Happ Hazzard Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Do you feel that immigrants integrate less in Britain than they do in Spain or the US, or any of the many other countries that experience higher levels of immigration than the UK? Â Basically, since we overestimate it more than a number of other countries, AND are more hostile to it, why do you think this is? I don't know about Spain. People in the US definitely integrate more than they do here, because they have to. Â Spanish people are certainly more openly racist than British people. I think the pressure on British people to be outwardly accepting of other cultures has led to a buildup of resentment which is boiling over at the moment due to the economy being in the state it is. People were prepared to put up with it when just about everyone had jobs, money in their pocket etc. Â I think people are sick of being told lies such as "we have always been a nation of immigrants", "there is no such thing as indigenous Britons" or "British culture is worthless" or "the British Empire was shameful" etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm now almost convinced that Col. Gaddafi doesn't even know what day of the week it is anymore and is just being fed BS by his son(s) and other cronies who know they are almost certainly going to be strung up if/when Gaddafi falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted March 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 Do you feel that immigrants integrate less in Britain than they do in Spain or the US, or any of the many other countries that experience higher levels of immigration than the UK?  Basically, since we overestimate it more than a number of other countries, AND are more hostile to it, why do you think this is? I don't know about Spain. People in the US definitely integrate more than they do here, because they have to.  Could you back this up, please? How do they 'have' to?  Spanish people are certainly more openly racist than British people. I think the pressure on British people to be outwardly accepting of other cultures has led to a buildup of resentment which is boiling over at the moment due to the economy being in the state it is. People were prepared to put up with it when just about everyone had jobs, money in their pocket etc. I think people are sick of being told lies such as "we have always been a nation of immigrants", "there is no such thing as indigenous Britons" or "British culture is worthless" or "the British Empire was shameful" etc etc etc.  The Irish, the Jews, the Blacks, the Indians, the Chinese, the Eastern Europeans... I'd say you can go back to the 1880s at least, and there's evidence of it being a nation of immigrants. I genuinely feel the anger and distrust of Islam is similar to the anger and distrust to Blacks, Indians and all the way back to the Irish.  Who says British culture is worthless?  What do you class as 'indigenous Britons'? How far back do you have to go?  Don't you think there were shameful elements of the British Empire? I think there were some advantages to the countries that took part, but (again, looking at things from the Irish point of view, because it's an example I know very well), I can see a lot of disadvantages for anyone that was on the 'colonised' rather than 'colonising' side of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I think people are sick of being told lies such as "we have always been a nation of immigrants", "there is no such thing as indigenous Britons" or "British culture is worthless" or "the British Empire was shameful" etc etc etc. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted March 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted March 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 This was what I was talking about with this thread. Pure dismissal (in the case of some people) rather than debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Chris brought facts and figures and a reasonable question about perceptions being fuelled by a fairly racist newspaper industry. Happ brought some "PC GONE MAD" assertions. Which one is engaging in discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 People overestimating immigration is likely due multiculturalism resulting in people being born here, living here all their lives but not integrating at all into British society. A fair amount of people would regard (for example) Muslim women walking round in full-face Burqas, as being "immigrants" regardless of whether they were born here or not. Then those people would be wrong, wouldn't they? Surely the best way to remedy that kind of situation is to educate people on the matter? Or do we just tell women who choose to wear the burqa that it's simply not on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Chris brought facts and figures and a reasonable question about perceptions being fuelled by a fairly racist newspaper industry. Happ brought some "PC GONE MAD" assertions. Which one is engaging in discussion? Both of us? Â What exactly is "PC gone mad" about anything I've said? Â It sounds like you are just dismissing any opinions that differ from the left-wing hegemony as being not worthy of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 It sounds like you are just dismissing any opinions that differ from the left-wing hegemony as being not worthy of discussion. Happ, there is no "left-wing hegemony". This is simply an excuse you are using to hide behind when people dismiss some of the nonsense that you're coming out with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 There is no left wing hegemony, yet opinions can just be dismissed by saying they are "PC gone mad" or "Daily Mail shit", with no further argument necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 There is no left wing hegemony, yet opinions can just be dismissed by saying they are "PC gone mad" or "Daily Mail shit", with no further argument necessary? I wouldn't worry about it. I've had my opinions dismissed by a few people as simply "left-wing nonsense". That doesn't mean that there is some sort of right-wing norm that I'm questioning, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted March 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 Chris brought facts and figures and a reasonable question about perceptions being fuelled by a fairly racist newspaper industry. Happ brought some "PC GONE MAD" assertions. Which one is engaging in discussion? Both of us? Â What exactly is "PC gone mad" about anything I've said? Â It sounds like you are just dismissing any opinions that differ from the left-wing hegemony as being not worthy of discussion. Â I think a couple of the things that you said to me did sound rather 'PC gone mad'. I'll bold the bits that I think Kenny was referring to, and you can see if you disagree. Â Â Do you feel that immigrants integrate less in Britain than they do in Spain or the US, or any of the many other countries that experience higher levels of immigration than the UK? Â Basically, since we overestimate it more than a number of other countries, AND are more hostile to it, why do you think this is? I don't know about Spain. People in the US definitely integrate more than they do here, because they have to. (1) Â Spanish people are certainly more openly racist than British people. I think the pressure on British people to be outwardly accepting of other cultures (2) has led to a buildup of resentment which is boiling over at the moment due to the economy being in the state it is. People were prepared to put up with it when just about everyone had jobs, money in their pocket etc. Â I think people are sick of being told lies such as "we have always been a nation of immigrants", "there is no such thing as indigenous Britons" (3) or "British culture is worthless" or "the British Empire was shameful" etc etc etc. Â 1 - Again, I'll ask you to back this up. It sounds like 'PC gone mad' because of the suggestion that immigrants are free to do as they please. Â 2 - I don't think there's pressure on British people to be 'outwardly accepting of other cultures'. I feel there's pressure to be genuinely accepting of other cultures, and I think a great deal of that pressure is peer pressure, since a lot of people ARE genuinely accepting of other cultures. But this goes both ways. If people come to the UK and want to be accepted, they have to accept other cultures in response. Johann Hari wrote a great piece for the Independent recently asking Can we talk about Muslim homophobia now?. I do think this smacks of 'PC gone mad', because it seems to be saying that the pressure to accept other cultures is the reason behind the problem. Â 3 - I've already asked you questions about these, which you've not responded to yet. But they really are a bit 'PC gone mad'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 lol? Â omglmfao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 An interesting article in yesterdays Financial Times; Â Millions of ordinary families face a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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