David

15 hours ago, NeverYield said:

That's where my first comment comes in. Jake probably has good basics for what he is,a late comer who is learning on the job, but that's as far as it goes, and to be fair to him that's all you can expect. But to someone who has boxed as a youth and done a bit before turning over, it's worlds apart. Again, that's to be expected though

There are many other factors involved as well, though. I'm sure Tyron Woodley even remarked that he felt a bit of pressure when facing Paul and thought the fight week was pretty full-on, which is coming from a former UFC Champion who should be more used to the spotlight than most.

You could pluck a kid from York Hall who's a few fights deep into his career, but the occasion would be a factor. All that attention, fighting in the US, the media, the press conferences, the profile of facing Jake Paul. 

There would be a lot of factors, including the one you mentioned above. 

I'm sure I heard Jake say in an interview as well that when he got into the game, he really didn't have the luxury of doing what most fighters at his level do. He wouldn't have the anonymity afforded most of them. He was already a well-known public figure in the US, and even his first fight would always be a big occasion, so he could either embrace it and find a way to make it work, or let it deter him. 

Basically, the two brothers are anomalies in the sport. But, as I said above, I think they'll be remembered more for changing how the game works than their actual in-ring accomplishments. Boxing needed something like them to push it forward. For a while, the UFC was absolutely rinsing boxing, and the so-called YouTube fights have helped shift some of the attention back onto boxing, like it or not. 

It's now down to boxing what they do with the attention.

5 minutes ago, NeverYield said:

Coming back to Teddy Atlas though, just because he says Jake Paul has good fundamentals doesn't make it true for me, time and again we have seen boxing trainers not reading the room in title fights, and getting tactics totally wrong and being all lost at sea without a plan B. Even on this forum recently Tunde was discussed regarding his charge Anthony Yarde. I'm a 'random guy on a wrestling forum', as we all are, but Tunde is a licensed BBBoC trainer who cannot get the best out of his man at all. Random guys in their living room play armchair managers every Saturday regarding the Premier League, that's the nature of sport, its a spectator thing and people debate and say they would have done this and that. 

Sure, boxing trainers can get it wrong. And they have done so in the past, just like you mentioned. But to claim that Teddy Atlas isn't capable of spotting the basics in a fighter? That's a bit of a stretch. An amateur-level coach can do that, so someone like Atlas should be able to do it.

I'm not sitting here saying that Jake Paul is a championship contender. He's not. He likely never will be. He's gotten into the game far too late for that. I don't think he'll ever crack the top ten. Or even the top twenty.

But, to say his fundamentals are terrible is simply sour grapes from a "traditional" boxing fan. And to say that someone capable of making money elsewhere and who is already a millionaire many times over is in boxing "just for the money" seems incredibly short-sighted. He doesn't need the money. He could have done WWE like his brother and made money there.

How many guys at the lower end of boxing would drag their backsides off their expensive couches in their mansions to go to a boxing gym and work out if they already had multi-millions of dollars in the bank? And a thriving entertainment business already? You'd be surprised how many of them simply wouldn't be up for it.

But there's Jake Paul, going into the gym on the reg and taking a beating, all when he doesn't really have to. 

If that's not a love for the game, I don't know what is.

1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said:

That’s what made it even funnier for me, the way these manly men complaining about their manly man beer being sissyfied when it’s fucking Bud Light!

Even the manly men need to watch their figures, Keith.

46 minutes ago, NeverYield said:

To suggest that Jake Paul and YouTubers are in it for a legitimate sporting sense, and not for money is ludicrous. 

Actually, there's probably a better chance that Jake Paul is in it for the love of the sport. He doesn't need the money, making $20 million annually from his YouTube channel alone.

So yeah, I'd say he has a far greater love for the sport to be doing it when he doesn't have to. Whereas other "proper boxers" do it to get famous and make money.

Jake Paul already has all of that without being punched in the face. He's doing it because he wants to, not because he needs to. He'd have been just fine financially if he'd never stepped foot inside a boxing ring.

