General politics discussion thread

[gary v1]

 

Your best is a fairly low standard, you berk.

 

The most generous percentage that I can find, the one touted by the City of London itself (which is hardly likely to downplay its own importance) puts the financial sector's total tax contribution for 2009/10 at 11.2% of total government tax receipts.

 

Here's the PWC report they commissioned, which you will of course not read.

 

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/68F49A...FinalForWeb.pdf

And of course tax income is only about 35% of the government's total yearly income, so the financial sector contributes perhaps 4% of GDP.

 

The financial sectors is undoubtedly a major, if not THE major contributor of tax revenue, but the tax-profit ratio is stunningly low (hence people's anger). Your argument is, as always, mere hot air.

 

This surprises me. Where does the other 65% of their income come from? I know they're slowly selling off all their banking shares but really it's never occured to me that the vast vast majority of the government's income doesn't comes from tax, NI, levies etc which are really all tax.

 

Also you seem to imply that GDP = government income which wasn't my understanding at all. GDP is the total amount of goods and services produced by a country in any given year. Not all of this ends up as tax for the government surely?

Edited March 6, 2011 by gary v1

[Happ Hazzard]

My mistake, the benefits bill is actually more than the total income tax take. Still more than we should be paying though. And how high are we prepared to let it get before certain people will admit that it is unsustainable?

 

Loki, quoting something someone else said to me and I went on to quote does not equal "a direct quote from me". Take it down.

[David]

Keep on convincing yourself that being liberal makes you superior.

It's not being liberal that makes him superior to you, it's the fact that he doesn't pluck figures out of thin air to back up his arguments that makes him superior

[Happ Hazzard]

Keep on convincing yourself that being liberal makes you superior.

It's not being liberal that makes him superior to you, it's the fact that he doesn't pluck figures out of thin air to back up his arguments that makes him superior

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/565...ax-revenue.html

[Bashar]

Take it down.

 

What makes you the judge of what a fair quotation is?

 

the benefits bill is actually more than the total income tax take

 

I can find articles where you got this from, which is a slight improvement I suppose - but it's still quite misleading. The total welfare bill last year was around

[Loki]

 

Your best is a fairly low standard, you berk.

 

The most generous percentage that I can find, the one touted by the City of London itself (which is hardly likely to downplay its own importance) puts the financial sector's total tax contribution for 2009/10 at 11.2% of total government tax receipts.

 

Here's the PWC report they commissioned, which you will of course not read.

 

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/68F49A...FinalForWeb.pdf

And of course tax income is only about 35% of the government's total yearly income, so the financial sector contributes perhaps 4% of GDP.

 

The financial sectors is undoubtedly a major, if not THE major contributor of tax revenue, but the tax-profit ratio is stunningly low (hence people's anger). Your argument is, as always, mere hot air.

 

This surprises me. Where does the other 65% of their income come from? I know they're slowly selling off all their banking shares but really it's never occured to me that the vast vast majority of the government's income doesn't comes from tax, NI, levies etc which are really all tax.

 

Also you seem to imply that GDP = government income which wasn't my understanding at all. GDP is the total amount of goods and services produced by a country in any given year. Not all of this ends up as tax for the government surely?

 

Sorry, I meant GDP. The tax income from the financial sector is 35% of GDP, tax from financial services therefore 4% of GDP.

[Happ Hazzard]

Take it down.

 

What makes you the judge of what a fair quotation is?

 

the benefits bill is actually more than the total income tax take

 

I can find articles where you got this from, which is a slight improvement I suppose - but it's still quite misleading. The total welfare bill last year was around

[Loki]

I'm in agreement on that, tax credits are a stupid way of doing things.

 

Also, Happ, your quote in your sig is grammatically incorrect. Nobody's going to buy that's actually me Perhaps you should spend some more time going back through my post history until you find a quote that's a complete sentence?

[Happ Hazzard]

At least you said it, unlike your sig which is something that John Lister said.

[tom]

At least you said it, unlike your sig which is something that John Lister said.

Oh really......

