Official ROH Discussion Thread

[air_raid]

Omega hits the What’s The Frequency Kenneth? for the pin.

 

Is that another name for Croyts Wrath (electric chair German)?

 

Kudos on the "best of ROH on HD" list, if they knocked that up as a DVD I'd totally get it, although it would nice for completionists to include the Wolves winning the tag titles.

[gadge]

Omega hits the What

Edited April 5, 2010 by gadge

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

He-he, yeah basically I think "Croyt's Wrath" is such a terrible name for the move, it doesn't mean anything to anybody, so I re-named it the "What's The Frequency Kenneth".

 

Was extremley annoyed to put the FB 09 disc in expecting Larry Sweeney on commentary and instead getting old Ernie Santino Marella or whatever his name is. Also, according to Cornette ROH is going to be about what the fans want to see...so who the fuck expressed a desire to see Pelle Primeau back?!?!?!

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Final Battle 2009

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Well, here it is, the best of ROH in 2009 (in my opinion obviously). I couldn't be bothered to rank the DVD matches, but I did highlight what I though was the match of the year in red.

 

Best of ROH 2009

 

On HDNet :

 

 

Brian Danielson vs. Tyler Black (Taped 1/3/09, Airdate 25/4/09)

American Wolves vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico

Edited April 14, 2010 by Dearly Devoted Dexter

[gadge]

Wow, that's a lot of work there, D-triple. Good stuff

 

The only thing that sticks out in my mind is that Hero vs KENTA in singles from HDNet is missing.

 

I've finally got over my Wrestlemania holiday and resulting exhaustion, and I'm out of live events to go to for awhile, having been to IPW:UK with Morishima on it, and this week's Raw in London, so I'm back on the DVD trail and hope to get through the Final Countdown Tour fairly quickly. In the mean time, here's 17 minutes of ROH promos, aka today's VideoWire...

 

http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/april-14th-videowire/

Edited April 14, 2010 by gadge

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Wow, that's a lot of work there, D-triple. Good stuff

 

Thank you kind sir!!

 

 

Re: Hero vs KENTA - Fixed - there was supposed to be 20 matches on that HDNet list and I only put 19 - eek!!

 

I think the first two 2010 shows were delivered while I was away. I've been watching some old PWG stuff the last week or so. Man that first Gueriilla Warfare match was brutal!

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Someone pointed out the other day - I think it might have been someone on 411mania - that ROH management can't be best pleased with Cornette's e-mail to Terry Taylor that he passed on to TNA, particularly as they just managed to persuade TNA to let them book the Machine Guns for the first time in nearly two years. I like Cornette, but he's becoming obsessed with Russo - it's unhealthy quite frankly! Yes the guy's a shit, but guess what - wrestling's full of them.

[gadge]

Been having internet problems, here's a review I did about ten days ago...

 

Final Countdown Tour: Dayton - 18/9/09

 

ROH returns to in-house DVD production for what I reckon must be the first time since some 2002 shows in red boxes. There's some interesting production stuff here that has gone pretty much unmentioned due to the soft, out of focus hard camera issues with this and the Chicago legs of the Final Countdown Tour, and the change to commentary being optional from this point on, so I'll cover them as we go..

 

The DVD starts with a hype video for the main event, with Chris Hero cutting a promo over it about how Bryan Danielson gave him a loss on his ROH debut, and he's going to give Danielson a loss on his way out. The video ends with the graphic of the show title, then we go into the show proper with a Briscoes promo on the Young Bucks, shot outdoors where the ROH crew show they can actually shoot footage outdoors without getting horrendous lighting issues. So far, the DVD comes across really well. Then, the conclusion of the Briscoes promo fades into a box as the in-ring side of the show starts, and the hard cam problems (and the shabbiness of the Dayton venue) kinda spoil the image. Still, props for freshness to start...

 

Eddie Edwards vs Brent Albright - A surprisingly good near fifteen minute opener, especially considering Albright's involvement. Decent chain wrestling, some good striking and a hot finishing sequence marred by the finish itself. Edwards gets to kick out of the half nelson suplex of Albright, but Brent transitions straight into the Crowbar. That leads to a Davey Richards run in as Hagadorn distracts the ref, and the superkick-German suplex combo gives Edwards the lame victory.

