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[wandshogun09]

I think Rampage by KO.

 

And that doesn't feel right typing that. Rampage is so clearly far past his best. And on paper Mo has advantages. He's younger, he's quicker, he has awesome wrestling when he uses it. But I don't know. I just get the feeling Mo is pretty much done already. Ever since the horrible run of injuries and staph infection (which nearly killed him), he's not looked the same to me. Something isn't right with him. I think he'll go down as one of the biggest underachievers and 'what ifs?' in the sport when all's said and done. For a guy with his skills, his look, with his ability to talk and the confidence he had, he had all the ingredients on paper to be a big star. But bad luck and some bad choices and he's looking almost done to me these days. He's not completely shot like Leben or Scott Smith, but I honestly don't think he's far behind. It's a shame. The two losses to Newton heightened that feeling. But even his last fight, he didn't look too good even in victory to me. In truth he was never a world beater, Feijao took him out back when he was injury free and full of confidence. But I still get the feeling he should have done better than he has since then.

 

It sounds odd picking Rampage on the basis the other guy is shopworn, considering Rampage's decline. And maybe this is the sort of fight that Mo needs to light a fire under him and bring the best out of him. But I've just got this feeling Rampage puts him away within two rounds. For all his weaknesses, Rampage still has power. And Mo doesn't have the strongest chin. In a standup fight, Mo has the speed but I don't like his chances of avoiding the big shots. And I'm not sure Mo can wrestle anywhere near as effectively as he used to, after all the issues he's had.

 

Rampage by KO, round 2 for me. But I'll be hoping Mo can prove me wrong and somehow claw back a bit of a career resurgence still. I can't see it but I hope he can.

Edited May 14, 2014 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

hmmm, the jury's still out on Mo for me. His Bellator run has been a little deceptive, there's been some high points (3 brutal KO's, especially the Petruzelli one), but people seem to forget them because of the lows, the losses to Newton...however i think that may be a little discredit to Emmanuel Newton's, who's shown he's one of the most underrated and unconventional fighters at 205, i don't think anyone would look forward to fighting Newton these days.

 

Mo's got all the tools and when he puts them together he can be devastating, against a very conventional style fighter like Rampage i imagine he could look good, the big equaliser here though is Rampage' power.

 

2-3 years ago this was one of the biggest potential fights in the sport, now it seems like a bit of an afterthought, i don't think anyone really buys into the feud either which seems to have been re-ignited in the press to sell the fight, i think it's pretty apparent that the two guys actually get on though away from the camera.

 

Really excited for the return of Michael Page too guy's been away too long.

[jimufctna24]

i think it's pretty apparent that the two guys actually get on though away from the camera.

According to Front Row Brian, Mo really dislikes Rampage. Their brief cordial relationship a few years back was meant to be down to sponsorship. I other words, all for the cameras.

 

I love Mo, but he has been a flop since 2010. Yes, he has had the odd strong performance (Larkin, Gracie, Seth), but he has not evolved into the fighter or star I felt he could have been.

 

I actually agree with Wand that injuries have played a role, but there is more to it than that. Firstly, he is far too small to be applying his trade at 205lbs. Secondly, he has always tried to be too fancy with his striking. He was talking about studying Bernard Hopkins going into the Fejao fight, and his Maywhether inspired approach to the first Newton fight failed miserably.

 

I agree with EBB that he has all the tools, but the question now is, can he apply them?. As a star, he is not respected by his own fanbase, let alone MMA fans in general. I read last summer Bellator ran a poll to find the fans favorite fighter (or something along those lines), Mo was last behind the likes of Pitbull, Chandler and others.

 

Rampage is a bit dire, but he still has a certain amount of power. Mo's wrestling should give Rampage fits on paper, as it stands with injuries I am not convinced that Mo can take Page down consistently. Mo can try and be fancy with his striking, but it only takes one favorable exchange for Page to finish the job.

 

I am 50/50. On pure skill, Mo should win, but on recent form Page might land that big shot.

[Egg Shen]

hmmmm, so the feud everybody thinks is fabricated is actually legit and the friendship everyone believes is real is bullshit? haha.

 

Bellator have put out a promo piece for the show but i can't find it online at the moment though.

[jimufctna24]

I have question

 

Is it just me or is there a lack of buzz going into this event. Whatever is said, it did seem that when Ortiz vs Page was announced their was a certain amount of buzz (even if it was negative)

 

Is it just that I have not being visiting MMA media sources as much lately?

[Egg Shen]

it's probably your lack of visiting the sources man i've been slacking myself recently, i check MMAjunkie a few times a die and browse Bloodyelbow but ive cut back a little on my MMA media, but there's a buzz being generated, goto any MMA site this week and it's pretty much all Bellator.

 

I sometimes think that myself, people will say 'i aint feeling much of a buzz' about a specific event, but hype is what you make it really. There's always a ton of press out there, it's just a case of going to look for it. I mean if you only read the UKFF for pre-fight buzz you're going to be pretty disappointed haha. I do mean to get back on it like i used too though, the more you look the more excited i always get for a show.

