Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 England game is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeg_&_The_Heads Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 And what happens when they come out of prison, with fewer prospects and more criminalised? Do we just rinse and repeat? Â I would say that is better than just letting them get away with it anyway prisons do have educational courses so when in there they can learn a trade maybe better their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 I get that you're confused but do you really think that shooting people is the answer? And seeing as there's probably more than a few guns going around London, what happens if they shoot back? No, I'm not saying the police should start shooting, what I am saying is that they need to be doing something more, more force is necessary. Last night I pointed out to someone the idea of opening fire on people in the streets was bad and pointed out the Ian Tomlinson situation from a couple of years ago (ok that was shooting, but it was act first, judge later) I was also thinking along the lines of how hypocrital it would be of us to go in guns blazing when we started bombing other countries for effectively doing similar. Â Sadly I woke up this morning to riots spreading across the country and just getting worse, leaving me with very conflicted views. I can see before the days out words such as curfew being thrown around and talk of bringing the Army in to deal with it. Â That's a touch harsh Kris. It's mindless violence to provide cover for robbing up JD Sports and Currys. You make rather a good point, in fact I could do with getting along to one of these get togethers, pick myself up that new TV I need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev2050 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 By 'what about their friends and families?' I meant, what if they continue in the same way, and more riots occur. Â I'm sure they will. They have the mindset that the worst case scenario for them is a caution, the best is a free telly. Â Change the mindset that there are no consequences, and you have a soloution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 That's not wishing for the best for everyone though is it? You've got thousands of people involved in these riots, would you just throw them all in prison? What about their friends or their families? Do you not see the need for longer-term solutions? And what happens when they come out of prison, with fewer prospects and more criminalised? Do we just rinse and repeat? I've found in this thread that some people really struggle to know the difference - I've been accused several times of making excuses. The problem is, you're looking for explanations at the same time as coming across as though you don't think they should be punished for what they've done. You continue to talk as though they are trying to make some kind of point, like this is actually some kind of protest. I would absolutely put them in prison and given the gravity of this situation I would go for the toughest sentence posible in each case. Â This has been an organised situation, am I right in thinking sometimes football violence is pre-organised? People contact each other via text, social network, etc with details of where it's all to kick off and BOOM! Everyone jumps on board? They do that for the violence, nothing else and some of these people have got jobs, they've got families, but they also happen to be grade A cunts!. Is this any different? Seems to me like the same thing but on a much larger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members seph Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) England game is off. Â As is City/Swindon. Our chance of getting through to Round 2 has gone up 500%. Edited August 9, 2011 by seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 The problem is, you're looking for explanations at the same time as coming across as though you don't think they should be punished for what they've done. You continue to talk as though they are trying to make some kind of point, like this is actually some kind of protest. I would absolutely put them in prison and given the gravity of this situation I would go for the toughest sentence posible in each case. This has been an organised situation, am I right in thinking sometimes football violence is pre-organised? People contact each other via text, social network, etc with details of where it's all to kick off and BOOM! Everyone jumps on board? They do that for the violence, nothing else and some of these people have got jobs, they've got families, but they also happen to be grade A cunts!. Is this any different? Seems to me like the same thing but on a much larger scale.  Well to me it won't make much of a difference if they are punished or not. I'd imagine a lot of them don't care either way. The threat of punishment is hardly acting as a deterrent at the moment, is it? Football violence is obviously slightly different but don't make out that the guys involved in that are normally mild-mannered family men who randomly turn violent at the weekends. They're people with violent histories, probably brought up around violence and fear. People don't act in these ways for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 International Olympic Committee meeting in London to decide if these events are significant enough to warrant moving the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DJ Kris Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Well to me it won't make much of a difference if they are punished or not. I'd imagine a lot of them don't care either way. The threat of punishment is hardly acting as a deterrent at the moment, is it? Football violence is obviously slightly different but don't make out that the guys involved in that are normally mild-mannered family men who randomly turn violent at the weekends. They're people with violent histories, probably brought up around violence and fear. People don't act in these ways for no reason. I wasn't making out they were mild mannered family men, I think the world I used was grade A cunts. What I was saying is that many of them also have jobs and family's and as such the violence is for the sake of it and because they enjoy it, not because they have nothing better to do. Â Likewise I don't believe the street are being ripped apart by the counties unemployed, sure a lot of them probably don't have jobs, but I'll bet a lot of them do and I'll also bet the vast majority are only there and doing this for the buzz. Nothing more. Â International Olympic Committee meeting in London to decide if these events are significant enough to warrant moving the Olympics. That won't happen and I'll be suprised if they're even having the meeting. Probably just rumours. Edited August 9, 2011 by DJ Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 The threat of punishment is hardly acting as a deterrent at the moment, is it? I completely agree with you however you can't just give into people who go about things in this way without punishment. Otherwise, people will be rioting all over the place for any reason. If there's no repercussion, then they truly have nothing to lose. Â It seems the government believe that they simply don't think there will be consequence and are hoping for the fact that people will be punished to act as a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I completely agree with you however you can't just give into people who go about things in this way without punishment. Otherwise, people will be rioting all over the place for any reason. If there's no repercussion, then they truly have nothing to lose. Â It seems the government believe that they simply don't think there will be consequence and are hoping for the fact that people will be punished to act as a deterrent. Â I understand that. But more important than that is respect for your neighbours and community - that is what these kids don't have. Threatening them with prison or other punishment isn't going to produce that. Plus they've been brought up on a diet of consumerism where it's about what you have, not who you are or what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 That was Dermot Murnaghan on Sky News, by the way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted August 9, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) I understand that. But more important than that is respect for your neighbours and community - that is what these kids don't have. Threatening them with prison or other punishment isn't going to produce that. What is then? Education hasn't, their parents haven't. Where else are you going to get the chance to reform them? Â People meet up to clean up. Good on them. Pity it's come to this for good people: http://yfrog.com/h7mncqbj Edited August 9, 2011 by tiger_rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 This is the telegraph story; and, it's a bit less spectacular than the sky news announcement. Though apparently the head of the Australian Olympic Committe has voiced concerns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobberinho Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 The army will be on the streets of London tonight. It is as yet unconfirmed if they'll be supplied by putting a cinder block through Millets window first or Blacks Outdoor Equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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