 

We go to a Dark City Fight Club promo after that, which suffers from a really bland setting compared to the opening promo.

 

The House of Truth (Christian Able & Josh Raymond) vs The Dark City Fight Club (Jon Davis & Kory Chavis) - They cut straight from the promo to the opening bell of this one. At twelve minutes, this is probably too long for a match with no clear fan favourites. The powerful style of the DCFC gives them that spot as the match develops against the more sneaky workings of the House of Truth. Not a bad effort from the two teams however, DCFC getting the win with the massive powerbomb/neckbreaker thingy. Chris Hero on commentary (which feels pretty forced, I miss Lenny Leonard already) calls it Project Mayhem.

 

We go to a Claudio promo pretty quickly after the three count. He was meant to be wrestling Tyler Black for the first time, but Tyler's injured so it's Claudio vs Davey Richards instead, which is pretty tasty. Davey is both tag champ and #1 contender to the World title, so Claudio is extra motivated. Cool promo.

 

Jimmy Rave vs Grizzley Redwood - I really had no desire to see another match between these two at this point. To start, it didn't seem like a match Rave wanted to be part of either, as he spends a couple of minutes punishing Grizzley in several hurty ways. At that point, the need to hype Rave vs Necro in a Dog Collar match the next night takes over. Grizzley gets a ridiculous comeback, and Rave puts a stop to it by blasting him with a chain for the DQ at 3:30. That brings out Necro for a one sided pasting of Rave all around the Montgomery County Fairgrounds for at least twice as long as the match itself. This was all very spirited, I'll give it that.

 

Claudio Castagnoli vs Davey Richards - You can count on Claudio to pull out the good stuff when he wrestles smaller guys, and Davey has certainly had much more impetus than ever before in 2009, so is it any surprise that they pull out a middle of the show cracker? Erm, nope. Minus points to the crowd, who start a duelling chant for a match between two heels before they even lock up. Plus points to Hero's commentary, which is a lot more focused in this match. Davey kicks out of the pop up European, then rolls through the Ricola Bomb into a Code Red for the popular victory after sixteen minutes. Real nice match.

 

The Briscoes vs The Young Bucks - A solid match, this, but not great. Some feeling out process early on, then the Briscoes isolate first Nick then Matt Jackson for the majority, and the crowd seem comparatively disinterested and just waiting for the production finish that doesn't really materialise. The short flurry of moves ends when More Bang For Your Buck misfires, and the Briscoes hit the doomsday device for the win in eighteen minutes.

 

Rasche Brown vs Silas Young - The worst match on the card so far. Entrances are cut, Brown dominates for a minute, Silas tries to come back by working a sleeperhold that makes Kane vs Dolph Ziggler seem exciting, then Skullcrusher hits a spear and a Burning Hammer for the pin at just over three minutes. Slap the porpoise, oh, wait...

 

Colt Cabana & Petey Williams vs Austin Aries & Rhett Titus - This is much more of a southern-style tag than the other two tag encounters in the show, and it actually gets over quite nicely. Cabana puts in a bit more of an effort than most of his Cabana-by-the-numbers bouts of 2009, that is after an early comedy moment where he plays Scott Steiner as Williams' partner, which did made me chuckle. Aries and Williams have some nice exchanges, which I guess is why they pull the trigger on an angle/match between them later in the month. Credit to Titus as well for not being the odd man out, he fits in just fine here. Aries is one of those who will take the Canadian Destroyer, which eventually happens after a few teases, then Cabana pins Titus after a Colt 45 variation in just shy of eighteen minutes. A solid semi-main.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Chris Hero - A cracking 24 minute main event. Intricate work and reversals of trademark stuff early on, then the pace picks up gradually, then they head to the striking and big impact moves. Naturally, the spotlight is on Hero's elbows, which Danielson avoids or blocks early on but then eats in increasing number and brutality as the bout builds towards a conclusion. Danielson's full range of selling and fighting spirit put over Hero's offense wonderfully. The first time Hero nails Danielson in the back of the head with an elbow made me wince. The second time, Danielson crumples in amazing fashion after a Hangman's Elbow, and Hero has a pinfall victory over Danielson in ROH at the third time of asking. Really great stuff here, and the clean, free from loaded elbow pad shenanigans finish makes Hero look fantastic.

