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I loved how real the story felt. It was a totally one sided feud at first. Bret picked Austin, basically as a warm up match, before he went after the proper stars but Austin just refused to let things go no matter how many times he lost. It really felt like he was supposed to go back to the Midcard and just went “fuck that”.

It’s surprising that no promotion has tried to do anything similar. It didn’t hurt Bret at all but helped elevate Austin into the biggest star in the business. 

16 hours ago, Merzbow said:

This didn't really catch on fire at the time, did it? The guy does look like a piece of shit from older tweets whe he was a teenager or whatever but still.

It came out pretty quickly that he never actually worked for AEW, but a third party, and then he admitted that Cody was perfectly nice to him the one time they met.

It was kind of a non-story really.

Same guy also got kicked out of DDP’s house.

2 hours ago, Accident Prone said:

As someone who's knowledge of WCW in the 90's is patchy at best, what happened to Ole Anderson and Barry Windham? I'm watching a lot of early 90's WCW at the moment (jumping back and forth between time periods) and they seem so integral to the Four Horsemen, but then they just seem to disappear. 

I haven't watched much of it either but Ole was the Head Booker, until he got fired after the Black Scorpion shite. He's also famously unlikeable, which is why probably why they didn't keep him around as a talent.

Similar stuff happened in WCW a lot. 

1 hour ago, gmoney said:

Wasn't Windham involved in a counterfeiting scam around that time?

It was just Blackjack and Kendall but Baz had to sort it, presumably because he was the only one with money that was real.

It's kind of sweet that Ole has spent decades shitting on Flair to anybody who will listen, and Flair still expected a kind message from him. I'm not sure I can buy that Flair and Tully were so close either, given how long Tully was blackballed for.

The Horsemen making an appearance in AEW seems obvious though. Arn owns the name, he and Tully work there and Flair will 100% be around at some point for his son in law's Starrcast events, if not before.

Don't know who you make the fourth but it's not like there isn't a decent amount of people to choose from. 

4 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

Flair and Arn always struck me as two very different types of person anyway. While I'm sure Arn liked a drink, I think Naitch lived the gimmick a lot more. 

Especially nowadays.

I'm 40. If my mates still acted the way we did when we were 20, I'd have "grown apart" from them as well, and my mates are fairly sensible. I can only imagine being in my 60s, retired and wanting to spend time with the Grandkids, while my 70 year old mate still wants to party and piss money away like a fucking idiot.

Pure speculation on my part here but isn't it likely that Nick Khan's pay is linked to WWE's profit margins and he really doesn't give the slightest fuck about the on-screen product?

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

I don’t remember hearing of AEW, Impact etc releasing anyone despite their revenue streams clearly taking a massive battering in some cases.

If anything AEW went in the opposite direction. They seemed to be going out of their way to give pay days, and exposure, to as many wrestlers as possible, just because they were one of the only promotions who could. Dark went from about 30 minutes pre-pandemic to 2 hours largely with unsigned guys doing jobs. Suge D even got a mini feud with Jericho out of it.

It's mad that we're only a couple of years away from WWE paying Anderson and Gallows silly money to stop them going to AEW. Now they are sacking off the likes of Wyatt and Strowman and, apparently, letting Bryan's contract expire.

It might sound stupid but out of the promotions I watch regularly, I'd actually like to see him go to New Japan, rather than AEW or Impact. They could really do with someone NEW and I think he'd benefit from not being able to rely on all the supernatural stuff.

That might just be me desperately wanting him to stay the fuck away from the Dark Order though. It's the most wholesome, likeable gimmick in years. The last thing they need is to go back to all the "Oooh. We're a spooky Cult" bollocks. Either he sticks on a cowboy hat and bows down -1 or he can fuck off.

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

I can see the dual releases being an issue going forward, but I do wonder how much the impact actually was with it during a pandemic. How many more people really would've gone to the cinema? Or were Disney expected to hold these movies back for an indefinite period?

I do think it's a tough call from a business perspective for sure.

If you believe her side, and Disney's response doesn't really deny it, then Johansson's people tried to re-negotiate the deal but Disney completely stonewalled them.

Suing is fair enough in the case isn't it? Going "Ah...But COVID..." is a really shitty comeback when it's so utterly one-sided. They can't simultaneously argue that COVID changed everything while also refusing to acknowledge that it also changed things for her. I mean, they can, and have, but it makes them look like total cunts.

I doubt it'll even make court. She's already won the most important battle - The P.R one. She'll get a huge pay off, and a public apology on the condition that she publicly accepts it. Surely there's no way they are going to fight a lawsuit that risks both alienating the audience and other big name actors? 

