Official ROH Discussion Thread

[cobystag]

No. The guy has been to OVW for one week granted, but he's never wrestled in any dark matches or as local job squad like some other indy guys.

Wasn't that Claudio?

 

No, Claudio was used as security on Raw once and was signed. A week after being signed he was let go, people cite visa issues, but Claudio himself dismissed that. He may have been signed at a bad (financial) time and got the cut along with several others, I can't really remember now.

 

Overall, an excellent, 4-hour plus marathon show that reaffirmed my interest in ROH.

 

Ladder War 2: American Wolves vs. Kevin Steene & El Generico - Okay, so lets get this out there - this was not as good as Ladder War 1. But considering the status of one Eddie Edwards, who by the way was getting a ton of chants and support from the crowd, this was as good a match as they could possibly have pulled out given the circumstances.

Maybe they should have just added the Bucks and Briscoes and made it a TLC War, BANG, problem solved, just a thought.

 

No, because then it wouldn't have been a Ladder War. The Ladder was brought in exclusively to show the hatred between the two teams and if you actually followed ROH, you'd know that this were to have been only the SECOND Ladder War in the company's history after it was "banned" after the first one two years ago.

 

The storyline was that these two teams hated each other so much they just wanted to kill each other, before the Title's came into play.

 

Adding Briscoes/Bucks would have cheapened the match and purpose/storyline.

[David]

Bobby Cruise goes to announce the next NYC ROH date when some old schools sounding rock music hits, everyone scratches their head wondering who is coming out, and lo and behold its Jim Cornette who goes on and cuts a venom-laced promo on the current state of wrestling, running down TNA, Vince Russo, Hornswoggle and the concept of sports entertainment. He says that Nigel and Dragon leaving is like when Joe and Daniels left - the rest of the roster stepped up and now it's time for guys like Tyler Black to fill the role created by their departures. Cornette is so great and is so passionate about wrestling that I can't describe it. He then announces that as of the afternoon, he has accepted the position of Executive Producer of the HDNet show.

 

Glad to see Cornette back in wrestling again so soon after being dumped by TNA.

 

Hopefully we'll get a shoot interview from him which will go into detail on how TNA has been run in recent times, especially with Russo involved.

[gadge]

ROH Supercard of Honor IV - Houston, TX 3.4.09

 

ROH follows Wrestlemania to Houston, and draws a big crowd. The fact that the next afternoon's show is a PPV taping means they have the boom camera in, so production is above average and the sizeable crowd is really shown off.

 

Nigel kicks us off with a nice promo admitting his body is wrecked, but that the determination to remain champion is still there. We'll see about that, won't we...

Erick Stevens vs Rhett Titus is a standard opener. Rhett gets his schtick in, but falls to the master of the Choo Choo after that and an elevated lariat.

 

Chris Hero, Eddie Edwards and Incognito vs Kevin Steen, Jay Briscoe and Magno - ROH books lucha stars! ROH seems unsure what to do with lucha stars so dumps them in low card six man action! Lucha stars break the top rope after just 90 seconds! Match continues and lucha stars steal the match! Seriously, the top rope may break, but this is still a lot of fun to watch. Incognito and Magno still do some lucha stuff, Steen gets isolated for a long time, Briscoe then Magno get hot tags, Magno does some sweet high flying even without a top rope including a moonsault off the ring post to the floor (!) - then Hero gets the pin on Magno with the loaded elbow at the 14 minute mark. That's right, they still go 14 minutes even without a top rope.

 

D'Lo cuts a good promo before his match with Colt Cabana later. He forewarns Cabana that he doesn't care how he scores the win later.

 

Roderick Strong vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - Good stuff here, while it lasts. The final couple of minutes are especially hot. Strong works the back, Nakajima sensibly takes out one of his knees to try and limit the backbreakers, but Strong puts together one of those massive adrenaline rush flurries, culminating in a Gibson Driver which is enough to put Nakajima down for three just before the ten minute mark.

 

From good athletic stuff, we go to Bobby Dempsey making friends with Kamala in what I assume is the writing out of the Sweet 'n' Sour angle as Sweeney notoriously completed his going mental in Houston. Good in the sense that it was short and OTT enough to draw a smile.