50 minutes ago, NeverYield said:

Yeah, basic respect for me comes from as I  mentioned he mixes in pro gyms and has a go, but fundamentally he is terrible and how you think there isn't people boxing in York Hall who couldn't tune Jake Paul up absurd.

Random guy on a wrestling forum - "Jake Paul is fundamentally terrible."

Teddy Atlas, boxing hall of famer, trainer of world champions and professional boxing analyst and expert - “He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals."

Who to believe? It's a toughie, that's for sure.

48 minutes ago, NeverYield said:

Perhaps he will decimate all in front of him, and have a clash with Jai Opetai at some stage, who would quite likely maul him without getting out of first gear, or even Mairis Breidis. The weight he knocks about fighting in is filled with some very capable operators, who I doubt very much he would go anywhere near.

He likely wouldn't beat those guys, that's true. He's only a few fights deep into his career, but let's not pretend that he wouldn't jump in there with either of them if he was offered the chance. We've seen what he's like, and he'd be right up for going in there and giving it his best shot whilst making a ton of cash.

37 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

The article also mentions the decline in sales for Bud Light, which was also boycotted by people who buy Kid Rock albums. 

To be fair, Bud Light should be boycotted by everyone of beer-drinking age. It's absolute piss water. 

Just now, SuperBacon said:

Jake Paul and Logan Paul annoy all the right people, so I'll forever root for them to be honest.

As Keith said, they're basically making heaps of cash without the traditional suits that most boxers need in their corner to get any kind of exposure. It's great.

Truth be told, in decades to come, we'll look back on them both more for how they changed the game for the fighters who are coming up now than we will for their actual boxing ability. 

9 hours ago, NeverYield said:

It's all Jake Paul's nonsense talk and insulting fans intelligence, he's in it for the money, fine, he does train somewhat hard and has made the effort to mix in pro gyms and learn.

Sorry to break it to you, but every single professional boxer who laces up gloves is in it for the money. That's the very reason they're there.

9 hours ago, NeverYield said:

If he wanted a legitimate boxing career he would do it how all fledgling pros do it, and then we would see his level and what he's got.

And how is that? By fighting schlubs who have ridiculous losing records? Go and look at the records of the guys Fury, Joshua, Hatton, Mayweather, all of them fought early in their careers.

Or is it that he used his smarts to find a way to get paid for those early fights that you don't like? Should he have fought absolute cans with lopsided records in small halls up and down the US for next to nothing? Would that have been better?

He substituted those bums that most boxers fight early in their careers for MMA fighters with recognisable names. There isn't much difference in the competition there. Paul was fighting other fighters who had similar boxing records as he did. 

10 hours ago, NeverYield said:

There's journeyman and people who have just turned over boxing at York Hall who would flatten Jake Paul.

No, there isn't. That kind of chat is yesterday's news. What sticks in the craw of "real boxing" fans is that Paul hasn't followed the traditional route of making zero money and beating absolute bums for the first ten or so fights of his career. He's had the sheer audacity to go out and put in the extra work of making a name for himself and generating a decent wedge of cash.

Jake Paul is a very good athlete. He can crack, and he has a chin. Don't sell him short. Is he going to be world-class? Most likely not, but the notion that some 0-0 chump fighting in front of eight people at York Hall would flatten him isn't true. If it were, he'd have lost already by now. He's fought guys who know how to hit, and if he was a complete fraud he'd have lost by now.

Teddy Atlas summed up Paul perfectly a few years back when he said:

“He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals. He’s allowing these to guide him as he advances and I give him credit for that. He’s raw. He’s green around the gills, no doubt. But y’know, he can punch. He can get your attention if he hits you."

"He wants to be an entertainer. That’s a big plus. I don’t think people come close to understanding the importance of that."

