unfitfinlay

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Not really. He's exactly the kind of person Vince loves.

Really? I get that Vince might love his size and look but I can't imagine the guy who famously thinks sneezing is a sign of weakness would have much respect for a guy whose debut was scrapped because he froze. I mean, I've got sympathy for Sullivan having mental issues but Vince just doesn't the seem the most understanding of bosses in that regard. Plus, long term, are they ever going to trust him with a major storyline ever again? I know Prichard's said loads of times on his podcast that personal issues stopped a lot of guys getting pushed, because they didn't know if they'd be able to rely on them.

Plus he caused them embarrassment over the horrible comments online and the gay porn videos while barely performing in the ring. I'm just genuinely surprised that they've kept him on while so many others, who were far more valuable really, have gone.

Talking about Lars Sullivan in the AEW thread and it made me wonder how the fuck he's still employed?

His main roster call up has been a total disaster. He had a breakdown before his debut, which forced them to scrap his feud with Cena. He got outed both for making horrible comments online AND starring in gay porn videos and he's been out for over a year with an injury.

Considering how many people they've gotten rid of lately it seems insane that they've kept him.

17 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

It's hard to judge if we're going by social media at the moment, it's a bigger pile of shit than usual. The comments on anything to do with race are filled with stupidity and hatred at the moment and there is loads of it in anything to do with equality too. On this specifically, you have to factor in the morons who are wedded to either WWE or AEW and will base their opinion on whether it's for or against "their" company.

I'm sure there's an element of going easy on him because he's not someone we all hate. If it was Dolph Ziggler, I reckon we might have the noose ready.

That's true. The guy who @'d me seemed to think I was a WWE Fan Boy and accused me of me being a hypocrite because Brock Lesnar showed Terri Runnels his cock or something. It's easy to forget just how fucking ridiculous wrestling fans can be sometimes. 

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

Sullivan's comments were homophobic in nature weren't they? Both his and Sammy's comments are fucking awful but I think there's a fairly big difference between the two and homophobia is something entirely different from an idiotic completely tasteless rape joke. Especially as rape "jokes" were sadly all the rage with young internet edgelords a few years back.

Homophobic and racist, and aimed at people in WWE I think.

It might not be the best comparison, granted. It was just the first example I could think of where someone has been called out for horrible remarks and nobody really gave a shit about how long ago it was or whether he was joking or not. A more recent example would be the guy that got pulled from Dark for dodgy tweets from years before. Nobody cared.

I like Sammy, for the record, and hope this doesn't hurt his career. It's the "everybody needs to accept his apology and move on because I like when he sings along to Judas!!!" shit that I dislike. You can't just order people to like him. If they think he's a creepy cunt, then it's up to him to change their minds.

5 hours ago, FelatioLips said:

I don't think Sammy's got off lightly to be honest. What he said was utterly deplorable, but (on record) he's said it once, 4 years ago before AEW even existed and as soon as it's came to light he's given probably the most genuine sounding apology of this entire ordeal, spoken directly to the person he said it about who accepted his apology and then posted herself saying they had spoken about it, and then he got suspended without pay almost immediately. 
Fair enough if he was going round saying this sort of thing all the time, or god forbid he ever acted on it or anything similar, then sack him, arrest him and all that. 

I didn't mean his punishment from AEW, which seems fair, but a lot of fans seem really really desperate that everybody forgives him and moves on. Some are even acting like he's the victim. I'm reading Big Swole getting shit on Twitter right now just for saying "Sammy was wrong. Period". Total strangers flat out telling her that she's being unreasonable. Christ, some weirdo is even @ing me just for LIKING tweets from people who are still upset about it.

I just don't think that would be happening if he wasn't so talented. I mean, was anyone using the "He was young and it was years ago!" defense when Lars Sullivan got outed for making horrible comments on that bodybuilding message board?

2 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said:

I can’t help but feel that had this been someone lower on the roster, let’s say that guy who plays The Librarian for arguments sake, then he’d have already been sent packing which is also probably what would’ve happened had any of us said such a thing at our jobs. Being involved with Jericho, who will have probably gone to bat for him, could’ve saved Sammy his job on this occasion.

Having said that, AEW have said they will reasses once he’s completed this sensitivity training, so I imagine he’ll come back on the proviso that if he gets in any other trouble then he’s gone.