 

Alex Kozlov cuts a promo. In Russian. I'm sure the ROH fans in Russia appreciate it...

 

Claudio Castagnoli vs Brent Albright vs Blue Demon Jr vs El Generico - Not sure what the point is of bringing in the NWA World Heavyweight Champion for an eight and a half minute Four Corner Survival. This is more of a Four Corner Scramble actually, as they ditch the tag rules to go lucha style. What action there is flows just fine, Albright is obviously targetting Castagnoli wherever he can, but his overeagerness gets the best of him, as he shoves the ref and Claudio capitalises with a low blow and a rollup for the pin on his (continued) rival. Generico and Blue Demon looked good when they got the opportunity.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Alex Koslov - Starter courses well and truly done, we're onto the meat and drink of the card from here on. As with many of his matches this year in the mid card, Danielson doesn't approach full speed here, and there's some USA vs Russia hokeyness, but there's still plenty of stuff in this fifteen minuter to flesh things out. AAA's Kozlov certainly fits into ROH easily from an in-ring standpoint. Kozlov makes the mistake of stealing Cattle Mutilation and then going for the MMA elbows, and Danielson turns the tables for a submission victory.

D'Lo Brown vs Colt Cabana - both men get plenty of fan support to start here in what turns out to be a very WWE style match. D'Lo then heels it up for the most part and the delivers the screwy victory he promised earlier, escaping the Billy Goats Curse by calling the ref in as if he's going to verbally submit, then tapping out on Cabana's ankle on the side the ref can't see, so Cabana releases the hold thinking he's won. Shortly after D'Lo breaks out taped brass knucks and nails a punch when Cabana comes off the top for the pin at 11 minutes. Boo you D'Lo. Creative finish, at least.

GHC JR. HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE: KENTA vs Davey Richards - Ah, now this is the good stuff. Formerly mentor/protege from back in 2006, KENTA and Davey beat the tar out of each other for 18 minutes. An absolute belter of an athletic match in the ROH tradition. Davey just lets his heel persona slip right near the end, after surviving a near countout following a KENTA Falcon Arrow to the floor and spitting in his face, he then switches to Fighting Spirit mode as he counters the Go 2 Sleep with a dragon screw into the Texas Cloverleaf. KENTA still manages to retain with a Go 2 Sleep out of a Burning Hammer position, and Davey shakes hands afterwards. Unless he's gradually going to switch to a fan favourite (albeit maintaining the hard nosed persona), that and Davey's post match "This is what ROH is all about!" promo doesn't fit his character.

 

Austin Aries and Jimmy Jacobs vs Tyler Black and Necro Butcher - Aside from a minute or so before the match officially starts, where Tyler dives on Aries and Jacobs and they brawl around the outside, this is pretty much just filler to cool the crowd before the main event. Tyler gets isolated, and Jacobs and Aries do the southern tag thing, then they fall out and Tyler makes the tag. It doesn't make a difference in the end however, as Jacobs stops Tyler from nailing the Buckle Bomb on Aries with a spear, then Aries hits the kick to the head and brainbuster and Tyler is down for three after just 11 minutes.

 

ROH WORLD TITLE: Nigel McGuinness vs Jerry Lynn - I have a feeling this match is going to be underrated in the long run, due to the general downer that was put on Lynn's reign simply because it's him ending Nigel's reign after all this time when Tyler should probably have done it sometime in 2008. Anyway, this is a pretty damned fine match, probably the best between the two of them in ROH. Lynn going after Nigel's arm with his own London Dungeon, and more often a cross armbreaker, is a well executed story, and they bring the big moves inbetween as well. Nigel insanely hits more than one lariat including a jawbreaker with his bad arm, and his unwillingness to submit even with his bad arm, with a second cradle piledriver finally being the move to put him down, puts him over huge. Jerry Lynn is your NEW ROH World Champion in just over 19 minutes. The decision to do this in Houston is sound, as even though Nigel gets some support from the crowd, the pop for the title change is HUGE and Lynn looks every bit the conquering hero. It's telling that they don't have the locker room empty for Lynn, as Cary Silkin instead gets in the ring to congratulate the new champ and tend to the fallen Nigel. Yes Cary, well done, the title change worked well here.

