Chinatown: Mafia Scum Thread

[Retro Red]

Plus, Bristep, do you not think I'm being tunnelled from all corners? Other genuinely scummy actions are being overlooked based on the fact I've supposedly been 'defensive' - based on the fact I've played the same way I always do? That's weak justification given the numbers on the wagon against me at this stage. It's not like I've said anything remotely scummy, but there's been a mass-pile-on anyway. Kinda makes the whole day farcical to me. There's a reason the town nearly always lose, and it's because they follow the same pattern each game. The same people are early suspects, letting the scum either hide and let the town get on with a mid-lynch, or get behind said wagon.

 

Oh holy cow, You're making D1 accusations of tunnelling now? No. No I don't think you're being tunnelled from all corners.

 

you *are* hyper-defensive Ron, you just are. Stop trying to convince me otherwise because I promise you it's a wall you aren't going to break down.

 

And going back to that "There's a reason the town nearly always lose" argument that you used in your last game is funny given that you used it (except that it was "town always loses" at that point) to escape the noose AS SCUM. Now that's farcical to me.

[Retro Red]

Yeah, fair point I guess.

 

Like I said, I can't be doing with Snake at all, but I was fighting a losing battle against him last game (when I really did think he was scum and really did want him dead, because I thought it would help IC and win me some town points) and I was wrong. That's why I'm not even trying with him this game. I figure if he's scum, he'll trip up sooner or later...or everyone else will get as sick of his schtick as I already have. Teedy bothers me less. He just seems a bit more engaged with, y'know, the actual game. With Ron, I just don't get a scummy feeling from him and, as I said, I think the case on him is weak. Bristep - if Ron gets to the point of roleclaiming and you buy his claim, who would you pursue instead?

 

It's like I said, we're now 11 hours from deadline, so it's not about hunting anymore it's about deciding which wagon is the most likely to give us a scum flip (even if it's 10% and 15% you'd still go for the 15% over the 10%). We don't have a concrete lynch, we never do on day 1 but going by Ron's logic (i.e where his vote is) YOU are the correct choice to lynch today. Ron jumped on your (the competing) wagon as soon as his started to grow, whereas you've been(or at least given the impression of) scum hunting and built a case on someone else.

 

I know which action gives me more of a townlean right now.

Are you trying to persuade Kenny to hop on a wagon for me? If I do get lynched I think this'll end up a very significant post for the town later so I'm going to note it.

FOS BRISTEP123

 

Actually he asked me a question, and I answered it. I actually like his case on Chris, I don't agree with it but I think it's far townier than yours. Just my opinion, but damn right if you do flip town then this should be referred back to.

[Ron Simmons]

Plus, Bristep, do you not think I'm being tunnelled from all corners? Other genuinely scummy actions are being overlooked based on the fact I've supposedly been 'defensive' - based on the fact I've played the same way I always do? That's weak justification given the numbers on the wagon against me at this stage. It's not like I've said anything remotely scummy, but there's been a mass-pile-on anyway. Kinda makes the whole day farcical to me. There's a reason the town nearly always lose, and it's because they follow the same pattern each game. The same people are early suspects, letting the scum either hide and let the town get on with a mid-lynch, or get behind said wagon.

 

Oh holy cow, You're making D1 accusations of tunnelling now? No. No I don't think you're being tunnelled from all corners.

 

you *are* hyper-defensive Ron, you just are. Stop trying to convince me otherwise because I promise you it's a wall you aren't going to break down.

 

And going back to that "There's a reason the town nearly always lose" argument that you used in your last game is funny given that you used it (except that it was "town always loses" at that point) to escape the noose AS SCUM. Now that's farcical to me.

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm not entirely sure you're a town player to convince. I'm kinda being pushed to claim, so I will. I'm a vigilante. Not a day vig, I didn't kill brownie. I'm a night vig, which suggests to me there's a serial killer about.

[Retro Red]

Plus, Bristep, do you not think I'm being tunnelled from all corners? Other genuinely scummy actions are being overlooked based on the fact I've supposedly been 'defensive' - based on the fact I've played the same way I always do? That's weak justification given the numbers on the wagon against me at this stage. It's not like I've said anything remotely scummy, but there's been a mass-pile-on anyway. Kinda makes the whole day farcical to me. There's a reason the town nearly always lose, and it's because they follow the same pattern each game. The same people are early suspects, letting the scum either hide and let the town get on with a mid-lynch, or get behind said wagon.

 

Oh holy cow, You're making D1 accusations of tunnelling now? No. No I don't think you're being tunnelled from all corners.

 

you *are* hyper-defensive Ron, you just are. Stop trying to convince me otherwise because I promise you it's a wall you aren't going to break down.

