it hard to keep things having an impact.

 

I also loved the start of 98 because it had Funk there

 

I got into wrestling in 99 watching WCW after we got sky but I got hooked in early 2000. I remember catching a WWF round up show and they were building HHH Vs Foley and I was in awe. The only other thing I recall from this time is how much I longed to see the 3 way ladder match at mania. The characters at every level seemed so great, top to bottom. Godfather to Rock, Too Cool to HHH, even Taka and Funaki to Taker. Every one had a catch, and every one had a part to play. I recall may a heated talk with a friend over who was coolest, I said Dudley's he said Hardy's. Crispin Wah seemed like a right ruthless fucker in 2000 too, I really bought into him more than I ever would again.

 

Some of that 2000 love is going to be the rose tinted specs of nostalgia for the time I first really found wrestling, but then the PPV's from 97 to 2001 all hold up very well over all with only a few minor faults here and there, and Survivor Series 98 is easily the best example of how to do show long story. How the 2000 set of Raw would hold up I don't know, but from what I know and remember it did all seem to slow down a bit after most of 99 seemed to fly by and it benefited from Austin's absence to let the over all card grow.

 

I still love ECW, for the characters possible more than anything else, and in truth it's ended up a mixed bag. Some matches still hold up great and are a joy to watch while some look rough as hell. The plodding brawls were very much of there time, I remember a tag with the headhunters and the Harris brothers that seemed to never end the first time I watched it back when any and all wrestling was amazing. Some of Shane's matches are ropey as fuck too.

 

There are still some great matches out there though and I do enjoy watching through many of my ECW tapes and discs. The fans can be right twats at time's though, particularly once it's becoming their "thing".

 

It all ran it's race though, the characters and style were a product of its time and that's why it was as big as it all was, WWF and ECW. People like Austin, DX, the faces of Taker at the time and the frantic pace all fitted with the world the way the Hogan years earlier had.

Times change, as do people and what they like. That's not to say I wouldn't like some things back, the hot but not trying to get themselves over crowds of the WWF and a card chock full of real characters. But then unless I'm mistaken this time gave us the camera and crew that the wrestlers can't see filming them planning and shit, which I hate, and it had many hot shot story's or nonsensical goings on which I couldn't put up with week in and week out.

 

That's my sort of take on it any way. It's likely all bollocks but still.