 

Overall, Supercard of Honor IV is a fine show, with value for money at 3 hours, 5 minutes on DVD, two title matches that really deliver the goods and some other stuff worth getting your teeth into on the undercard. This shoots to the top of the ROH 2009 pile for me.

[Oliver]

Ring of Honor HDNet program 10/05/2009

 

Watch the show here is you so please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4_55pBsaQ

 

Sonjay Dutt vs Delirious

 

Enjoyable encounter where I mostly remember Sonjay Dutt's beautiful hurricanrana's which he snapped off with relative ease. Nice ending as well with Dutt countering Shadows over Hell with a diamond cutter and then rolling back to transition in to the camal clutch for the submission win. Post match sees Dutt retaining the hold only for Dazie to break it up. Dutt gets up, feels himself up a bit and gives Haze a creepy, perverse look. I know in the future he'll kiss her (see the video wire) but tonight Delirious chases Dutt away. Dutt can really convey a great character, its such a shame TNA wasted him with a Guru gimmick and dress up matches.

 

Eddie Kingston vs Kyle Matthews

 

Prolonged squash match with Kyle Matthews showing a lot more competence than some of the other mis-timing jobbers. The commentators talk about Hero's match with Kenta next week, and Prazak knocks Eddie Kingston for not being able to move on. Kingston yells Hero's name throughout slapping around the jobber.

 

Joey Ryan vs Roderick Strong

 

Fair encounter but with a poor ending. Prince Na Na drags Roddy to the outside while he made a cover, Roderick shoves him away prompting Na Na to unconvincingly throw himself in to the laps of the front row fans. Roddy re-enters the ring only to take a poor superkick with Ryan blatantly slapping his thigh to produce the sound. I'm a big fan of Joey, but that was just terrible, and sadly that was what put Strong down for the 3 count. Post match, Roderick hits his wicked charging kick.

 

Tag team Honor Rumble

 

8 teams, 2 to start and 6 to enter at 90 second intervals. Eliminations occur when a team mate is thrown over the top rope with both feet hitting the floor. A small tag team royal rumble essentially.

 

We start with an unshaven Ernie Osiris (Another reminder that this is out of sync with the video wires) and Jimmy Rave facing The Young Bucks. The Young Bucks turn the tables after getting jumped and, with their dazzling tandem offense, double superkick Osiris from the aprons edge to the floor. A correction, both team mates have to be eliminated as Jimmy Rave is now going at it alone. He is quickly joined by The Dark City Fight Club, who drill The Young Bucks with a couple of double team maneuvers. Cory Chavis averts a Jimmy Rave sneak attack and various exchanges near the ropes proceed until Rhett Titus and Kenny King are entered in. As they showboat, Rave sneaks up on King while he's posing on the ropes, and throws him over. But King holds on and Rave falls victim to some double teaming, bumping quite unusually to a clothesline. Once again we are treated to various exchanges of wrestlers jostling by the ropes until...

 

Erick Stevens and Brent Albright enter and shoulder block and clothesline various workers down. Jimmy Rave is tossed out and then Stevens and Albright face off with The Dark City Fight Club. All 4 men are jumped by the remaining contestants, this is all going way too fast. El Generico and Kevin Steen enter while The Young Bucks each eliminate a member of TDCFC with dropkicks. One of the Jacksons goes out shortly afterward and is pummeled on the outside by TDCFC prompting the other Jackson brother to suicide dive off the top rope, wiping them out. Another spot which would have benefited with more time and a replay ala WWE's production. Stevens and Brent are also eliminated, Stevens by Kenny King via a sweet kick. King celebrates with his back to Generico, Steen and The Briscoes lying in wait behind him in another spot that goes by too quickly. The Briscoes and The Wolves enter after Generico Yakuza kicks King out. Mark Briscoe ends up being the last man after eliminating Davey Richards, with assistance from Jay Briscoe on the outside, and Eddie Edwards.

 

The match was a nice concept but was crying out for more time. They ought to have dedicated the majority of their program to this one match so all the happenings in it could have gone at a pace where it would have all sunk in better.