“I was asked what makes a good inside fighter by a reporter one time. Well, you got to keep your hands in good, offensive position. Rotate your shoulders. Don’t get tied up. Create those little six-inch spaces for a one-two punch. Move your feet backwards, create a little room when you get smothered. Have a sense about yourself, don’t lean in to catch uppercuts. But this is all a complete waste of time without the most important thing...You have to want to be an inside fighter! And that’s what I mean about Jake Paul. You gotta really want to be a fighter [to perform in front of big audiences] and he does.”

“One thing I noticed was about the second Woodley fight, Is that Paul was starting to get calm in an uncalm environment. When you’re not calm [in the ring] it’s a graffiti board of thoughts. Everything’s all over the place. When you’re calm you can see specific forms. And I recognize that he is getting to the place where he can see these forms, where he can think clearly and execute a shot."

“Everybody talks about it was a big right hand in Atlanta [that KO’ed Woodley], but that wasn’t what impressed me so much, it was the delivery system for the punch that he’d figured out would work. And that’s what struck me. With Woodley he bent down low, hit him in the body and [only] then he threw high. He knew that would make Woodley stand straight, because he thought the danger would be below, and then Paul would come above with the right hand. And he did. And nobody really talked about it."

“I’m not making more of it than should be made, Paul’s still a guy in the very, very early stages of development. And don’t fool yourself and think he’s ready for more than he’s ready for, because he’s not. But he is making progress.”

Is Teddy talking shite? 

10 hours ago, NeverYield said:

At least that Saudi fella wants to put an end to 'YouTube' boxing and doesn't want to entertain it at all, if it wasn't for that absolute mess we may not have seen Paul so much. 

Yeah, thank fuck for "that Saudi fella." I'm sure he has boxing's best interests at heart, eh? 

3 hours ago, organizedkaos said:

Yeah i've definitely noticed a common online narrative of basically "Punk's too old to be straight edge and wrestling thast much" although more so seemingly suggesting he's more likely to get injured because he's not using performance enhancers? (I guess old steroid muscles are more resiliant?)

Recovery is certainly more resilient on PEDs that's for sure. There's a reason they're called "performance enhancers" after all.

I've read countless pages of debate in this thread and more side discussions than I care to count, yet I'm none the wiser about the most pressing issue.

Who is least repugnant? Tony or Vince? WWE or AEW? To whom should I pledge my tribalistic allegiances in future pointless online debates?

Let's keep it on point lads, eh? 

32 minutes ago, Pinc said:

Speaking of size, I’d never seen a more conspicuous size differential between two wrestlers than him and McIntyre. 

Also, speaking of size, I've seen a few online comments about how out-of-shape Punk looks in comparison to the returning Randy Orton and so on. I wonder if the fact he's living this drug-free lifestyle is catching up to him now?

I'm fairly sure Orton and a few other ageing wrestlers (a flat-earther in particular) aren't pissing completely clean when you consider that they're both 43 and 46 years old, respectively. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. It's not a competitive combat sport.

But Punk looks like a 45-year-old guy who's in good shape by normal standards, and like most people of that age, he's maybe not able to get chucked around a wrestling ring as much as he was when he was younger.

How long can an all-natural athlete compete in today's WWE at his age and not get injured quite frequently? I mean, I'm not as old as he is and I'm prone to pulling a hamstring getting off the couch at night after a House of Cards binge. 

11 hours ago, Browser Brady said:

Share price is on it’s way back up.
85 .00 USD at the moment..

TKO Group Holdings Inc https://g.co/kgs/KQnYbPY

https://g.co/finance/TKO:NYSE

Splendid.

The surge arrives just a tad too tardy for a Yuletide Xbox Series S Toaster acquisition, but fear not, there's always the prospect of the forthcoming year. Undoubtedly, the cleaner shall maintain a vigilant eye over this discourse with profound interest.

8 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Didn't Plastic Caesar threaten to strip him of the belt for inaction or something? Sterling is probably the most fucked-over champ in history. He should've told White to fuck off, but maybe he didn't feel he had an option with that cunt breathing down his neck.