 

Overall, this is a good start to the Final Countdown Tour from an in-ring perspective at least. We'll see how the in-house production works out in time.

 

DVD bonus features include Bryan Danielson's encore, where he comes back out to 'The Final Countdown' after the main event, a preshow tag bout with Davey Richards' trainee Kyle O'Reilly doing a basic Richards routine in teaming with Tony Kozina vs The Bravado Brothers, and a couple of VideoWires.

[TysonSL]

the 2010 Kings of Wrestling reunion should easily compensate for the Briscoe

Edited April 24, 2010 by TysonSL

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Cheers ears!!

 

It's not confirmed that Briscoes are leaving ROH, but it's fairly likely. Their contracts are up in May, and they had a couple of WWE tryouts towards the tail end of last year. They've pretty much done everything they can in ROH, so I can't see any reason why they'd stay. But I might be wrong.

 

Good review as ever gadge. I thought the Hero/ Dragon match was superior to the Dragon/ Richards match, be interested to see what you make of that. Just started watching SoCal Showdown.

[gadge]

We'll see shortly. Here comes the next review...

 

Final Countdown Tour: Chicago - 19/9/09

 

This time around, the intro video to the show shows footage from 'last night in Dayton' of Austin Aries taking a Canadian Destroyer, and Bryan Danielson getting KO'ed by Chris Hero. Who'll be in the better shape when they meet for the World Title in our main event? We'll see, won't we.

 

Petey Williams vs Rhett Titus - An X-Division style opener, with some acceptable, almost non-stop action. Hmmm. After a couple of teases, Williams wins with the Canadian Destroyer in nine minutes, as Hero and Prazak on commentary lambast him for being a one trick pony. Not a bad way to start.

 

Silas Young vs Alex Payne vs Rasche Brown vs Sal Rinauro vs Grizzly Redwood vs Kyle O'Reilly - Five jobbers in six man mayhem equals no ring entrances. Competitor number six is 'Skullcrusher' Rasche Brown, who I guess is only 'HD Ready' on the TV show. Brown throws everyone around in convincing fashion then does a big dive onto everyone. The crowd absolutely eat this up. Some teamwork takes Brown out for a couple of minutes so some other guys can get some spots in, then 'Skullcrusher' returns to the ring to pick up a popular victory at the eight minute mark. The demolition parts of this match are better than watchable, the rest is just there.

 

With Bryan Danielson's departure guaranteed to overshadow any of his involvement in their match the following week in New York, Nigel McGuinness cuts a promo here that's pretty much his ROH farewell speech. Some funny, eloquent stories preclude the usual putting over of everyone on the way out.

 

The House of Truth (Christian Able & Josh Raymond) vs Brent Albright & Bobby Dempsey - I can't say this is the long awaited return of Bobby Dempsey to DVD action, but what we get is way better than I expected. This is pretty similar to the previous night's House of Truth match, going twelve minutes or so, with them lasting well against more powerful opposition before going down to Albright's half nelson suplex.

 

Dog Collar Match: Jimmy Rave vs Necro Butcher - A big, bloody, eighteen minute battle all across the building, with Necro blading in messy fashion very early on. Nana's attempts to mess with the match then bring Grizzley Redwood to ringside for Necro, and they actually add nice little moments to the spectacle of the match. As ROH Dog Collar matches go, I have to say I don't like this as much as I did the Jacobs/Aries one in 2008, and while I remember being a big fan of Rave's previous Dog Collar match in 2005 vs CM Punk (which is played up nicely including a pre-match clip), it's been such a long time since I watched that one that I can't really compare. This is still a really strong effort however, with Rave looking really good for one of the first times since his ROH return. He doesn't do enough to get the win however, as Necro picks up a submission with a choke with the chain from a Camel Clutch position, including wrapping the chain across Rave's mouth and eyes. That looks nasty.