 

And going back to that "There's a reason the town nearly always lose" argument that you used in your last game is funny given that you used it (except that it was "town always loses" at that point) to escape the noose AS SCUM. Now that's farcical to me.

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm not entirely sure you're a town player to convince. I'm kinda being pushed to claim, so I will. I'm a vigilante. Not a day vig, I didn't kill brownie. I'm a night vig, which suggests to me there's a serial killer about.

 

3 kills per day/night in a 13 player game?

[Retro Red]

Now on my phone, will have to be brief. Chris posted a link showing my math was wrong, I used that to make my correction. You're ignoring that.

 

The 'I've only been scum once' prior to this game was 'I've never been scum before' tried and tested.

 

Accusing you of scum in every other game I've played. 2 games, one of which I was scum the other I don't recall going after you and if I did I didn't make a big iso read.

I'm not ignoring the link. I think that forced you into correcting your intentionally false maths.

 

The 'I've only been scum once' prior to this game was 'I've never been scum before' tried and tested.

If you look at my play style, how I'm playing now will almost certainly match up with my non-scum games. It's a relevant defence, I get accused of being scum in nearly every game which is frustrating, but I get involved in play, as you should, and that makes me an easy target to accuse. Last game when I was scum I felt more comfortable in sitting back, because I knew who the scum was (or so I thought) so could easily blend in. In this game - and in my other games - I actually have to scum hunt to win. So that means I have to present cases, and therefore play differently. I'll regret pointing this out in later games when I actually am scum I'm sure, but what the hell.

 

And your other games? You HAVE gone after me, particularly in the one where you were scum. As you're doing now. Coincidence?

 

Know what? Lynch me if you like. You've all been led by Bristep again, sometimes the most vocal people AREN'T scum, you need another wake-up call to see that. I'd rather go early and then people like him will get found out, as will all the sheep doing what they're told.

 

Then maybe we can win the game. There's a reason the town is on a lose streak - predictable patterns are followed each game, and people wrongfully get lynched for the same reasons.

 

Power wise I might as well claim, I'm a neighbouriser and my plan was to create a network of people I trust on the sly and then try to work out who was scum by plotting under the radar. There are one or two people I believe to be town that I'd consider neighbouring tonight.

 

All I can say is trust me, I'll vote whoever the consensus is with.

 

Just to back this up slightly, these are from Ron in the last UKFF game he played. He was scum. There's a reason why the "derp derp this is how I always play" "derp derp town lose because they always follow the same patterns" argument holds no water anymore. BECAUSE HE USED THEM AS SCUM TO FOOL THE TOWN AND AVOID THE NOOSE.

[Teedy Kay]

He's a reaction getter, same as Teedy and same as me.

I'm going to be honest here, when brownie got got I was bricking it with full expectation that the majority may have been pinning it on me, after the way I played last game it would have made absolute resonate logic to finger either me or Snake and to an extent as bristep mentions, bristep. Claimed a 'randomised kill for fun' and fingered especially me or Snake based on the fact Brownie was a Mega-Power

 

Otherwise it's everyone playing touchy feely detective asking fay questions and then dissapearing into their thoughts. You *need* people to take the game by the balls, stand in the middle of the room with big alarm bells on. You're trying to panic the town that "OMG guys Snake might be scum because he acted like scum last time and if he does it this time we might not notice!".

 

You're completely twisting and misrepping the case on you, saying that it's because you respond to everything, but that's not the case at all. I stated categorically that what set me off on you was turning round to Teedy after a FOS based on a completely valid fact, said it was a misrep (it wasn't), called it a full on accusation (it wasn't), and said that Teedy looked scummy for even suggesting it (he didn't). I always take my reads from reactions over actions, but you don't ever really seem to acknowledge that fact, it's always just derp derp derp people are stupid or scum for lynching me derp derp derp.

 

You hide behind meta and just call cases on you stupid, misrep, you round on people and accuse them, all while accusing people of the same. You tick the most boxes right now, and that's why I think you're the most likely person to flip scum right now.

 

This, this and once more this.

 

And Ron, surely you can actually see why the thought process is in that direction?

[Kenny McBride]

To clarify then Bristep - I'd be your second pick? Any other suspicions just now? Bear in mind that your work on Ron comes under pretty much the same case as the one I made on Chris.

[Retro Red]

To clarify then Bristep - I'd be your second pick? Any other suspicions just now? Bear in mind that your work on Ron comes under pretty much the same case as the one I made on Chris.

 

You're the only other valid wagon right now Kenny, unless the game decides as a whole that someone else is worth lynching, and it'd have to be quick, then you're the only other option right now.

 

D1 isn't about outright catching scum, we're just not good enough for that. It's about who ticked the most boxes to make the best chance of being right, lynching them and hoping we're right, then we can use the wagon analysis later on in the game to aid scum hunting (which is why lynching lurkers early on is bad play).

