Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Hmmm, maybe. Bored in a seminar a while back, I did sketch out a scenario where Edwards was going to turn on Richards with Kyle O Reilly and form the American Wolves 2.0. Maybe have Richards turn heel on Edwrads, and have him him ditch O Reilly as his protege in favour of Cole (who is a more natural heel)?

[The Cum Doctor]

I did sketch out a scenario where Edwards was going to turn on Richards with Kyle O Reilly and form the American Wolves 2.0. Maybe have Richards turn heel on Edwrads, and have him him ditch O Reilly as his protege in favour of Cole (who is a more natural heel)?

 

If Richards turns, he isn't going with anyone. I especially can't see them breaking up a team like Cole and O'Reilly who are beginning to make waves. They're gonna win the tag titles at some point in the future, that's for sure.

 

The Richards heel turn after an Edwards win is almost a given I say.

[Daaaaaad!]

I genuinely think it'd be a better idea, though, to have Edwards turn on Richards. The opposite is so obvious and the fans support Davey regardless of alignment, so why not have Edwards beat him, Davey goes for a handshake, Eddie grabs him and knees him in the balls, declares himself to be the stronger American Wolf and go from there?

[gadge]

Dragon Gate USA: Way of the Ronin - Milwaukee, WI - 26/9/10

 

This is DGUSA's debut in Milwaukee, which started late after trouble with the ring not arriving on time and having to be assembled by the entire roster after what was supposed to be bell time. The crowd still seems eager by show time, however...

 

Aeroform vs Zero Gravity - The only pre-show match on the DVD is this throwaway tag match. This is even worse than the tag division of EVOLVE, completely pointless. Aeroform win in 5:30.

 

CIMA vs Chuck Taylor - A solid opener to the main show, with CIMA teasing beforehand that Chucky T could follow Ricochet into Warriors International. Once you get past the comedy opening minutes there's some good action here, and though CIMA never seems in too much trouble, Chuck does get to kick out of the Perfect Driver and Schwein before being pinned after Meteora at 11:08. Johnny Gargano then interrupts the post-match, leading straight into...

 

Drake Younger vs Johnny Gargano - Younger attacks when Gargano tries to talk CIMA into having him inducted to Warriors, and this Grudge match starts immediately. It's good for the most part, though Younger has horrible ring gear, and the finishing sequence is ridiculous. Younger kicks out of the Hurts Donut at one, only to get hit by a superkick and another Hurts Donut and pinned at 9:59.

 

Six Way Freestyle: Jimmy Jacobs vs Brodie Lee vs Mike Quackenbush vs Rich Swann vs Silas Young vs Kyle O'Reilly - Nice to get a memorable six man mayhem style bout once in awhile. There were some particularly decent exchanges between Quack and Swann, and O'Reilly and Young, but it was big Brodie Lee who got the win with a massive big boot on Swann at 11:22. Fun.

 

In a pre-taped promo, Jon Moxley claims he's had John Cena on the phone offering him money to break Bryan Danielson's arm. How he kept a straight face for that line I'll never know...

 

Dragon Kid vs Arik Cannon - Much like the opener, this is a solid match considering it's DG star vs indy wrestler, they gel fairly well and the action flows nicely enough. Arik Cannon is still a podgy guy in pleather though. DK gets the win using Bible at 9:42.

 

Gran Akuma vs Ricochet - This one doesn't flow like a wrestling match at all. Ricochet is in flips overkill mode early, and Akuma struggles to keep up just with being in the right position. My attention then waned completely in the middle part, until Ricochet hit a spectacular 630 for the win at 7:22 and that woke the crowd up. This is about as close to a squash any match this promotion has had not featuring Brodie Lee, and Akuma is pretty much useless now.

 

Bryan Danielson vs Jon Moxley - Well, Danielson promised a fight in the promos for this one and delivered a fight for the most part, even including a blade job (possibly his last one ever!). There's a decent amount of wrestling content too and Danielson takes Moxley to his best match (that I've seen anyway). Moxley taps to the LeBell lock (what else?) at 14:56, but Danielson does go out of his way to kick his f'n head in first. Gran Akuma attacks Danielson afterwards, and it's Jimmy Jacobs who makes the save and gets the departure rub from Danielson. Well, that worked out well for DGUSA didn't it? This was all good stuff from a fan perspective though.