 

How do you follow a violent spectacle like that? How about a speech from Bret Hart? Bret keeps it short, putting over Chicago (the venue of the Wrestlemania 13 match with Steve Austin) and it's fans, and of course ROH. Then it's back to the action...

 

Dark City Fight Club vs The Young Bucks - A really good, traditional power vs speed and high flying tag affair this. DCFC try and jump the Young Bucks before the match as they lost a previous encounter on HDNet, but the Bucks unload a cool succession of spots to fight them off, then the match begins proper. DCFC (who appear to have new gear that suits them pretty well) get a good, long control period over Nick Jackson. When Matt Jackson gets the tag, the Bucks come back nicely but the match doesn't completely lose its structure. DCFC's power again seems to be getting them the edge and they go for Project Mayhem, but Nick Jackson takes out Kory Chavis as Matt Jackson counters Jon Davis with a Frankensteiner and that's a second victory for the Bucks at eleven and a half minutes. Sweet finish to a really fun match.

 

Colt Cabana vs Claudio Castagnoli - The DVD case bills this as a Grudge Match, but in reality this is the usual comedy/World of Sport match these two pull off, albeit done at least as well as they ever have. Home town hero Cabana kicks out at one after a low blow, then reveals a cup, throws that at ref Todd Sinclair and takes advantage of the distracted ref(!) to kick Claudio low followed by a folding press for three after nine minutes. Prince Nana's bad night is compounded by the Billy Goats Curse afterwards.

 

The American Wolves vs The Briscoes - This is announced as a non-title Grudge match, but then the Briscoes demand the title shot they are owed from winning the Honor Rumble on HDNet, and so (after Cary gives the go ahead) IT'S ON! This is exactly what you expect from the ROH tag division at its best, gradual build to a moderate reaction from the crowd, plenty of hard striking, then several minutes of all out action which the crowd eats up. The only thing wrong with this match, really, is the finish. Jay Briscoe kills Eddie Edwards with the Jay Driller, Richards saves, then the Briscoes dump him to the floor and nail Edwards with the (non-springboard) Doomsday Device. This time, instead of diving in for the save, Richards missile dropkicks the ref and that's a DQ at eighteen minutes or so.

 

ROH World Title: Austin Aries vs Bryan Danielson - This is probably the most epic rivalry in ROH history. There have been some minor disappointments, and some matches very similar to each other, but for the most part it's been one great match after another. My personal favourites would be the concluding section of the 2004 Survival of the Fittest, the World title match at Nowhere to Run in 2005, the Cow Palace match from their best of three series in 2007, and their PPV match in 2008. Their most recent match, on episode 30 of the HDNet show, was one final, all out athletic match. This one is ten minutes longer than that one was, at nearly 25 minutes, and uses the time well to tell the story of how this is the final encounter, and where their characters are now compared to 2004.

 

It is a slower paced match for the majority, but for the most part they are playing off their knowledge of each other, or Aries is mocking Danielson's trademark spots like the "I have 'til five" (among others). The final sequences are a fitting conclusion to the rivalry, with counters to counters to counters, including a cracking series of transitions involving the Cattle Mutilation and elbows to the head from Danielson, and Last Chancery and knee strikes from Aries, and a great spot where Aries goes for the (little used in recent times) 450 splash, only for Danielson to spin himself ninety degrees and catch Aries with the Triangle Choke. Aries, though, naturally retains the title in the end with a great combo. Several kicks to the head, an IED, a brainbuster off the middle rope, and then the Last Chancery, all in succession, sees Danielson fade out for the referee stoppage.

 

A second cracking main event for Danielson's farewell tour, probably not quite as good as the Hero match the night before, but still really good stuff. It kinda shows how much ROH has been waiting for the farewell tour, in that when put into the limelight Danielson's matches have suddenly become that extra degree better than they have been for the most of 2009.

