UFC 318: Holloway vs Poirier 3 - Jul 19 ???

[Bruce85]

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:

Ideally I’d go Topuria vs Paddy, Holloway vs Oliveira 2 and maybe Tsarukyan vs Gaethje but I can’t see Gaethje going for that because he’s adamant he deserves a title shot. 

In an ideal world that’s how’d I’d also book it. I don’t hate Topuria vs Holloway 2 but it feel a bit too soon, it’s not like the first fight was close or controversial. 
 

I also had a stinker on the predictions, it was a funny night of results. Great send off for Dustin, it was a great fight and he gave a hell of a showing so all in all a pretty great way to go out. Max winning was definitely best for business. 
 

As other have mentioned, I’m also sick of seeing Trump at these events. I watch the reply’s on the TNT app on the ps5 and it has time stamps for each fight so I skim through, watch Buffer do the intros, the fight, and if it’s someone I like I’ll watch the post fight interview but most of the time I just skip ahead to try and see as little of it as possible. 

[Egg Shen]

16 hours ago, Zaheer said:

Now I genuinely can't be bothered with it.

I look at the card and there's one good/decent match if that. They used to put on banger of cards where every fight felt huge. Could it be the lack of superstar power/draws? 

What happened?!

The number 1 reason here is investment. To look at a card and say there's only one decent fight tells me that you are generally unfamiliar with the roster and not keeping up with what's going on, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Saying the UFC has declined in quality is not accurate for me though. The fights and fighters in general nowadays are of the highest standard they've ever been. Crowds are rabid and ticket sales are through the roof, for every jaded old school fan there's a couple of younger kids who are just getting the bug now and probably know most of the roster like we all used too.

That said, i'm not saying there isn't valid issues to be brought up about the state of the UFC in 2025. Fight quality isn't really one of them though.

I think a lot of people caught the MMA bug the same time that you say you did. I had friends who have zero interest in sports in general who got into it and knew all the fighters. We gathered regular for cards and got the beers in. Those same people now couldn't tell you a single Champion and would struggle to name 5 fighters on the roster. People just move on from shit. It's abit like music, most of people have a music phase then at some point completely give up on anything new and just stick to their tried and tested cd collection from when they had that phase, usually whilst stating that everything new is shit.

Edited July 22, 2025 by Egg Shen

[Egg Shen]

Back on subject, how good did Ateba Gautier look? That is one scary man at 185. Still plenty of questions to be answered, but holy shit. Would love to see him open a main card next time out.

Islam Dulatov looks the real deal as well. Another UFC fighter/Versace model combo.

 

[wandshogun09]

Can’t speak for Zaheer’s investment but I think it’s undeniable that there’s been a decline in quality to some extent. I don’t know how anyone can look at the product today and say otherwise. Yeah, at the very top level it’s still great. But nobody can convince me divisions like Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight have a better or deeper pool of talent than they did 10 or even 15 years ago. It’s simply not true. And the women’s side, which was never the strongest to begin with, has absolutely declined. You can go back to Joanna Jedrzejczyk’s title defences in 2015, a whole decade ago, and there isn’t any evolution whatsoever in what you see from the current crop of women. If anything there’s only been regression. Same with Heavyweight, same with 205, Middleweight is shite barring a handful of top guys.

There’s amazing fighters at the top of the sport. But the difference we’ve seen over the past decade is they’ve let more and more shite onto the roster. They’ve 100% watered down the quality by putting what are basically regional level fights, and in some cases downright amateur level fights, on their cards because they have to fill a TV rights schedule. Then you add in the Apex, that alone harms the quality of their product. Then all the Trump worship. And even little things like Dana and Rogan clearly not giving a shit anymore. It just creates an overall feeling of everything and everyone going through the motions and that feeling trickles down into the fanbase. There’s also a lack of the truly big fight feel these days. And that’s not me falling out of love with MMA. There just isn’t the same buzz there used to be around the big fights for whatever reason. Whether it’s the lack of stars, them spamming too many immediate rematches and trilogies so rivalries don’t get chance to marinate, or too many shows week after week meaning they don’t have as much focus on building the big ones and everyone moves on so quick after because there’s another show next week. It’s not any one thing but a combination. 