 

BxB Hulk, Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi vs SHINGO, YAMATO & Akira Tozawa - A stunning six man tag between the World-1 and KAMIKAZE USA trios, the best DGUSA match of 2010 to this point for me which makes it the best DGUSA match since Dragon Hawk vs Speed Muscle at Open The Freedom Gate. Loads of character early on, an epic sprint sequence, and a meaningful finish. You can't ask for much more than that. BxB Hulk is pinned at 26:41, by his nemesis SHINGO, after the Stay Dream. That earns him a title shot at Hulk at the next show, methinks...

 

Overall - The top two matches are really good, with the six man being essential for the wrestling and Danielson's last match being, well, Danielson's last match. The Milwaukee crowd are rabid in spite of the late start, without being too moronic, which helps a bunch. I remember Gabe said that the roster bonded after coming together to make the show happen, and you could almost feel that here. One not to miss.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Defy or Deny

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dearly Devoted Dexter

[Adorable Adrian]

I am seriously loving this storyline right now, these little promo's are gold. Looks like business may be about to pick up

 

Corino and Jacobs seek help

[air_raid]

But what

[The Rog]

Am looking to update the backlog of events ive missed from from ROH, rather than going through the usual recommendations Im asking is there any events to avoid buying alltogether as Im sure there'll be fewer of those

[Adorable Adrian]

Am looking to update the backlog of events ive missed from from ROH, rather than going through the usual recommendations Im asking is there any events to avoid buying alltogether as Im sure there'll be fewer of those

 

This thread on the roh boards may help you out

 

Worst ROH Shows Thread

 

Don't know if this has already been picked up on:

 

Former ROH World Tag Team Champions Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli (Collectively known as The Kings of Wrestling) were on hand for this week's WWE television tapings of RAW in New York and Smackdown! in Providence, Rhode Island. Both worked out in the ring in front of officials before each show.

 

Castagnoli signed a developmental contract with WWE in November 2006 but was released a short while later for reasons that have yet to be publicly disclosed.

 

Credit: PWInsider.com and LordsofPain.net

[The Cum Doctor]

I've been working through the older shows and the only one so far I'd avoid from 2002/2003 is Empire State Showdown which is just utter shite.

[Adorable Adrian]

Is that the one with the lengthly pre match intro's by Cornio and Punk. Where Punk gets the announcer to read a list of drugs he's never taken. Unfortunately that was probably the best part of the show.

[The Cum Doctor]

Aye. They had a 20 minute draw on that show. Admittedly, it was a nifty wee match and the best on the show.

[Big Benny HG]

Am looking to update the backlog of events ive missed from from ROH, rather than going through the usual recommendations Im asking is there any events to avoid buying alltogether as Im sure there'll be fewer of those

To be honest, especially from 2008-2009 onwards, you could probably just get the 'bigger' shows of the year, not bother with the rest, and catch pretty much everything that is significant, noteworthy or especially good. As a general rule, that would be Anniversary Show, WrestleMania weekend events, Death Before Dishonor, Manhatten Mayhem, Glory By Honor, Final Battle, the other PPVs such as Driven, Respect is Earned, Undeniable, Caged Collision etc and any other odd events that you fancy the look of.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Off the top of my head, here are some utterly dire ROH shows

 

Escalation

Reborn Again

The Last Stand

SOFT 2010

 

Just about any show held in Manassas

[Big Benny HG]

Woah, steady, nearly at the end of 2009...

 

Eye of the Storm II - 18 December 2009 (Manassas, Virginia)

 

Bit of an extra, this one. Held the day before 'Final Battle 2009', this one was presumably deemed not good enough to deserve a DVD release in it's own right (much like the shows that got badged as the 2 'Double Feature' releases). All the matches, however, have been included as bonus features on the DVD release of 'Final Battle', so the show can still be watched in chronoloigal order. There's fuck all chance of anything happening the nigth before their biggest show of the year, but there might be the odd gem. They did have a live audience after all (well, not much of one - more on that later). What makes things awkward is that the bouts from EofS2 are spread across the 2 discs in the 'Final Battle' set, interspersed with 'Final Battle' bouts. After watching the two shows, it becomes obvious as to why this has to be, but what it does mean is that you are found switching between menus and discs if you want to watch the event in full.