7 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

I know it sounds a tad petulant but if they've really ditched Adam for the ex-WWE star them I'm out.

Is it though?

One of the reasons I stopped watching WWE and TNA was because of how often they'd get me invested in a story and then fuck it up. I'm not saying I'll stop watching but, this is one of my favourite stories ever, and a bad ending would leave an awful taste in my mouth.

I'm really hoping it's a work. Regardless of whatever else is going on, Omega needs to drop the belt to Page clean. Hangman can drop the title on the very next Dynamite if need be. We just need to see a satisfying ending to THIS part of the story first before we move on.

3 minutes ago, gmoney said:

Why does the story have to end at All Out, (all) out of interest? Why couldn't they extend it, have Omega beat Punk and Bryan, then have Page beat Omega in a few months? There's plenty of interest and milage in it I reckon. 

I think they've come too far to turn back now. There's a real risk of Lugering Hangman here. The story that "Hangman is amazing but he doesn't believe in himself and had friends who wouldn't support him" is kind of fucked if he resolves all that and still fucking loses.

I'm always fascinated by stuff like this, solely because Vince is a total weirdo with very little self-awareness. They'll obviously TRY and portray him as the hero but given the story, and his personality, it could be a very interesting watch.

The legal aspect will be interesting too. You can't really tell the story without showing at least SOME wrestlers in a really bad light but which ones? Hogan is obvious but he's on good terms with them right now and has the money to defend himself. A lot of others aren't around to defend themselves, which could look horrible for the company. Do they just invent people or say "fuck it" and deal with the consequences later?

Or do they go down the Wolf of Wall Street route and act like the only real villains are the Authorities?

Some companies can be really weird with their hiring processes.

Despite having worked at a reasonably high level as a Chef, I applied for a couple of KP jobs in care homes near me. It was significantly less money but far better hours and both are pretty much on my doorstep. I never even got to the interview stage. One was an immediate rejection and the other didn't even bother replying. I assume that they decided that I was overqualified and that I'd fuck off if I got a better offer, but isn't that what interviews are for? It's only been a couple of months and I've seen both places re-advertising the jobs a few times already.

On the plus side, my current job as a Support Worker is amazing. More money than I used to be on but half the hours and a feeling that I'm actually helping people. I'd happily do a lot of it for free.

21 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I still don't understand the desire for a Cody title shot. The point about stipulations having meaning is, for me, far, far more important than a Cody title reign. It's not like they're low on people who would be good at it.

Agreed.

I also think there's a lot more interesting storyline possibilities WITH the stipulation than without it and they haven't explored any of them so far. For example he can't hold the title but he can stop others from holding it, or injuring the Champion so badly that they have to vacate it. A feud with MJF along those lines would be awesome.

You could also turn him heel with him trying to live vicariously through Dustin or his trainees, pressuring them to win the title in his place and getting frustrated when they aren't good enough.

It's a unique position. I don't really get why people want to undo it when there's so many places that they can go.

Am I the only one who thinks that it was Kenny who convinced Hangman to cost the Bucks their title shot then? He spent most of their tag run saying stuff like "We're the Champions but the Bucks are the best team in the world" and how lucky they were to win at Revolution, I can absolutely see him begging Page to do it, because he didn't think they'd be able to beat them again.

It shows how amazing the story is that, as great as that Twitter thread was, there's so many other wee layers that were left out. Like Hangman winning the tag titles on his own while Kenny was slumped in the corner or the amazing BTE bit when Hangman walked in while the Dark Order were chanting "Fuck Hangman!" only to JOIN IN! That's one of the best things I've seen in years.

Such a great great story.

1 hour ago, dopper said:

That may have been Francine's reason for the animosity. I'll have to dig out her ROH Straight Shooting DVD and check again.

I think I remember Douglas saying in an interview that they weren't getting along even before he left for WCW and they were still together on-screen. But I can't remember his account of what started it. 

According to this  recap. Francine was supposed to be a witness in a lawsuit Douglas was involved in but didn't turn up. She said she never received the summons.

I've got a vague, unreliable memory of Douglas saying he was being sued for smacking a fan who'd grabbed Francine, I might well be getting confused with the XPW Heat Wave incident though.

20 minutes ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

Hermes having your parcel out for delivery, then changing their mind and not bothering to actually deliver it.

Even worse when they mark it down as "attempted delivery" even when you've been in the house all fucking day.

The worst is when they say it's been delivered and just nick it.

