Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Quite! I do wonder what enjoyment can be got out of pretending to be fucking stupid, on an internet forum , week after week, month after month. Make a massive generalisation, have it disproved, ignore the response and move on to the next Daily Mail headline. Everybody can see what you're doing, Happ.  To then have the gall to behave like this in one area of the forum, and then whinge and moan when people treat you like an idiot in another part, is pretty sad.  I say again, I DID ask a different question, which Chris B saw fit to edit off his quote, before asking me to ask a different question.  The left are the ones that do not know how to argue. They make statements of "fact" and will not accept that some people just do not see things that way.  Look at the Guardian CIF pages, where any argument that goes against the liberal line is immediately met by bleats of "Tory Troll, Tory Troll, astroturfing, can't you afford the Times subscription etc etc". What is that other than people who simply do not want to argue their point, but would rather post in a forum that contains only views that reinforce their own?  Are you for real? Do you not see the correlation between the rise of a generation of selfish twats who believe that "me" is the only thing that's important, and a proliferation of kids with a shit attitude stemming from "parenting" by said "me" generation, i.e. parents who would rather berate teachers and expect them to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong rather than do it themselves? A huge problem in education at the moment is that teachers get no support from parents when disciplining badly behaved kids. I see a correlation between a government prioritising "rights" over responsibilities. If a parent berates a teacher, they should be told to send their children to a school that fits there expectations of what a school should be like, because they will NOT be welcome at this school in the future. The whole ethos of "inclusion" is bullshit, schools should set rules that should be followed to the absolute letter, zero tolerance whatsoever.  The biggest problem in this country is people that know that the state will bend over backwards not to have do anything about their bad behaviour. It shouldn't be this way at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 Look at the Guardian CIF pages, where any argument that goes against the liberal line is immediately met by bleats of "Tory Troll, Tory Troll, astroturfing, can't you afford the Times subscription etc etc". What is that other than people who simply do not want to argue their point, but would rather post in a forum that contains only views that reinforce their own? Do you have some sort of issue with the Guardian CIF pages Happ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 What about people working for low wages in the private sector, that have to pay increasingly large council tax bills in order to fund the inordinately high wages and benefits of those in the public sector? How are they benefitting from Labour's increases in public sector spending?  They got a radically improved health service, almost beyond recognition from when I was young....  It's not a question of whether Labour made the NHS better  You asked the question, how did private sector workers benefit from the increases, I answered, you then changed the question.  You've been caught out. Again.  And you wonder why you got banned from CiF. I imagine you get banned from a lot of places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 What about people working for low wages in the private sector, that have to pay increasingly large council tax bills in order to fund the inordinately high wages and benefits of those in the public sector? How are they benefitting from Labour's increases in public sector spending?  They got a radically improved health service, almost beyond recognition from when I was young....  It's not a question of whether Labour made the NHS better  You asked the question, how did private sector workers benefit from the increases, I answered, you then changed the question.  You've been caught out. Again.  And you wonder why you got banned from CiF. I imagine you get banned from a lot of places.  I get the impression he wanted the entire question answered with all factors in the question considered, not just the final bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Look at the Guardian CIF pages, where any argument that goes against the liberal line is immediately met by bleats of "Tory Troll, Tory Troll, astroturfing, can't you afford the Times subscription etc etc". What is that other than people who simply do not want to argue their point, but would rather post in a forum that contains only views that reinforce their own? Do you have some sort of issue with the Guardian CIF pages Happ? They're a good place for people with differing viewpoints to discuss things. I do have a problem with posters on there referring to anyone with a right of centre view of being "Tory trolls" or "Astroturfers", as if anyone with an opposing view to their own, is either only pretending to do so to get a rise out of the Guardianistas, or is being paid to do so. Â Their policy on removing posts and banning people is fairly inconsistent, and it seems to be at the behest of the contributors or moderators, many of whom have fairly extreme views themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 What about people working for low wages in the private sector, that have to pay increasingly large council tax bills in order to fund the inordinately high wages and benefits of those in the public sector? How are they benefitting from Labour's increases in public sector spending?  They got a radically improved health service, almost beyond recognition from when I was young....  It's not a question of whether Labour made the NHS better  You asked the question, how did private sector workers benefit from the increases, I answered, you then changed the question.  You've been caught out. Again.  And you wonder why you got banned from CiF. I imagine you get banned from a lot of places. Council tax doesn't fund the health service.  