 

DVD run time is 2 hours, 47 minutes. There's an Andy 'Right Leg' Ridge & Tony Kozina vs The Bravado Brothers bonus match, but it's not really much to speak of. The main show was excellent, I thought, especially after the three opening matches were out of the way. It'll be even nicer when the hard camera is back in focus on the Boston show I have to watch next...

Edited April 25, 2010 by gadge

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I have to say I didn't think much of the Aries/ Dragon match at FCT:C. I thought the HDNet match they had was miles better - this one just seemed to be an attempt to cram in trademark spots from all their previous matches. Aries/ Dragon has been one of those rivalries where they havn't really wrestled a program with each other; rather when ROH has been stuck with something to do with either of them they booked them against each other. I pretty much agree with that list of best matches though - it's been years since I watched it, but I remember loving the final 20 mins of SOFT 04. The 75 minute match bored the tits off me; The Best of Three series was awesome, I don't think they had a single bad match. But like I said, this match didn't really do much for me; at times I felt like I was watching an exhibition bout.

 

The two shows from last night look pretty good. I just wonder whether they might be holding off a bit too long on the first Steen/ Generico singles bout, which I'm guessing will in New York on 8/5?

[gadge]

That's only the show after next, though. In this case I'm sure good things come to those who wait...

 

As for Aries/Danielson, it's a series of matches I've possibly sometimes seen too much in. I always dug their match at Enter The Dragon in October 2006, for example, because I loved the story that was told - Aries was the guy who always pushed Danielson to the limit, which even led to Danielson's 'quitting' in 2005 when he couldn't get the job done in that match at Nowhere to Run. Having just won the ROH title at the time of the Enter The Dragon match, Danielson had found a new level, and Aries had no answers. Many people were shocked at the one sided nature of the bout - Aries barely gets any offense to work for about eight minutes at the start, for example - but it set the tone for the entire Danielson title reign perfectly. I just loved that, and it set things up nicely for the Roderick Strong matches that then followed.

 

In terms of this Chicago match, of course they worked in all their stuff, it was their last encounter and the last chance for bragging rights (which is probably what the whole series has been about, I guess). I didn't feel it was crammed in, they did get 25 minutes after all, and I liked the way they really peaked at the end of the match.

 

Here are the weekend's results, for anyone interested...

 

Dayton, Friday night:

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

Jim Cornette comes out and welcomes the crowd to the show.

 

1. Metal Master d. Sami Callihan - Metal Master wins with a roll up.

 

2. Necro Butcher & "Skullcrusher" Rasche Brown d. Erick Stevens & Shawn Daivari - Necro/Skullcrusher win after a spear from Brown. After the match, Stevens powerbombed Necro onto the back of 2 chairs.

 

3. Chris Hero d. Petey Williams - Williams hit the Destroyer, but Hagadorn pulled the ref out, and Hero wins by submission. Hero retains his #3 ranking in the Pick Six. Said to be "awesome".

 

4. American Wolves d. Dark City Fight Club - Todd said this was amazing, and the crowd loved all of it. About 25 minutes. Edwards had one of the DCFC in the Boston Crab, and Richards came off the top and hit him with a flying headbutt, which forced the DCFC member to tap. Crowd gave them all a huge standing ovation after the match.

 

INTERMISSION

 

5. House of Truth d. Austin Aries & Rhett Titus - Big upset here, there was mis-communication between Aries and Titus, and the House of Truth gets the win after a "wheelbarrow knees to the head".

 

6. Roderick Strong d. El Generico - Said to be a classic, Strong wins with the running kick. Steen attacks post match...Briscoes make the save, leading to their match.

 

7. Kevin Steen & Steve Corino d. Briscoe Brothers - Said it was a "decent crazy brawl". The pin was with the tights...Corino pinned Jay.

 

8. Tyler Black d. Kenny King to retain the ROH World Title - Started slow, picked up. Black wins with Kneeling Superkick. Was good, but not great.

 

 

 

[close spoiler]

");document.close();

 

Chicago, last night (main show only, who cares about the pre-show...):

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

--"Skullcrusher" Rache Brown v "The New Horror" Sami Callihan: Brown wins in a "fun match" with a Burning Hammer. Brown had his ribs taped up. Crowd was really into Skullcrusher.