People can say it’s cyclical and there’ll be boom periods again, I’m sure there will be. But the problem now is I don’t think the UFC, Dana etc even care to put the effort in anymore. They don’t create stars and even when one falls in their lap like Topuria, they don’t make the most of it. They seem to have zero intention of going to Spain or Georgia despite Dana paying lip service to wanting to. Just like they never went to Hawaii when Max was the man at 145. Just like they never went anywhere in Africa when they had three African champs at the same time in Ngannou, Adesanya and Usman. It’s same old same old. Whenever a journalist (LOL such as they even exist anymore) asks him about plans to go to a certain country or city, his stock answer is always “I wanna go everywhere!” Then nothing happens and it’s another year of Vegas, Apex, Apex, Vegas, London, Apex, Mexico, Apex, Vegas, Bumblefuck Utah, Apex, Vegas, Australia, Vegas, Apex, Apex, Abu Dhabi, Apex, MSG, Apex, Vegas. They’re making dough so they don’t care. And they don’t have to put the same graft in and force us to care anymore. The money keeps rolling in from their TV deals, multiple sponsorships the fighters don’t get a cut of and the extortionate ticket prices they keep charging that the fans who are left are gullible enough to keep paying for. This isn’t gonna change now. They’ve found their formula. So I’m not even sure it is cyclical. They’ll keep the ball rolling as it is, then probably sell the whole thing to the Saudis and we’ll have Turki and his cronies sucking the fun out of everything.

I get some of your points Egg but I can’t agree. I love the sport as much as I ever did but even I’ve been skipping cards over the last year for the first time. Sure there’s always gonna be fans who simply lose interest and move on. But they’re alienating even some of the most dedicated fans at this point with their watering down cards and throat fucking us with their political shite. I don’t think it’s as simple as just saying ‘it’s on you to be more invested’. Maybe if they made the shows worth investing in people would actually give more of a shit. It’s on them to promote and generate interest but every time you see the ‘promoter’ these days he’s more interested in talking about Power Slap, or he’s promoting Boxing instead, or he’s licking Trump’s ringpiece or focusing on silly bollocks like a White House even that’s still a fucking year away.

The sad thing is, when they get it right, like this Holloway vs Poirier fight and Poirier’s retirement, you remember how good they really are at this shit when they actually try a bit. And I know this was a special case and not every card is gonna be like that. But that’s kind of the point. There was a time when probably 7 out of 10 PPVs were pretty stacked and at least 5 of the 10 felt special. Now you’re lucky to get a stacked card once every six months. And even the standard for what’s considered ‘stacked’ has lowered over the years. It all goes hand in hand with the lack of stars. Without stars and quality depth in the divisions, the quality of the shows will decline and have been for a few years. 

You look at a division like Heavyweight, which is supposed to be the big money division in combat sports. It’s dogshit. I think Tom Aspinall genuinely has the tools and qualities to become a star but it’s not likely to happen to any significant degree because he’s got no fucker to fight that’s interesting. Look at the state of this…

That’s your Top 15 in the world right there. Couple of decent fighters up top, then a sharp drop off from #5 on down. If you want any proof the division is in the toilet, they’ve still got Tai Tuivasa in the Top 10 despite him being on a 5 fight losing streak where he was finished in 4 of them, and he hasn’t fought in just shy of a year. Tallison Teixeira in the Top 15 as well, despite him only fighting twice in the UFC and coming off a first round knockout loss to Derrick Lewis. This is how bad that division is. If you’re a Heavyweight and you sign with the UFC today, if you have a pulse you’ll probably be ranked tomorrow. I see fans all the time saying the level of skill today is higher than it’s ever been. But tell me how many of that lot above would’ve cut it in the Heavyweight division of 8-12 years ago when you had prime Stipe, Cain, JDS, Overeem, Werdum, Barnett, Mir, Hunt, Nelson, Carwin, sometimes Lesnar, later Cormier. Fuck, Travis Browne probably smokes most of today’s 6-15 ranked guys. Old Nog and Cro Cop of 2010 probably do considerably better today than they did then. Light Heavyweight isn’t much better. Even Lightweight, which has long been held up as the deepest division in the UFC, yeah there’s some great and popular fighters still at 155. But you look closely and a lot of the names who’ve been bringing the heat at 155 are ageing out. Poirier just retired, Gaethje’s been talking retirement, Chandler doesn’t have much left, Holloway’s already into his 30s and has a lot of miles on him. Even Topuria might not be around too long, there’s been talk of him possibly retiring young like Khabib did, which would kind of explain why he seems to wanna collect belts and big names at a ridiculous rate. Cool, a generation of fighters never lasts forever. But who’s coming after them at 155? When that lot are done, who do we have left? Tsarukyan, Gamrot and fucking Paddy.