There was talk of an interim title for O'Malley if he beat whoever they would have put in front of him on that date instead, but Sterling should have let them do that. At the end of the day, he was the champ. He should be able to say no to a three month turnaround in title defences. 

I bet if O'Malley goes through five rounds against Chito he wouldn't then agree to face Merab in three months.

Who are you expecting him to fight? He's basically a 1-1 novice?

AJ fought someone called Konstantin Airich in his 8th pro fight, who was 21-11 at the time. 

Mateusz Masternak, ranked 10th in the cruiserweight division, fought a guy who has a record of 7-40 in his 8th fight.

I'm no fan of Paul, but it seems that if he fights an MMA fighter the fans are like "boooo! fight a real boxer!!" then when he fights a real boxer the fans are still like "boooo! fight...erm...well, a DIFFERENT real boxer!!"

Seeing this main event just reminds me of how fucking stupid Aljamain was for taking that O'Malley fight when he did. Barely three months removed from a five-round battle with Cejudo, and he gets pressured by the UFC to step in again? 

He has said more than once that it actually takes him over two months to get down to 135lbs, and I know people were saying, "Well, he was already there, so that should make it easier," but it doesn't. He weighed in at 135lbs, but he was up by a fair bit come fight night, and then he would have had to go from that fight with Cejudo straight into another weight-management program and a training camp.

Absolute fucking madness. 

On top of that, he must have known that this was his only run. He was absolutely never getting a rematch or another fight for that strap. Not a fucking chance.

So yeah, that pissed me off. Meanwhile, O'Malley gets to chill for six months, then call his own fight against someone who's ranked 6th or whatever, completely ignoring the top contenders because "they don't make business sense."

What the fuck does he know about what makes good business? He's another one of these fucking inbred-looking goons who think because he can throw hands that he's a businessman? 

I hope Chito sparks him good and proper. And if he doesn't, I hope he's actually forced to fight Merab. I'd love to see his narrow backside get rag-dolled all over the cage.

4 minutes ago, Factotum said:

I suppose that's for a few reasons. Firstly that Vince being a scumbag sleaze was at least known to the wider wrestling fan base. Not to this level of course, but morally I don't think anyone thought he was a good guy. Secondly due to the nature of him supposedly sharing this information with others in the organisation and carrying on with employees it brings into sharp focus the culture at WWE. Were their complaints and how were they deal with etc? And lastly, because Vince is gone. Bar a legal case, we no doubt will only hear the horrible shit he was up to. Therefore the head has been cut off, but people want to know what happens to those that aid and facilitate monsters like this.

You would expect anyone who genuinely didn't know to want a full investigation into it all. If Triple H is genuinely in the dark then he should be demanding one and fucking reading the lawsuit

Some very good points, but one question I'd ask is what people would have had someone like Triple H actually do? If he had an idea of what was going on?

1 minute ago, Loki said:

Right.  I expect his first port of call with the stiff broom will be anyone left who McMahon reinstated during his reverse coup if they haven't already been cleaned out by the merger.  My comment wasn't directed specifically at you David, just more a general bafflement at how this has turned into a "Big Jock Knew" situation.

Oh, absolutely. I've noticed that in my limited online reading, people seem to be focusing on who knew and why they didn't pipe up rather than addressing those (reportedly) directly involved.

1 minute ago, Loki said:

Has anyone in any position of knowledge made any insinuation that HHH knew about Vince's sex trafficking?  I'm still somewhat baffled about how THIS continues to be the main topic of conversation, as opposed to the repercussions for Vince himself, Laurinaitis, Lesnar, and any other people actually directly involved in the abuse.

I have no idea. I'm addressing the point made about Ari Emanuel and how he might approach it. Vince is gone anyway, so he won't have any scope over that. I imagine my post about how he'd approach the Triple H scenario would just as easily apply to anyone else still with the company.

Imagine if that was McG? We saw what he did to that pensioner who refused a drink. Imagine if that lad had the temerity to throw a triangle on him? He'd have fookin lamped the coont!