[Retro Red]

I tend to get solid suspicions on overall gameplay on N1, based on the first flip. That's when your play started to stand out to me in the last game and that's why I voted for you D2. I didn't know you were scum, but I had enough there to suspect you, and the vote was designed to garner reaction (which it did from Chris).

[Chris_Stone]

Kenny answer me a few questions;

 

Before the case on Ron what else did we have? I've made a case on what we have, i'll be the first to admit that come d2 or d3 I'd be looking for something more solid to lynch on but his over defensiveness, being unable to provide anything other than meta game arguments.

 

Personally, if he does flip town I believe you to be an absolute suspect - suspect me all you like, if you want to talk about my throwing suspicion on innocents in the last game, that's not necessarily too true anyway a lot of my cases were built on the other scum team, hell i think Dazz even felt the burn of it at times too.

 

I mean, you've defended him pretty hard here, if you're scum you'd know he was town, nice little town points, something you admitted trying to get on Snake in the last game - buddy up Mcbride but it doesn't give us your confirmed innocence.

 

The way i see it is this:

 

If he flips town, not only do we need to look at the wagon and people on it (myself included) but also people who seem to throw in last minute defenses, are you defending Ron to stop the lynch, or because if he flips town you'll look town?

[Kenny McBride]

Kenny answer me a few questions;

 

Before the case on Ron what else did we have? I've made a case on what we have, i'll be the first to admit that come d2 or d3 I'd be looking for something more solid to lynch on but his over defensiveness, being unable to provide anything other than meta game arguments.

 

Personally, if he does flip town I believe you to be an absolute suspect - suspect me all you like, if you want to talk about my throwing suspicion on innocents in the last game, that's not necessarily too true anyway a lot of my cases were built on the other scum team, hell i think Dazz even felt the burn of it at times too.

 

I mean, you've defended him pretty hard here, if you're scum you'd know he was town, nice little town points, something you admitted trying to get on Snake in the last game - buddy up Mcbride but it doesn't give us your confirmed innocence.

 

The way i see it is this:

 

If he flips town, not only do we need to look at the wagon and people on it (myself included) but also people who seem to throw in last minute defenses, are you defending Ron to stop the lynch, or because if he flips town you'll look town?

 

Chris - I know you're a smart player. You read the last game really well (too well for me!), but jumping on Ron, particularly for the comment about him having been scum in Carbomb's last game just stuck in my craw. I thought I'd throw a vote on you and see where it took me. This early in the game, I appreciate that we don't have much to go on but a wagon is rolling on Ron and I thought it was pushed on a weak case. What I meant to do? Let someone who I think doesn't actually look very scummy get lynched? Your case is nice too. If I lynch him and he's town, I'm scum. If he's town and I don't lynch him, I'm scum. If I don't lynch him and he IS scum, no doubt that makes me scum too. And I'm sure you'd be able to explain me bussing him D1 if I vote for him now and he is scum. No doubt that would be "distancing".

[Teedy Kay]

If I lynch him and he's town, I'm scum. If he's town and I don't lynch him, I'm scum. If I don't lynch him and he IS scum, no doubt that makes me scum too. And I'm sure you'd be able to explain me bussing him D1 if I vote for him now and he is scum. No doubt that would be "distancing".

 

Buh ... huh ... limey!

[Chris_Stone]

Heh, i'm not trying to paint as scum no matter what you do Kenny, but what I am trying to say is that just because you defend him, a town flip doesn't necessairly mean you're also innocent.

 

If you don't think he is scummy, fair enough i actually appreciate the fact that you're looking for alternatives, especially when the only other wagon right now is on yourself but don't think that if you're doing it for any other reasons than being pro-town i wont look for that reasoning and jump on you the second i feel i have something - because i will.

 

Your responses sound reasonable, even your suspicion on me seems to be for the right reasons, albeit misguided. What i would say on my arguement vs you is that it is all subjective to the way you've acted so far in the game and how you continue to act from here on out, the point i was mainly trying to make is that no matter how any of us vote, whether away from the wagon or on it there could be scum reasoning, it's the interpretation of posts that helps us to determine if it is or not though. I'm not going to paint you as scum simply because you went either way, such could probably be done on anybody, but i'll read the posts and see what i think motivations were.

 

Anyway in my mind +town points for you kenny at the moment.

[Ron Simmons]

I'll try post a substantial post later tonight, but don't any of you find it a tad strange there's only ONE wagon on the go? If I was scum surely someone would have attempted a counter-wagon at some stage? It's pretty ridiculous to be honest.

[Ron Simmons]

And Bristep - I don't have to kill every night, so although there's three kills (potentially) I don't have to use mine unless I feel I should.