 

If your idea of "engaging in a sensible adult conversation" equates to "listening to liberal views, realising they are the correct ones to have, and going away an affirmed liberal", you are right, I am unable to engage in a sensible adult conversation

 

See, this nifty quote thing demonstrates that you did in fact say the contents of quote in Loki's sig. Now of course, you can argue that it is out of context, but you did indeed say those words in that particular order in the same sentence whereas you've simply taken statements from different places and joined them together to imply a different meaning, exactly like

[Jonathan Ford]

 

Your best is a fairly low standard, you berk.

Kudos.

 

Different figures are flying around the internet, for both the cost of benefits and tax revenue. The best information I can find is that the cost of all UK benefits, including stuff like winter fuel payments, pensions, TV licences, maternity pay, as well as welfare benefits was approximately

Edited March 6, 2011 by Jonathan Ford

[Bashar]

The point is that the use of the word 'benefits' is misleading and employed to eliberately mislead. Yes, the DWP's expenditure was the amount you say - but the use of the word 'benefits' in this context serves only to twist the debate. This is why people like Happ Hazzard start getting messed up ideas so easily. The state pension is money that has to be paid from government expenditure, but I think quite a lot of pensioners would resent it being called a 'benefit'.

[Dynamite Duane]

Making the news currently is the 7/7 inquest. There are still unanswered questions going by what I read in the i on Friday. No mention of the training drill happening on the day and in the same place as where the bombs went off. And check out this picture from the CCTV footage on 7/7:

 

The rather suspect image has never been explained away in any investigations.

 

7/7: the conspiracy theories

By Darshna Soni Updated on 04 June 2007

Darshna Soni reports on the conspiracy beliefs surrounding 7/7 at seven.

 

There are a number of apparent inconsistencies in the official version of events surrounding the July bombings which have led to questions, rumours and conspiracy theories.

 

Many of these can be found on the web. Some call themselves truth campaigners, other are the same people who believe 9/11 and the assassination of JFK were all ordered by the American government.

 

They list evidence which apparently doesn't add up. For example, the official Home Office report into the bombings stated that the four bombers caught the 7.40am train from Luton to London. However, there was no 7.40 that morning, it had been cancelled. The Home Secretary, John Reid, apologized for the error in parliament, blaming erroneous first-hand witness accounts.

 

Whichever train the bombers did catch, when they got to London, there appears to be no photograph of the 4 of them together in the capital - no CCTV either, despite London having one of the highest numbers of surveillance cameras of any city in the world.

 

Of the one photograph there is of the men - questions have been raised about its authenticity. It apparently shows railings coming out of mens' arm.

 

There are lots of other theories. For example, one company is reported to have been running a security exercise on the day. Another eye witness says no Asians got on the bus at all.

 

Channel 4 website - 2007

 

 

Also thought I'd bring this to your attention:

 

7/7 researcher Muad'Dib was on trial the same day as Julian Assange - 11/11/10, yet his case got no mainstream media attention. He's since been imprisoned for 140 plus days.

 

To find out more on Muad'Dib's case visit Friends of Muad'Dib - you can also download his video 7/7 Ripple Effect, watch it then decide why he was imprisoned. Imprisoned for providing evidence to aid justice and truth?

 

Apols if others think this should be slotted into the Fortean/Conspiracy theory thread, personally I don't see this sitting neatly along with stuff about aliens and 2012 end of the world theories.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Dynamite Duane

[Chris B]

No, it fits in very neatly. They're all bollocks as well.

[Loki]

 

I don't know if the gamma on your screen is too low or something, but if we're talking about the guy top centre, the railing is going in front of the pillar which you can see extending above his hear in the distance behind him. Other than that, I can't see anything in that picture that's suspect.

 

And, yes, this belongs in the conspiracy thread.

 

Also, since I'm in work on a Sunday and have the patience of a saint, I took the time to track down this one:

 

For example, one company is reported to have been running a security exercise on the day.

 

This was a security consultant doing a powerpoint presentation to 6 people in a nearby office. He probably does 4 or 5 a week around London.

 

Incidentally, Muad-Dib is another of Duane's reliable sources:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8124687.stm

 

He believes he's Jesus and thinks George Lucas had the plot of Star Wars telepathically inserted into his brain by the Force.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Loki