 

 

Overall an enjoyable show until the last match which was tainted by not having enough time allocated to it. On the whole though ROH TV has definitely grown on me from when it first started.

[gadge]

Took me a few seconds to realise that 10/05/09 meant October 5th there, but cheers Oliver.

 

Friday night results...

 

a) Jordan McIntyre & ??? over The Bravado Brothers

 

b) Grizzly Redwood over Tony Kozina

 

c) Bobby Dempsey, Alex "Sugarfoot" Payne & Mike Sydal over Aaron Scott, Shawn Schultz & Muscle Machine

 

~Jim Cornette opened the show with a promo talking about how ROH is there to give the fans the wrestlers and the wrestling that they WANT to see.

 

1. Challenge Match

Roderick Strong over Kevin Steen via roll up following a Package Piledriver from Steen, which Strong used momentum to bound out of and gain the pinfall.

 

2. SHIMMER Challenge Match

SHIMMER Champion MsChif over Nicole Matthews

 

Austin Aries out to draw for the "A Double L Double" and the name drawn is:

 

DAIZEE HAZE

 

Delirious accompanies Haze along with Jim Cornette.

 

Cornette establishes Austin Aries v. Delirious for the ROH World Title officially for tonight.

 

3. Four Corner Survival Match

"Very European" Claudio Castagnoli over "Crazy" Ace Steel, Colt "Boom Boom" Cabana and Petey Williams following a Ricola Bomb on Steel.

 

4. Tag Team Challenge Match

Jay & Mark Briscoe over The House of Truth of Josh Raymond & Christin Able w/ Truth Martini when Jay Briscoe pinned Josh Raymond after the Springboard Doomsday Device - crowd was into the match BIG TIME!

 

INTERMISSION

 

5. Challenge Match

Kenny Omega over Davey Richards in a must see match with a small package; just hard-hitting, all action from bell to bell. (****) match and per Fanatic "this is the reason I come to shows!"

 

6. Tag Team Challenge Match

Kenny King & Rhett "Addicted to Love" Titus over The Young Bucks of Nick & Matt Jackson; Bucks hit "More Bang for Your Buck" on King, but Titus schoolboyed Matt for the pin and held the tights!

 

7. Challenge Match

Tyler Black over "That Young Knock Out Kid" Chris Hero after God's Last Gift and surviving murderous elbows from Hero.

 

8. Ring of Honor World Title "A Double, L Double" Match

Austin Aries © over Delirious to retain his title - at one point Aries did his missile dive and took out Daizee Haze on the floor. Delirious went for the aid, but Aries nailed a Brainbuster to the floor but Delirious beat the count back in the ring. Comeback was made, only to see Delirious miss Shadows Over Hell. Aries nails a kick to the head and Brainbuster again to win it.

 

Last night's Survival of the Fittest results...

 

Jim Cornette opens show. Delirious has bye into SOTF Finale

 

1. Tag Team Challenge Match The Young Bucks of Nick & Matt Jackson over The House of Truth of Josh Raymond & Christin Able

 

2. Survival of the Fittest Qualifying Match Colt "Boom Boom" Cabana over Kevin Steen

 

3. Survival of the Fittest Qualifying Match Roderick Strong over Rhett "Addicted to Love" Titus

 

4. Survival of the Fittest Qualifying Match Tyler Black over "The Pretty Boy Pitbull

[lightningxlock]

Hate to be cliched but ROH really just looks dire these days. Im currently working my way thorugh a batch of 2005 shows and the differences betweeb then and now are like night and day. Very sad really

[gadge]

The ROH boards are actually a lot, lot more positive about the shows this weekend than much of 2009, especially Omega vs Richards the first night and the Strong/Black finale to SOTF (though most are unhappy that Black beat Strong, feeling Tyler's main event ship has sailed)...

 

Personally, I'm not minding the ROH of 2009, but the Nigel title run really ran the main event part of the cards into the ground in the last third of 2008/first third of 2009, and the fact the belt then went to Jerry Lynn when it should have gone to Tyler as much as eight months earlier turned loads more people off. I'm just starting the Lynn title run on DVD now, and as a transitional champion to get the belt to Aries, I'm expecting things to play out fine. As for now, I love Aries' current gimmick and the focus almost seems stronger on the tag division, though in Eddie Edwards abscence it appears Davey Richards will be joining Tyler Black and Roderick Strong as main contenders to Aries.