Clearly AEW had to do something, but this isn’t Frasier Crane asking a woman if they’re turned on during a heated, sexual tension heavy argument, Sammy said “when I was at WWE the other week, I wanted to just go fucking rape that woman”. They say context is key, but in any real world job you’re out on your arse after saying that in any context.

Agreed. I like Sammy but I can't help but think he's getting off light reaction-wise just because he's entertaining. I've seen way too many people playing it down, going "Right. Move on" and acting like he's been treated unfairly. I saw one guy going "If I was a wrestler I wouldn't pay any attention to women wrestlers or valets now. It just isn't worth it" as if the outrage was because he'd complimented her hair or something.

It was a horrible comment that normalised sexual assault and sexism within the wrestling industry. I'm glad AEW took action against him.

38 minutes ago, tony1234 said:

Any two bob promoter can put on a show or set up a training school, how many promoters now try and run without adequate insurance for one ? Football had the FA and they did fuck all about the likes of Bennell for years so wrestling hasn't a chance of being regulated.

The only thing that should happen is that there are proper laws and criminal charges brought upon any abusers , if you don't nothing will change 

I disagree. I think that's ignoring the root of the problem, which is the business itself. Wrestling is always going to attract vulnerable people, particularly kids, and as a result, it's also going to attract people looking to exploit and abuse them. Especially since there is shit like "hazing", "respecting the veterans", "protecting the business" and "It's just wrestling" for them to hide behind.

If nothing fundamental changes then all that'll happen is that the abusers will be more secretive, insular, and pick their targets more carefully. That poor girl who trained at FWA only accepted being groped by grown men because so many of them did it that it became normal. If a dodgy Promoter/Trainer only ever books his equally dodgy mates then how do you stop stuff like that?

That's not even getting into the stuff that, while horrible, isn't technically illegal.

As unlikely as it sounds, I think the only way to really change things is if the Government steps in and actually regulates things. They really need to. Is there any other "industry" in the country where someone can hire a hall, stick up a few flyers and immediately be trusted with access to children?

35 minutes ago, boyfriend said:

I still think he was way off. Particularly his timing. Mid match would be passable but not as she's making her entrance. It's a brand new character to the national TV audience many of whom don't watch dark (me included, no surprise). Side note I love how they plug Dark results on the ticker tape.

So JR was reacting as if he was seeing her for the first time just like we the fans were and creating this sense of amazement and WTF, trying to create a moment or feeling. But that was immediately ruined by Excalibur trying to dehumanise her by talking about records so soon, at least let him finish before he then talks about how creepy she is, how she's even scarier than before etc etc.

He wasn't though was he? He was trying to point out that, in her debut, she nearly beat the World Champion. How on earth does that hurt her at all? Or make her feel less impressive? The only thing that made it awkward was J.R cutting him off and laughing, which obviously threw Excalibur off. If he really had a problem with the timing, why not work through it like any other "botch" and then talk about it after the show? Or even during the advert break. I mean, it's fairly likely that Excalibur's been told to say things like that after the "Butcher and The Blade!!" thing.

It's been said before but the three man booth isn't working and, of the three, I'd get rid of JR. He's a far better commentator than Excalibur, when he cares, but it's obvious that he doesn't want to be there at the moment. Excalibur is going to learn a lot more from Tony Schiavone without sad sack Ross weighing them down.

That aside, that was my favourite segment of the show. Anna Jay losing - after the video package for her - and then leaving with the Dark Order, was a really interesting twist and got everybody involved over. Not something I've ever thought about a segment involving the Dark Order before.

Just now, poetofthedeed said:

Which you do during the match, you sell the fact that this person creeped you out so much that you can't focus...... 

Would Vince mcmahons infamous "that's gotta be kane" have worked as well if JR had been interrupting about how he looked good in competition on live events and did it while rocking a snazzy Cape.... 

They weren't broadcasting Live Events though were they? And they certainly weren't pushing them the way that AEW pushes Dark.

Did you like Excalibur's infamous "That's Butcher and The Blade! That's Butcher and the Blade!" call? that he got slated for, because that's basically what he's getting criticised for NOT doing here.

1 hour ago, boyfriend said:

I was just coming on to the say the EXACT same thing!