5 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Clearly you're a Tory voter. But this isn't fucking football, you don't support "your team" no matter what - you should be able to judge each decision and policy on its individual merit. I should be able to do that too, and I fucking wish the Tories had were responsible for something I could actually get behind to prove my point. In the absence of that, I'll give them this - it was nice of Johnson to get a rescue dog. 

Quoted because that's something that does my head in about British Politics now. I'm in an argument with a Starmer supporter on Twitter right now, just because I said his suspension of Corbyn was a bit shit, No other criticism. Just that one decision and it really is like arguing about football. Just blind loyalty and lots of "what-about-ery."

Cummings was the worst example though. I can get MPs defending him, because they were clearly following orders, but the average cunt online arguing technicalities was just fucking mental. At some point, bots were claiming that his son was autistic and people just jumped on it as a defense, without even bothering to check if it was true or not. That's disgusting behaviour. I'd imagine a lot of those same cunts are now ripping him apart since he's turned on the Tories.

Anyway, I'd have done a better job than Matt Hancock and I'm thick as fuck. Pretty sure an intelligent, educated man like Keir Starmer would've been fine.

16 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Bit disturbing that the screen grab from security footage has The Sun watermarked all over it. Without going all Duane it’s as if the top brass wanted him gone but that would be admitting they fucked up the pandemic and Cummings was right, so they asked uncle Rupe for help. 

It has to be this doesn't it? I mean, it's not like he's been photographed on the beach or whatever. It's the CCTV footage from his office. That's a really serious breach, regardless of what it shows. You'd have to have a LOT of balls to take that to The Sun, unless you've got some assurances that you'll be protected. Same goes for the Sun themselves actually.

The other thing is the tone of the reporting. It's immediately gone into "Hancock MUST resign" mode, as if this is the worst thing he's done, and as if other Tories, including Johnson haven't done similar in the past.

5 hours ago, Hoptimus said:

So it would mean a bit of disruption at live events. Maybe having chants at abusers during matches to draw attention to the talent for their actions that the family show audience will not be aware of. 

That won't help at all. You'll still be supporting them financially, it'll probably look like part of the show to the rest of the audience and, if you are too disruptive, they can just kick you out. Might even get a kicking as well.

I'll treat it the same as any other boycott. I'm aware that I'm unlikely to effect real change but at least I'm not giving the cunts any money.

1 hour ago, gmoney said:

I'm not quite so sure. Watching ECW back recently it became clear to me just how much he relied on establishing himself against people who weren't in the company like Flair etc. I don't think they'd let him do that in the WWF. Also he's believable as a franchise player in ECW because he had a reasonable shout at being the best 'wrestler' in the company,  he couldn't really hold a candle to Bret, Shawn, Austin, Owen, even Davey.

Yep.

It's easy to say "If they let him be 'The Franchise', he'd have got over" because it's one of those gimmicks that requires a big push and being protected. That was one thing in ECW but the WWF had far better options in '97. Why hire Douglas, portray him as the best wrestler in the world, and let him be controversial on the microphone when you could just do that with one of the guys already on the roster? It was the same in WCW (to take this back on topic) they let him CALL himself the Franchise and do the gimmick without the push, and it died on it's arse.

That's the thing with Douglas. He really had fuck all else. He can moan about Dean Douglas being shit but it's not like he was blowing anybody away with his in-ring performances. Most people had shit gimmicks back then and still had at least some memorable matches. Douglas though? Aside from the one where he lost the IC Title, nope.

Regarding the discussion of WCW's fake barbed wire on the last page: Anybody remember when they gave Duggan a rubber 2 x 4? It was so bad that he couldn't even lift the thing without it bending. I'm sure David Flair was using a rubber crowbar at one point as well.

The first time I saw Kingston was when he was CZW's mystery partner in their War Games match with ROH. I thought he was shit. Just a fat backyarder badly copying moves he'd seen on All Japan tapes or something. I saw bits of him in Chikara after that, where he was okay, but a bad fit for that promotion.

Never thought he'd amount to anything. I certainly never thought he'd ever be one of my favourite wrestlers.

The guy really is just amazing. His ability to adapt and make whatever he's doing feel real is incredible. Whether he's heel or babyface. A manager, singles or part of a tag team, you can put him anywhere on the card, in any role, and he'll make it work. Just give him a microphone.

23 hours ago, Abe_Knuckleball_Schwartz said:

True, I have also been watching ECW from the beginning on the Network (also by coincidence currently into September 1999) and was amazed by how good Shane Douglas looked (shape wise) in 1997/98 then suffered the elbow injury and was pretty much downhill from there.

Douglas has always fascinated me, I do think he could have been a big star but for some reason never really just worked whenever he left ECW, whether that was due to the other promotions not using him properly or him (or possibly a combination of both) I do not know.