Edited October 11, 2009 by gadge

[TysonSL]

it appears Davey Richards will be joining Tyler Black and Roderick Strong as main contenders to Aries.

 

That's the best decision ROH could make. That has potential to be a really good main event roster there. As much as I'd rather see Davey win the title next, it makes sense to have Tyler win the title, then have Davey as the next top contender. That would mean (in an ideal world) Black's title reign would be short, but I'd hate for Richards to miss the boat, like Tyler did

[gary v1]

ROH Supercard of Honor IV - Houston, TX 3.4.09

 

ROH follows Wrestlemania to Houston, and draws a big crowd. The fact that the next afternoon's show is a PPV taping means they have the boom camera in, so production is above average and the sizeable crowd is really shown off.

 

Ah I was lucky enough to be at this card. First ROH show and very enjoyable too. The GHC Jr match in particular was great. The 6 man with the rope breaking was indeed great fun live and they did a really good job working the rope break into the match. eg when someone was in a submission hold his partner just picked up the slack rope and threw it into the middle of the ring for his partner to grab hold of. Unfortunately for them the ref didn't call for the break.

 

Also I can confirm that Larry Sweeney did indeed go nuts in Houston. We were talking to him in a bar and I think he may have been angling to come sleep on our hotel floor. Definitely had a screw loose. We saw him the next day on the street after, I assume, he'd spent the night sleeping there. Felt bad for him though, said he'd been sleeping in a car park and some bum had nicked his wallet. Was also complaining about how much money Silkin owed him and how he'd had to pay for his own flights etc.

 

Yeah fun trip though.

[MilesStraume]

Sick of the Tyler Black push now. He's not main event calibre. He has an ok wrestling style, and a half decent look, but he can't cut promos. He belongs in the main event about as much as Jimmy Jacobs who has completely lost any entertainment value he had.

 

Davey Richards is a good choice for the top contender but I wish he'd show me something more. Watching him is like watching Benoit in that you can see every single move and spot coming minutes before it happens.

[gadge]

Take No Prisoners 2009 - Houston, TX - 4.4.09

 

ROH's twelfth and final taped PPV, in front of a very sizeable crowd on the afternoon before WWE presented the Hall of Fame ceremony on Wrestlemania weekend.

 

Before I get to the PPV itself, Rhett Titus pins Bushwacker Luke in less than three minutes with a rollup and a handful of tights in what is tenuously billed as a bonus match. The entrances are entertaining, and I guess I've seen worse three minute matches.

 

Colt Cabana vs Ace Steel is your PPV opener. The battle of the Second City Saints is largely overshadowed by Dave Prazak and Lenny Leonard talking on commentary to now former World Champion Nigel McGuinness about his previous 18 months with the belt, and his 2005 feud with Cabana. However, when the match switches from comedy and crowd interaction to actual wrestling, things get more focused... Cabana forces Crazy Ace to tap to the Billy Goat's Curse at about nine and a half minutes. Welcome to PPV Colt... Oh.

 

A video promo then airs covering the Steen and Generico vs American Wolves feud that seems to be hyping their big match at the Hammerstein Ballroom... a week earlier. Jay Briscoe, Magno, Kevin Steen and El Generico vs Chris Hero, Incognito and the American Wolves is the actual match on offer here. Magno and Incognito bring the lucha while the ROH regulars brawl around ringside before the match even starts. When the match gets underway proper, we get an all action encounter, while it lasts anyway. Magno completes a Spike Jay Driller on Hero to give the faces the win, again at about the nine and a half minute mark. More time would have made this a real blinder, I reckon.

Jimmy Jacobs vs Necro Butcher is billed as a no-DQ match on the DVD case, and announced to the live crowd as a no-DQ War, but the announcers and graphics push it as a Fight Without Honor. I'm not sure why they did that, as it doesn't live up to Fights Without Honor of the past, though there's double juice, a brawl into the bleachers, and a good sense of focus when they bring it back to the ring that most generic AOTF brawls have lacked. Necro pins Jacobs at the fifteen minute mark with a Tiger Driver onto a small pile of chairs. That makes it the second longest match on the show, for the record.