JR was 100% in the right. Nobody gives a toss if she took the Japanese school girl to the limit (I sound like Corny now) or what happened on dark. This was her main TV debut to a national audience. It's key character building time. Getting across how terrifying she is, reacting IN THE MOMENT, by gawd who is this, what is this. That's exactly what needed to be done to sell the shock and awe to everyone. Not oh she wrestled on dark and I'll think you find blah, blah blah.

And then people would, quite rightly, criticise them for not being prepared, not knowing the product and burying Dark by flat out ignoring it's existence. They DO want people to watch it don't they? Otherwise what's the point in doing it?

18 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

If you don't have a problem with a man in his 30's trying it on with one of his 16 year old trainees, then you need to re-evaluate your own morals here. 'Legal' or not, it's disgusting behaviour and massive breach of trust. Would you be thinking the same way if it were your daughter or son being advanced upon by their trainer who's double their age?

Absolutely this. It might not be as severe as the other allegations but it's still really predatory behaviour. The nature of their relationship, as well as the age difference, is going to make it much much harder for the girl to say no. Which is the point, I suppose.

1 minute ago, tiger_rick said:

What's the Alex Shane one a few people have mentioned? I can't find it.

1 minute ago, Chris B said:

Since you seem to understand this, is there any chance you could give a simple explanation of what WWE are being accused of doing? Is it that the Saudi stuff is central to it, or an intrinsic part of it?

My rough understanding is that they're painting a falsely pretty picture of how things are going, so that they can run stock prices up and sell. So I'm figuring pretending things weren't going badly with SA was effectively misleading stockholders?

I'm only part way through the document now but that's only part of the allegations. Basically they are accused of lying about their business dealings in the Middle East (and North Africa) to mislead investors. They delayed informing investors that they'd lost a lucrative TV deal there and actually said they were in negotiations to renew it. When they finally had to announce it, they claimed that they'd been negotiating with the Saudi's for a new deal and that they already "had an agreement in principle" when in actually they were miles apart. The "hostage" situation is just cited as evidence that the WWE's relationship with the Saudi's was actually deteriorating at the time.

I haven't gotten through it all but there's a lot of other dodgy stuff they are accusing them of, including claiming that attendance in the US was increasing (on a chart that clearly shows that it wasn't) and them including people who got the Network for free as part of their TV package in their figures for "Network subscribers".

13 hours ago, Carbomb said:

What would be the material impact if the lawsuit was successful? 

Massive.

I don't know why everybody is focusing on the "wrestlers being held hostage" part when WWE is being accused of stock market manipulation AND insider trading. The U.S doesn't fuck about with that stuff. It's why WWE couldn't fully commit to angles like "Trump has bought RAW" and "Vince is dead" because, even though everybody knew it was a work, it could still have been seen as manipulating the price of their stock.

Regardless of the monetary damage, if these allegations are proven then there will definitely be a criminal trial and they'll be very lucky if everybody avoids prison, including Vince himself. They specifically accuse him of insider trading in there and, if the numbers cited in there are true, he's going to be hard pressed to deny it. Pretending to be in negotiations for a TV deal when you aren't is bad enough but selling millions of dollars worth of stock RIGHT before you have to come clean....?

Bet Trump'd pardon him though.

On 6/12/2020 at 9:27 AM, BomberPat said:

It should also be pointed out that, as far as I can tell, there were no calls within the BLM movement for Netflix to do anything. They took action themselves, and it's been conflated to "PC snowflakes demand classic telly be banned" through no fault of their own. Profoundly depressing stuff.

Isn't that what usually happens? Like Subway make the financial decision to start using Turkey Bacon in some locations, in order to appeal to more customers, and it gets turned into "Muslims force Subway to ban Bacon!!!!!!"

The most depressing thing about this - aside from the people who've been murdered obviously - is that it's really exposed how thick some people are, including a few of my closest friends. I've lost count about the amount of times I've seen "WHAT ABOUT WHITE CHICKS EH? SHOULD WE BAN THAT?!!!!!" over the last few days,  as if it's an untouchable cinematic classic that the world couldn't possibly live without.

Even this morning, one my best mates was using the fact that there's been some online threats towards a statue of John Knox as "clear evidence" that BLM is a globalist conspiracy theory to get rid of Trump and "put the brakes on" Brexit. As if we hadn't already left the EU and as if Trump hasn't played a massive part in the protests blowing up as much as they have. He, and a few others, also seem to have this notion that the reason that there's loads of footage of Police brutality towards protesters, and very little in return, is because "it fits the narrative". It's basically arguing that the lack of evidence to support their viewpoint is evidence in itself. Which is fucking stupid obviously.