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

A journalist was murdered. It got worldwide press attention. It was great PR for his company to stop any dealings with the Saudi's at that point. 400 million for a multi billion dollar company will not be a fatal hit. I'm sure there's probably some way he could even claim it as a tax write off or something

I could be wrong, but I think you're missing the point. It's not about the fact that it was $400 million. It could have been any amount. It's the fact that he did it. 

The easiest thing for Emanuel to do would have been to keep quiet, accept the investment and continue with the original plan, which took quite some time and effort to negotiate. 

But he didn't. He went to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and returned his investment, with interest. How many people do you think have done that in the past? Or have the stones to even think about doing that? He ran the risk of upsetting one of the most powerful players on the world stage today. 

And he did that because he didn't like the fact that a journalist was murdered in an Embassy. 

As for him doing it for PR, he's since come out and said pretty plainly that he has absolutely no moral position on LIV golf being funded by Saudi, and that he hasn't really thought much about the idea of Saudi sports washing. Those views aren't great for PR. 

It wasn't a PR stance from him. 

Basically, he's a guy who has enough power that he's able to take a stand on whatever he likes. If he thinks having Triple H (I refuse to call him Paul) around isn't good for business, or if it doesn't sit right with him personally, then chances are good that Triple H will be gone.

Is that on Prime? Any provider offering boxing shows available on-demand after the event finishes will always get my vote. being able to wake up, stick on the kettle and watch an event on my telly in HD is all I ask.

Championship Round

QB: Lamar Jackson (Baltimore)

RB: Christian McCaffrey (San Francisco)

WR: Brandon Aiyuk (San Francisco)

TE: Travis Kelce (Kansas City)

K: Justin Tucker (Baltimore)

DST: Kansas City

MOST YARDS: San Francisco

MOST POINTS: San Francisco  

TOTAL NET YARDS: 1736 Yards

AFC1: Kansas City Chiefs @ Baltimore Ravens

NFC1: Detroit Lions @ San Francisco 49ers

5 hours ago, Carbomb said:

My situation is pretty much the same as @DEF's - my whole family uses Netflix, so I couldn't cancel it anyway; they wouldn't be happy. 

It's not about being able to affect WWE in any significant way, as that's something I've long accepted; it's more that I just don't want to give them my money. It's one of the few things in this world I have a modicum of control over.

I noticed that Netflix now have ratings systems, so, if I can't deny WWE my money, I can at least give them a thumbs down.

Sadly, at this point, what you're talking about doing is the equivalent of trying to empty the Thames with a small bucket. It'll make no real difference in the grand scheme of things.

For WWE (and Netflix) to be affected, they'd need to see virtually no bump in subscriptions when the WWE content is added, and they'd need to see far fewer people than they imagined watching Raw every week.

Which is very unlikely to happen.

You can simply not watch any of the WWE content personally, and you can then rest easier, but I don't think denying WWE your money is going to matter. The bottom line is, I wouldn't stress too much about it.

19 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I was pissed when I signed up (during a TWCF downtime) and couldn’t spell Steve Ogrizovic. 

Or Gary Bannister, apparently.

15 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Holly Holm vs Kayla Harrison

I fully expect Holm to win a snoozefest on points after stuffing some initial takedown attempts and then outpointing Harrison on the feet over three rounds,

On 1/7/2024 at 7:59 PM, wandshogun09 said:

It still makes me laugh that those spinning elbow finishes against jobbers like Hannah Goldy and Luana Carolina, and a friendship with Paddy, actually had people arguing they could sell out Anfield with a Paddy/Molly main and co-main.

You don't think they could? I reckon it would be possible. A Pimblett main event and Molly tucked onto the co-main slot against some no-name she can hammer into oblivion? I would wager that the local crowd would eat that shit right up. 

And not only that, they'd have the place rocking to the extent that you'd think it was McGregor in Dublin all over again.