 

A video promo covering the Albright vs Castagnoli feud actually covers the events of the feud better than most video promos on the show, which are just a bunch of random clips. Nigel McGuinness then comes out to talk to the crowd about being unable to wrestle yet not feeling the need to apologise after the efforts of this title reign. As his scheduled tag partner, Claudio doesn't like that, and completes Nigel's face turn by attacking him.

 

Unfortunately, in the abscence of Nigel, we get one of those awkward three way matches with tag rules, Claudio Castagnoli vs Brent Albright vs Blue Demon Jr. Claudio's attack on Nigel comes back to haunt him, as Nigel messes with Claudio's attempt to nail the Ricola Bomb, and Albright nails the distracted Claudio with the half nelson suplex for the pin. This match, involving the NWA Champion in Blue Demon, went less than six minutes. A massive waste of the NWA Champ and PPV time.

 

Alex Kozlov vs Roderick Strong is not bad at all as athletic matches go, but Kozlov repeats all of his Russian spots from the Danielson match the night before without much variation. Roderick picks up the win after eight minutes with the Stronghold, which makes sense.

 

Jerry Lynn vs Bryan Danielson vs Erick Stevens vs D'Lo Brown - The first World title defense for the new champion goes on second to last on PPV... not a good message to send out, I'd say. D'Lo seems more interested in facing off against Danielson than the champ in the early going, making Jerry look more like a chump than a champ. Poor Jerry. Danielson actually getting the chance to face off with D'Lo is teased a couple of times, building pretty well to Danielson taking out D'Lo with that massive dive into the crowd he does. Unfortunately for him, that leaves Lynn to pick off designated jobber Erick Stevens with the cradle piledriver. Again, at just eight minutes there's a distinct lack of substance, but what's there is fun enough while it lasts.

 

KENTA and Tyler Black vs Katsuhiko Nakajima and Austin Aries - Finally, this dream partner tag main event provides top quality action worthy of ROH at any time period. KENTA is MASSIVELY over with the crowd, much more than anyone else. On the opposite side, Austin Aries is the driving force behind the match, keeping the flow going with his desire to avoid KENTA's kicks and Tyler Black in general. KENTA and Nakajima, as expected, have an explosive early exchange and any time they end up against each other the tempo picks up. Naturally, Aries has to take his punishment in the latter stages of the match, which is much fun, though Aries has his own explosive offense when the right time comes. It's not to be Aries' night here though, as a big exchange of kicks involving all four men ends when Tyler counters the brainbuster with God's Last Gift for the winning pinfall at the 22 minute mark.

 

Cracking main event aside, I'd say the ROH PPV experiment goes out with more of a whimper than a bang here. Seven matches is probably one too many for a two hour show, with the World Title and eight man matches in particular both starved of time. In a way, it was a bit like a TNA PPV in that the undercard felt like it had to have as many people jammed in as possible just to keep everyone happy. Check out Supercard of Honor IV from the previous evening over this show if looking for a DVD purchase...

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Stylin & Profilin

[PowerButchi]

Ring of Honor has won an award.

 

According to Pwinsider.com, Ring of Honor was given a special award in The Village Voice's Best of NYC issue. The award? Best Place to Watch Straight Men Get All Homoerotic. Read on for the caption from The Voice

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Ring of Honor has won an award.

 

According to Pwinsider.com, Ring of Honor was given a special award in The Village Voice's Best of NYC issue. The award? Best Place to Watch Straight Men Get All Homoerotic. Read on for the caption from The Voice

Edited October 23, 2009 by Dearly Devoted Dexter

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

The lack of stuff going on in the ROH thread at moment tells you all you need to know about the state of ROH at present. I was hoping to write a piece entitled "The Decline and Fall of ROH", but I havn't had time.

 

My copy of Insanity Unleashed was faulty, and ROH are being dicks about replacing it. So it's straight onto...

 

Steel City Clash