19 hours ago, Factotum said:

Having read Bret's book recently, it got me thinking about his WCW run. Its really mad that they didn't do a Hart Foundation V NWO shot given that Davey and Jim both came in as well. I'm assuming they would have added the Canadian guys in there with them like Benoit. Would have had some interesting match-ups and lead to the Hart/Hogan match everyone wanted.

Man WCW was shit at things.

It sounds good on paper but Neidhart and Bulldog were out of their faces for that entire WCW run. There was no way that they were trusting them with any kind of high profile storyline. Not when they had such a loaded roster. I think Bischoff's actually said on 83 Weeks that he thought Davey Boy and Neidhart would've dragged Bret down rather than the other way around.

The way they used Bret was a fucking mess though.

Rey Mysterio.

I think it comes down to him seeming like a nice, if not overly sensitive guy, who likes making people happy, which my brain somehow translates as "Dickhead".

Says more about me than him really.

It was an amazing level of self-awareness as well from WWE really. It's one thing to go "This isn't working" and another to go "Hey we've totally buried these guys, humiliated them and made them look like total jokes. Logically they should be really angry at us". It's even more incredible that they had them go from those total jokes to beating the fuck out of everybody. How often does that happen in wrestling? You read loads of stories about guys going "I'm not selling for him. He's not on my level" and there's two of the top guys in the industry giving a bunch of "rookies" everything.

I always thought Punk's involvement was really under-rated actually. I get that there was a fan vote for Cena's opponent, and they probably planned things thinking Mysterio would win, but the sight of Punk rolling into the ring to try and help Cena really added to it. It was so out of character for him that it made it feel real.

Shows how much they fucked it that "The New Nexus" eventually became Punk's lackeys and then just fizzled out when he outgrew them.

I remember there being a few "hilarious" stories in Jericho's books that made me think he was a bit of a tosser. One night he couldn't find a hotel room but begged a staff member to let him sleep in a conference room, promising that he'd get up before her boss comes in. Morning comes, the woman asks Jericho to get up and he just refuses, goes back to sleep and gets up hours later, interrupting the guests who were having breakfast. He tells it like it's funniest story in the world, as if he hadn't even considered how much trouble that woman might've got in because she tried to help him.

There's another one about his mates winding him up that one of them had gotten a part in a big movie and him having an absolute jealous meltdown about it. He acknowledges that he was being an arse, in fairness, but still didn't seem aware of how pathetic his reaction was. I mean, why the fuck would you share a story that was basically "I couldn't stand the idea that one of my friends could be more successful than me!!"?

Hogan still wins the dickhead stakes though for me though. By a hefty margin as well. I mean, remember when he blamed John Graziano for his own injuries? Saying he must've done some bad shit for God to punish him like that? Fucking brutal.

Where would Sting have fit in the WWF at that point? It was the Shawn Michaels show and there's no way he was jumping to be anything less than the top babyface. It's by far the WWF's most awkward year creatively as well. Even if they did want to get behind him, there's no guarantees that it would work.

I think the more interesting thing is how different WCW would've been without Sting. Losing him in 1995 would've meant Luger wouldn't have come back in, which would've hurt the initial buzz Nitro had. Sting was the original plan to be the "Third Man" in the NWO as well and, without that build up, Hogan might not have turned heel. I don't know who else you could've put in that spot that wouldn't have come off as a bit shit. Fuck knows who goes against them in that scenario either. They definitely weren't lasting long if Hogan's on the babyface side.

It would've been a totally different company really.

"Aye. I want a real man. No one that's going to kick my door in and nick my stereo because he wants *attention*"

And.

"My Grandson said 'God's real eh Gran?' I said 'Is he fuck!"

31 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

Is it untrue?? I don't Jericho watch. 

I don't particularly follow Fozzy but I know non-wrestling fans who listen to them, which is enough to give them credibility in my eyes. Judas is a good album as well.

I'd say it's a stupid statement anyway though, since it implies that Jericho NEEDS to do anything. He's not pouring over Fozzy's album sales going "Shit. I'm going to have to get back in the ring". He can afford to do whatever the fuck he likes.

They are straight into the denial already. Focusing entirely on "The Police said he did nothing wrong driving to Durham" and ignoring the part where they said he DID break the law going to the Castle. It's all a PR exercise to them. They just don't give a fuck.