 

I'll try posting some shit on here before Saturday if you can't be arsed to look.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ebb

[jimufctna24]

Cheers man

 

I will be watching this one. The Main Card is sick, even with Alverez pulling out.

[Egg Shen]

yeh it's pretty stacked top-to-bottom, if you ain't very familiar with Bellator's fighters it's a great time to check out the prelims. Marcin Held, Mike Richman, Shahbulat Shamhalaev...all exciting fighters, oh and you get some Cheick Kongo chucked in on top

[wandshogun09]

people will say 'i aint feeling much of a buzz' about a specific event, but hype is what you make it really.

 

I know what you mean but I truly believe it's more up to the promoters to generate hype or buzz or whatever. That's a promoter's job. If I'm having to try to pump myself up about a show then it means one or two things. Either a) the card isn't that great, or even flat-out sucks or b) the promoter hasn't done that good a job. If a card is really great or there's a fight that grabs you, you'll already being devouring everything online going in so it makes the promoter's job easier, but they've still got to maximise that by throwing out as much promotion as they can. If a card is good but not the type that will automatically get people excited, then you've got to try to give them a reason to start getting excited.

 

Bellator have done a good job on this. Well they've tried anyway but the bad luck of losing their main event cocked it up. Spike were going to town with four different hype shows. Two of which are now useless because Alvarez vs Chandler is off. There's the usual stuff on the sites as well.

 

It's a really good looking show and I'm looking forward to it. I'd say on paper it's probably still the most stacked show they've ever done. But I'm not feeling some big buzz either to be honest. You won't get that with every show anyway. I don't get it with every UFC show. And the more shows they put on the more numb or desensitised you become until it takes something massive like 168 or 175 to really get the blood in your hood.

 

There's always a ton of press out there, it's just a case of going to look for it. I mean if you only read the UKFF for pre-fight buzz you're going to be pretty disappointed haha.

 

Every single day I'm on MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, BloodyElbow, MMAMania, here and browsing twitter. But there's still not that feeling of a really special show for this to me. There's only so much you can do as a fan. Just reading articles won't make you massively giddy for a card.

 

It's really a shame these countdown show things weren't distributed more widely. They should be blasting these in fans faces relentlessly. Remember the week of UFC 100? Now obviously this is nothing on that scale, but the UFC were throatfucking us all with endless shit as I recall. The Countdown was one of their best ever, there were endless interviews, they did that 100 Greatest Fights thing that week, they even stuck the show on free-to-air over here to make sure we watched when the Setanta deal went tits up. Bellator don't have the reach or the pull UFC does, or the roster UFC does, or a Brock Lesnar, so fair enough. But that's the approach if you want to generate excitement, surely. Just bombard us with your shit until we're either sick of it or we are brainwashed into believing it's going to be the Bellator version of Zaire '74. They are airing this hype stuff on Spike so hopefully it'll do well and add more buys. As for us, we've got to wait for it to pop up on torrents sites or YouTube. Why can't Bellator just stick all this stuff up on YouTube and get the MMA sites linking to it, and get Helwani and whoever tweeting links and stuff.

 

I'm a lazy cunt. I shouldn't have to dig for this stuff. I shouldn't have to chase it down. They should be plastering it all over the place so I can't escape it.

 

So yeah, it's a very good card. Even with all the obstacles. Alvarez vs Chandler falling apart was obviously the big one, but also Pitbull dropped off the card as well. For me that's a big hit because he's one of my favourite fighters in the company. Losing Alvarez and him is just brutal. They've done a good job holding it together enough to keep a very strong card. I hope it's a success. If they do a semi decent number now given all the setbacks, then thats encouraging. I think the fights will deliver one way or the other and we aren't having to pay so it's all good with me.

[Egg Shen]

it's always hard to gauage how well something is being promoted when we're living in a different country, i mean we have no idea what kind of advertising goes on on the TV over there...there may be full page ads in the papers? maybe it's all over Spike! who knows.

 

My point with hype was though that if you don't goto the right places you aint really gonna see any of it. I mean just browsing the UKFF MMA thread will only do so much, but there's tons of youtube channels going mental over this show, it's just a case of finding the right sources...i understand that having it shoved in your face is a great way for the hype to grow, but MMA isn't really the kind of sport that does that unless you're looking in the right places to begin with.

 

As for the countdown shows, that's just bad luck like i said a Mo/Rampage hype show has aired in America, i just cant find the fucking thing haha.

[wandshogun09]

Luke Thomas tweeted that he's got a bunch of video interviews done with Bjorn Rebney, Rampage, King Mo, Chandler, Brooks, Tito and Shlemenko at the fighter workouts today. So keep an eye out for them. I'm assuming they'll be up on MMAFighting.com tonight or tomorrow.

[Egg Shen]

Tito's posted a picture of him starting his weight cut and he looks in great shape, it's gonna happen!