Surely a key factor is that he was Shane Douglas?

He wasn't as bad as some people make out, but also nowhere near as good as he presented himself as. Wrestlers are pretty sensitive creatures too. If you try and make your name by tearing down the biggest stars in the industry then you can't really be surprised if they jump on the chance to make you look like a cunt. He seemed to take himself super serious too, which was just asking for trouble with the Kliq in those days. 

Plus he suffered from the same thing a lot of ex-ECW guys did. He was protected by Heyman's booking to a level that other promotions wouldn't (or couldn't) match. Taz was another one, but he quickly accepted it and played the game. Douglas just seemed to spit the dummy and blame everybody else. Like he'll complain about politics but then openly admit that he was threatening to stretch Michaels legitimately when he got him in the ring. Maybe not the most smartest move politically is it?

Aw. I love Don West. 

I remember once, when I hated TNA, I saw a video of Don selling grab bags of DVDs and thinking "Fuck. That seems like a great deal!" even though I probably wouldn't have watched them. He was just that good of a salesman. I don't know how true it is but Bischoff said recently that there was a point that TNA were doing better on merchandise at house shows than WWE solely because of Don West's ability to generate sales.

I enjoyed his commentary too. He was enthusiastic without being overbearing and he was a refreshing change from the typical smart arse heel colour commentator.

Miro is the fucking man. He looks like an absolute superstar at the moment. As ropey as some of his booking was, I'm so glad that brought him in they way that they did, which gave him a chance to establish who Miro is, rather than Rusev.

This is just the beginning too. He still hasn't wrestled any of the big guns. I can see AEW making some proper money from him in the future.

36 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Isn’t it only the second? I don’t mind it at all. It makes sense from a storyline standpoint of course, but in reality I’m sure it means a lot to them all too. It’s still only six months since Brodie’s death, so for me it’s still logical and appropriate for him to be a point of reference.

Agreed. Especially when it's for the TNT Title, which is the Dark Order's only title so far and is something that is closely associated with Brodie's memory. It would've been more jarring if they hadn't brought him up.

40 minutes ago, Sheffbag said:

That was Jesse Neal who went public about it but i think it was Zbyszko who once said quite a few of the roster was on stamps

Apparently Neal qualified for them but never actually took them. He just borrowed off people instead.

The most shocking thing for me is how TNA handled injuries. Jesse Sorenson's Mum went bankrupt because TNA refused to pay any of his medical bills after he broke his neck. Daffney had to sue to get them to cover her bills, after she got injured doing a barbed wire-table spot that they talked her into, and didn't even capture on camera.

I'm sure R-Truth quit because they only agreed to LOAN him money when he was injured as well.

19 minutes ago, Your Fight Site said:

Is this a recent phenomenon though? You always hear old-timers moaning about how “back in the day” they’d spend more money on gas than they’d get paid for the show they were driving to, even though they were doing TV.

True. It's a different world now though. You can't simultaneously promote yourself as a legitimate global media company and then become an old school carney when it comes time to pay people. I mean, you can obviously, it's just marginally more scummy than when the likes of Jarrett used to do it.

It's self defeating too. As someone else said, promoters should want their talent to come across as larger than life superstars. Bit hard to do that when you know that they aren't good enough to make a full time living.

13 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I wonder if, given that he's a smaller guy, especially by the standards of the WWF at the time, the plan would have been more to use Daniels as a manager? Paul Bearer couldn't really bump any more, whereas having a manager who can take a beating when needed is always more useful. Though I doubt Russo would have put any more thought into long-term than I just did.

Yeah. That could've worked. He'd even have done well as cannon fodder that the big lads could really throw about in brawls.

The Higher Power was clearly meant to be the leader though (and was, as it turned out). Undertaker talked about "serving" him, and said that he was the one ultimately responsible for everything that had happened to the McMahons and Steve Austin. That kind of build needed a really good pay off - I actually thought Vince was a bit of a let down - and a new Manager just wouldn't have cut it.

But, ultimately, you're right. It's just another example of Russo not really knowing how to tell a story.

Christopher Daniels as the "Higher Power" behind the Corporate Ministry in 1999 is one of those ideas that's so utterly stupid that I thought it was bollocks until I heard it confirmed on somebody's podcast (Prichard's probably?). It really was Russo's plan.

I mean, I love Daniels but putting him in THAT spot would've been fucking ridiculous. It's tough to imagine him even having a competitive match with the Undertaker or Triple H in 1999, much less being their boss and, effectively, being the top heel in the industry.