7 hours ago, Factotum said:

XPW screams out as one they should do. Involves a helluva lot.

Sunny must be one they will look at, but fuck me 10 seconds of her is annoying as shit

XPW is a surprisingly good shout, when I think about it. A wrestling company whose business model was to legitimise and increase sales of extreme porn is pretty fucking dark. I'm sure at least one wrestler has said that they offered to pay him with sex instead of cash as well. Then there's the whole Messiah incident, the ECW fight, the bizarre attempt to move to Philadelphia and the prison time.

I actually hope that they leave Sunny alone. It feels a bit cruel to do a documentary about how she USED to be one of the most beautiful women in the world and how shitty her life is now. She'd take part as well, which is even sadder.

The arrogance really is incredible.

He's admitted all the allegations against him, including the ones that the Government has denied - which means that THEY lied -  Yet he's still insisting he did nothing wrong and MPs are still fucking defending him. You just know that the Tweets saying "That was a reasonable explanation" and "We need to move on" were pre-prepared and would've been tweeted even if he'd just said "I don't answer to you fucking plebs. Fuck you". Which, honestly, would've been far less insulting than "I drove 30 miles to test my eyesight" and "Why would I bother some neighbour when my niece has offered?" - because she's 260 miles away and it's illegal to travel you absolute dickhead!!

I can't believe he had the balls to attack the media for covering the story as well. "It's not my fault that my behaviour sets a bad example! It's yours for telling people about it!" Just unbelievable arrogance.

28 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said:

They're doing it in 15 minute bursts.

The calls for Cummings to fuck off leading to the support of Johnson, means now the calls should firmly be for the floppy haired cunt to do one as well.

Absolutely. It's gone well beyond just Cummings now. I don't see how Johnson, Hancock and Suella Braverman, in particular, can credibly do their jobs after this. Why should I obey restrictions when the Prime Minister, the Health Secretary and the Attorney General have all effectively said it's optional? In fact why should I obey any laws at all?

There's not much that can make me angry but I'm genuinely seething with rage over this. It's the sheer fucking arrogance more than anything else. If he'd held his hands up and said "I panicked. I'm sorry", paid a token fine and Johnson had said something vague like "We've both agreed that it would be best for Dominic to step back for the time being" then it would've blown over. Instead they are insisting that he did nothing wrong because they think we are all fucking morons.

They've got bots on Twitter claiming that his kid is autistic and that's why they HAD to take him 260 miles from his home and normal routine. It might be true but they've also said that they didn't actually need any help with childcare so it's not even relevant.

30 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Isn’t it the case that anyone released on a 90-day non-compete can opt out and show up somewhere else, but they forfeit the chance to sit on their arse and play PS4 for three months whilst still getting paid?

Unfortunately not. It's a notice period. They are still under contract for the 90 days, same as normal. WWE just chooses not to use them. Contractually, Rusev is just as possible as Roman Reigns. Obviously they implement it differently to when Bagwell and Raven got the option in the early 2000s.

It still might happen of course. If there was ever a time that WWE is going to be flexible about things it's now. After all, it's not like the released talent can work Indies, Japan or Mexico like normal. It wouldn't shock me if WWE just tells them to take the money if they can get it.

2 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Its a difficult one because they've already got a lot of talent on their roster and I'd argue some of those haven't had the time to develop. As much as I'd love to see some of the guys mentioned get a shot, I don't want them to keep bringing too many ex WWE guys at the expense of others who need a chance to shine,

That's the key part for me.

For all the ex-WWE talent that they've brought in, they've mainly used them to work with,and put over their own guys. Jericho alone has done a superb job elevating everybody from the Inner Circle to Suge D. Even Brodie Lee, whose gimmick really isn't working, has only taken the role of Evil Uno and Stu Grayson, who weren't over anyway. He's still giving Silver, Reynolds and now 10 a reason to be on the shows.

As long as they keep using guys like that then I'm not really fussed about who they bring in.

Just now, CavemanLynn said:

I'd be happy if Revival came in and got immediately squashed by the Lucha Bros. Hell, even Best Friends. Bring them in, beat them to send the message that AEW is a different animal, and send them on their way.

A perverse part of me thinks it'd be hilarious if they put the Revival in the Dark Order just so Mr Brodie can do nothing with them.

They won't though, obviously.