 

--The Dark City Fight Club vs The Bravado Brothers: Dark City wins via ref stoppage when the one of the BB gets his head repetedly slammed into the mat. Post match, the other BB thats the Powerbomb/Neck Breaker combo. Match was said to be much more competitive that you would think.

 

--Eddie Edwards v The Metal Master: Edwards wins by submission with a single leg crab. Said to be a "nice technical match"

 

--The Embassy v The House of Truth: Mid match, Nana threw water on a fan and slapped the fan, said fan was ejected (possibly for a Security Guard tv show). The HoT were DQ'd following interference of Truth Martini with a flying headscissor, right in front of the ref, who didnt end the match for almost a minute later. Match said to be pretty bad. And the Nana stuff really distracted from it.

 

--Davey Richards v Roderick Strong: Match ends in a 20 minute time limit draw. Roddy backed out of the "5 more mins" chant that filled the building so he could focus on his upcoming title match. Match was said to be "insane". Direct quote from SJR, "F'n Epic match. Ive been to every Chicago show since December 2007, and this is the best match Ive seen live."

 

Intermission: Estimated Attendance is 750-800, but he stated hes not good at guessing these things

 

--Petey Williams v Rhett Titus: Titus wins after reversing the Destroyer and bridging with the ropes for leverage. I was told it was both a "boring match" and a "decent match that went to long"

 

--The Briscoes v Austin Aries and Kenny King: Prematch promo from Aries where says there in no dissension between himself and King. He said last night the Briscoes got drunk and fought each other saying there is more dissension there. When the Briscoes hit the ring, the were arguing with each other. The Briscoes win after King accidently hits Aries with his finisher, King eats a JayDriller, and Aries is pinned after a Doomsday Device. Post match. Aries and King start shoving each other, but Titus comes out to make the peace and they all end up hugging it out... bitch.

 

--Tyler Black v Chris Hero: Tyler retains with a Superkick followed by Gods Last Gift in an awesome match. Lots of elbows, lots of near falls, crowd was digging it the whole time.

 

--Steen & Corino vs Generico & Cabana Street Fight: Ninja's txt midmatch, "Now THIS is a Chicago Streetfight!" "Ladders, Scaffolds, Double Tables, Beer Bottles, and Barbed Wire". Cabana and Generico win a in a ultra bloody fight. Steen hits a Michunoku Driver on Generico on the scaffold that hold the hard camera, lot of unprotected chair shots (note from ROHawkeye, I guess we just lost Lance Storm as a fan...), Corino busted a beer bottle on the ring post and attacked Colt with what was left in his hand, Corino used a fork, Steen with apron powerbomb like at the Big Bang, Generico used a barbwire bat. Finish came when Colt had Corino in the Billy Goats Curse and Generico put the barbwire bat on the mat, laid Corinos face on it, and smashed him in the back of the head with a chair. Ref called for the bell. The cut on Corino is "one of the worst ive ever seen, think Eddie v JBL" Post match, Steen challenges Generico for any match of Genericos choosing for NYC and promises to kill Generico. Even Pearce comes out to check on Corino as he stayed in the ring for several mins after the match.

 

 

[close spoiler]

");document.close();

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I'd forgotten about that one! I can remember them having a match in autumn 06 that wasn't much cop due to Dragon's knackered shoulder. I'll try and rewatch them all at some point, probably in the summer when I've got some time off.

 

Re : Steen, I just watched his match with Human Tornado at SoCal Showdown. The problem with Steens' heel turn is that Steen has essentially always wrestled like a heel, so in the HT match he doesn't really do anything different, apart from licking himself and the camera, which just looks daft quite frankly. He needs to drop the comedy - if I was Pearce (thank fuck I'm not) I'd ban him from interacting with the crowd whatsoever in his matches. He needs to develop some new offence and let that do the talking. I think having Corino as his manager is a stroke of genius, as Steen just doesn't have the mike skills to carry this angle on his own.