I’ve gone way off tangent but, yeah, I’m not gonna completely give up watching. But I don’t know how anyone, especially long term fans who actually lived through the better days, can say with a straight face that the quality of UFC shows in general hasn’t declined. 

[jimufctna24]

I personally don't consider the top UFC fighters today in most divisions to be superior to the best fighters from previous eras. From what I have seen, I wouldn't claim that any fighter in today's Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight divisions are superior to peak versions of Fedor or Jones. Would anyone be shocked if a peak Anderson Silva sparked DDP, GSP decisioned JDM, or prime Mighty Mouse beat Pantoja? And while I tire of the comparisons, as they are quite different fighters really, I still think Khabib was a better fighter than Makhachev all things considered. 

Again, I'm probably not best qualified to compare and contrast the quality of the UFC's overall roster to those of previous eras, so I will leave that to others. Ebb's point about about people moving on from hobbies is valid btw. But when normally enthusiastic and long-term fanatics are complaining, there is probably a bit more to it. 

 

[Egg Shen]

There is definitely more too it, how the UFC is being run outside of the cage, the political leanings, Dana's disinterest, the poxy Apex, the terrible journalists at events, it all ties in.

I'm talking purely about in cage quality, fighters are just getting better all the time (not at Heavyweight, granted), and especially in the lower weight classes. You can argue about rosters all day, there's no definitive answer, it's like the pointless pound for pound talk. We'll just have to agree to disagree on it 

[jimufctna24]

I think the poor quality of the Heavyweight division can be somewhat explained. Firstly, athletic big guys in the States are mostly swallowed up by the NBA and NFL.

Secondly, most of the ones left over and from other nations now have the means to cut weight to 185lbs or lower nowadays. Poatan, for example, is fucking massive and may have fought at Heavyweight in previous eras rather than 185lbs and 205lbs.

It also didn't help that Dana fell out with Ngannou and that Nemkov is tied up with the PFL. 

Edited July 22, 2025 by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

Yeah, the monster athletes just go play other sports from the jump, way more lucrative. 

[wandshogun09]

17 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

I'm talking purely about in cage quality, fighters are just getting better all the time (not at Heavyweight, granted), and especially in the lower weight classes. You can argue about rosters all day, there's no definitive answer, it's like the pointless pound for pound talk. We'll just have to agree to disagree on it 

I’m talking in cage quality as well as the other stuff. The lower weight classes are the better ones but even then, 145 and lower didn’t exist in the UFC before 2011. And like Jim says, I don’t necessarily think it is getting better all the time. The lower weight classes are deeper now than they were but I’m not sure how much better today’s top fighters are than a decade or more ago. If the overall skill level was that much better now, surely we wouldn’t have shite like Strickland and Pena still winning titles in recent years. Heavyweight isn’t the best example admittedly but I used it to show that even Heavyweight wasn’t that bad back then. 205 is significantly more shallow than it used to be. I’m not convinced 185 or 170 are any deeper than they were and 155 we’re seeing the current crop of big names coming to the end of the road. And the guys they’re grooming to replace them, a big chunk of them are coming from DWCS. I do get some of your points and I like your optimism but when you say you can argue about rosters all day, surely that’s what this whole discussion is about? If we’re talking about the quality of shows and whether they’re declining or improving, the roster is always gonna be the centre of the conversation.

Anyway, yeah, we’ll end up going round in circles with this shite ?

In other news, there’s gonna be a documentary on Dustin Poirier apparently. I’ll be all over this…

Edited July 23, 2025 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

4 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

And the guys they’re grooming to replace them, a big chunk of them are coming from DWCS. 

Anyway, yeah, we’ll end up going round in circles with shite?

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing thing though, it isn't like DWCS is a bum factory, several fighters who came through it became UFC Champions and many who fight on there are already Champions in different high level organisations. It's just a different way of being brought in, where else are new fighters going to come from? You'll get a few duds fall through the cracks but generally the standard coming off of there is very high.

New season actually starts in a few weeks 

Edited July 23, 2025 by Egg Shen