Are you in favour of people being banned for having opinions that you disagree with? Isn't that completely contrary to liberalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators neil Posted April 6, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2011 Are you in favour of people being banned for having opinions that you disagree with? Isn't that completely contrary to liberalism? I doubt you actually get banned for having contrary views, but instead because your constant changing of the goalposts leads moderators to assume you are just a troll. Maybe you should try and work on your debate skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Are you in favour of people being banned for having opinions that you disagree with? Isn't that completely contrary to liberalism? I doubt you actually get banned for having contrary views, but instead because your constant changing of the goalposts leads moderators to assume you are just a troll. Maybe you should try and work on your debate skills? Can you define this "changing of the goalposts"? Â Who exactly has the authority to say "this discussion is now over, now another discussion can begin"? Â Are you unable to accept that someone might understand exactly what is being said, and simply disagree with it? Or is your ethos, like Labour's, that no-one can possibly disagree with you, it's just a matter of explaining it the right way? Â If the purpose of this thread is to bully people into accepting - or at least not arguing against - leftist ideas, then I can see why me posting on it might be a problem. If it is a general politics thread, as it is titled, than right-wing views are equally as valid as left-wing ones, so continually criticising people for having them WITHOUT actually providing reasonable argument against them, is riduculous. Â Some people on here do provide somewhat reasonable argument, but there are plenty who merely come out with the "Tory troll", "Daily Mail reader" comments so beloved of many of the Guardian faithful. If non response to these posts consitutures "changing of the goalposts", then I am absolutely guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSybianRider Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 What I don't understand is your avatar. Did you not get that programme at all? Or is it intended as a tribute to the system that keeps Bubbles in the gutter selling t-shirts for a couple of dollars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators neil Posted April 6, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2011 Can you define this "changing of the goalposts"? Numerous people did this on the last couple of pages. I suggest you read their posts. Â Who exactly has the authority to say "this discussion is now over, now another discussion can begin"? I do. Â Are you unable to accept that someone might understand exactly what is being said, and simply disagree with it? Or is your ethos, like Labour's, that no-one can possibly disagree with you, it's just a matter of explaining it the right way? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with anything, but when your continued stance is to dance around what people are responding to you with then the natural assumption is either a) you don't know how to have a discussion or b) you're a troll. Â If the purpose of this thread is to bully people into accepting - or at least not arguing against - leftist ideas, then I can see why me posting on it might be a problem. If it is a general politics thread, as it is titled, than right-wing views are equally as valid as left-wing ones, so continually criticising people for having them WITHOUT actually providing reasonable argument against them, is riduculous. It's not. People have provided numerous reasonable arguments with you. If you really aren't a troll then I'm sure you get banned from places because of your "head in the sand" style of posting. That leads to people getting incredibly annoyed, and reaches the point where a moderator just boots you off because you're a pain in the arse. Â But yeah, stick with the "liberial bias" conspiracy theory if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Whilst I don't technically agree with Happ on a lot of things, the term troll is just so lame and thrown around on here and other forums these days, its almost become a mandatory term for somebody you don't get along with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 What about people working for low wages in the private sector, that have to pay increasingly large council tax bills in order to fund the inordinately high wages and benefits of those in the public sector? How are they benefitting from Labour's increases in public sector spending?  They got a radically improved health service, almost beyond recognition from when I was young....  It's not a question of whether Labour made the NHS better  You asked the question, how did private sector workers benefit from the increases, I answered, you then changed the question.  You've been caught out. Again.  And you wonder why you got banned from CiF. I imagine you get banned from a lot of places. Council tax doesn't fund the health service.  No it doesn't, so it was a stupid question. Even so, it's set by councils, not central government. Tory and Liberal councils have put council tax up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Can you define this "changing of the goalposts"? Numerous people did this on the last couple of pages. I suggest you read their posts. Â Who exactly has the authority to say "this discussion is now over, now another discussion can begin"? I do. Have you used this authority at any point in this thread? Or was it not a problem while it was a liberal mutual masturbation session? Â It's not. People have provided numerous reasonable arguments with you. Reasonable in YOUR opinion. Not in fact. Arguments are subjective. Â If you really aren't a troll then I'm sure you get banned from places because of your "head in the sand" style of posting. "Head in the sand" as in what? Picking and choosing what posts to reply to? Isn't that the point of a forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Today marks the beginning of the new tax year. I imagine many on the forum will notice the effect of having a non-Labour government on their payslip, as tax is reduced for everyone earning under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I like tough talking Neil Jolly good show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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