 

Thoughts on Ortiz these days?

 

For me, this truly is the last chance for him to prove he has anything. I've never really understood why Tito's mixed in such great company the last few years, i'd have had no problem with him just dropping down and level and fighting lower ranked guys but he's constantly mixed it with top guys and for that reason his record may be a little deceptively bad, but that's no excusing the fact that he's looked pretty terrible in the majority of the fights. Here i think he's tried to be clever in that he's taking on a highly ranked opponent but will massively outsize him so Tito probably think he can bully Schlemenko into a high profile win...i don't see it going that way but that's clearly Ortiz' way of thinking going in.

 

What also irked me a little in the pre-fight is Ortiz saying 'i haven't felt this way since before the Bader fight', trying to suck any ounce of glory out of the fact that that's the only fight he's won in 8 years or something, i'm pretty sure Ortiz has said he's been in amazing shape before every fight only to make no end of excuses afterwards. I know it doesn't sell to say you're in bad shape beforehand but Ortiz has been pushing the fans patience for years and it's for that reason that many are turned off by him these days, still i'm willing to give him a pass one last time.

[jimufctna24]

Tito was the guy who drew me to become an MMA fan.

 

That said he has not be relevant since 2007/2008 at the latest. The Bader win was a bit of a fluke. As a person? I like Tito, he comes across as quite genuine at times, and I thought Liddel and Dana were very bitter towards him.

 

Someone on Sherdog has a point. It was Spike who promoted Tito vs Liddel back in 2006 which was the first fight to break the 1 Million barrier. Tito also broke the ratings record when he fought Shamrock for the third time. No wonder Spike are willing to play ball with him. Jordan Breen stated he was at the Jones vs Lyoto show a few years back, and at a bar close by all the locals asked who was fighting. Despite Jones, Machida and Lil Nog all being on the card, the name that drew the most reaction from the locals was Tito. The guy is still more well known with casual fans than some the established stars of today.

 

As a fighter, he is the same as he was in 2006. Maybe a bit better at striking, but that is it. His skill set peaked in 2006 as he pushed himself to the limit for the Liddel fight, his physical peak was probably 2002, which was 12 years ago. He has no place in serious MMA competition in 2014, he is a bit like Tank Abbot was in 2004-2005 (remember when he popped up on a Pride show?)

 

Still his name and former drawing power carries him places. Ortiz is a still a bigger name than the likes of Edgar, Barao and Mighty Mouse. Even though they have already developed into being a better in their weightclass then Tito even was in his. Barao is also a better Champion than Tito ever was. Breen also made the point that Tito for his namesake, is not actually that highly rated in the all time 205lbs list. Some names that achieved more relative to their era, and have more impresses resumes at 205lbs

 

Jones

Rampage

Chuck

Shogun

Wanderlai

Hendo

Couture

 

You could argue a lot more if you want to go in terms of head-head and not just focus on achievements. But again, money and past reputation talks. Even if he bombs at the box office on Saturday, there might be other places for him to milk a payday if he so desires. It would not shock me if Randy or Frank comeback to fight him in Bellator, regardless of the result on Saturday.

[wandshogun09]

It would not shock me if Randy or Frank comeback to fight him in Bellator, regardless of the result on Saturday.

 

Oh God, I hope that never happens. Either Randy or Frank really, but I'd hate to see a Frank Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz rematch. For the simple fact it would never, ever, in a million years, come close to the first fight. It would be an embarrassment and I would hope Frank is content enough with his career to stay retired and leave that alone. It was such a tremendous fight in 1999. In 2014 and beyond, man, it would be so shit in comparison. It'd be like doing a Hart Foundation vs Rockers match now. With Anvil all coked up, Bret unable to bump and Jannetty's bent inwards ankles. Leave the memories be.

 

Tito vs Randy 2 would be crap as well. It wasn't much cop the first time, truth be told. I could see from Bellator's POV why they'd book such a fight, but they'd most likely be terrible.

 

If they're going to go that route they might as well go all the way and give Kimbo a call. He's the man you want if you're after ratings. And even now, you know people would tune in for Kimbo vs Rampage, Mo, Tito, any of them lot. It's sad but even in 2014, he'd probably bring more eyeballs to Bellator than the Alvarez vs Chandler rubber match could dream of. Even after all this time.

 

Saying all that, I'd actually not be all that against Tito vs KEN Shamrock again, I'll admit it. Tito vs Frank no, but Ken? Fuck it. I know Tito's 3-0 and two of those fights combined lasted no longer than it took you to read this post, but there's something about the Tito and Ken combo. Sad as it would be in 2014, it'd be equally as comical. Not in Bellator though. I'd like to think they're above that. Stick them on the undercard of Roy Jones vs Chris Lytle or something, if that ever happens. With James Toney as guest ring announcer, like Ronnie Garvin at SummerSlam '89. Or better yet, resurrect...THE YAMMA PIT!

Edited May 16, 2014 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

why was Ronnie Garvin the guest ring announcer?