 

Matt Classic and Adam Pearce vs. The Set. Fuck me, there's hardly any fucker here. Crowd is only two rows deep on each side. I guess the title of the show means there was weather issues (it is the middle of December, on the Eastern side of the US, after all) which caused people to stay at home. Can quickly see why this show was only deemed worthy of being a bonus feature on another release. This bout marks the first ROH appearance of Matt Classic, the masked alter-ego of Colt Cabana which started life in the quick-paced MTV's Wrestling Society X then grew and expanded upon in places like PWG. It's a brilliant character, an old-school carnival strongman wrestler of the 1950s with appropriate mnoveset and mannerisms. The Set is J-Sin and Lance Lewd. They have absolutely awful gear, furry boots and headbands. One of them is skinnier than anyone in BritWres. Commentator Dave Prazack says that they are HDNet jobbers. Well, he didn't use those exact words, but still. They are dreadful, doing over-contrived spots that don't make much sense. The absolute shittiest worst of the worst of teh indiez. Not good opponents for Classic and Pearce. Having said that, match was saved from being a complete disaster by the shenanigans and characterisation of Pearce and Classic, working with this shower of shite the best they could. Match ended when Sin snap-mared partner Lewd off the top rope onto Pearce, then followed up with a 2nd rope splash for the 3-count. It is at this point I remember Manassas as being the town with the odd (yet rather amusing) obsession with snapmares. Not much more can be said about this. Pah.

 

Next from the show is Sonjay Dutt vs. Grizzly Redwood. They just had a basic, simple, straightforward match, babyface vs. heel. Not much to it, but a perfectly acceptable house show presentation. I saw him come up through CZW, into TNA, etc, but during this bout it reminds me just how good Dutt actually is at making his opponents look great, selling their offence with perfect timing. Story was that Sonjay kept hitting all these moves (springboard splash, 2 quebradas), but refused to keep his lesser opponent down for 3, instead choosing to show off by continuing. You can see where this is heading. As he does the Ric Flair strut around the ring, Redwood cradles him for the win. Dutt keps his heat by attacking Grizzly afterwards and locking on the camel clutch. Fun.

 

Swap to disc 2 now, for Kenny Omega vs. Rhett Titus in the Pick Six series. Basics of it were that Omeg outwrestles Titus, but Rhetski the Jetski cheats to gain control each time (using ropes, gauging eyes, pulling ref, etc). Midway through, there was some kind of incident or fight in the (tiny, tiny) crowd, which most of the audience found much more interesting. Yay/boo spot, leading to Omega coming back with wacky kicks and a leapfrog bulldog. They started hitting their bigger moves now, as Kenny used the Dragon Suplex and Titus used the Super SeX-Factor, both for nearfalls. Finish came as Omega reversed the Muff Driver (Razor's Edge), hit a Hadoken(!) and won with Croyt's Wrath (the electric chair bridging-German suplex). Another perfectly acceptable, fun match.

 

Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. Bison Smith & Erick Stevens (w/ Prince Nana) was pretty much a standard tag match. Smith nailed his running shoulder block, over the ringside security barrier into the crowd. Impressive move, but the camera catches just how few people are actually here. Much short than usual ROH tag bouts, even those pseudo-squashes involving lowly scrubs like Super Smash Bros or House of Truth. Steen went for his senton from the top, only to crash land onto his opponent's knees. Well, there's a surprise. The Embassy duo take advantage by hitting a Doomsday shoulder block, a Bison lariat and a Stevens Doctor Bomb for the quick, clean win.

 

The last 3 bouts have been decent enough, but nothing special. You would definitely feel agrieved or underwhelmed if you had bought this as a stand-alone DVD, but as bonus content on a bigger release they are actually quite welcome enjoyment. That theme continued with Colt Cabana vs. Chris Hero, actually a rematch of a bout I watched live in the tiny Stockport Guildhall once upon a time in front of about 80 people. Started with Cabana daftness with ref Todd Sinclair, but they went on to have a match which I remember as being very similar to that October 2004 bout: British-style mat wrestling, with Cabana being silly and Hero getting annoyed. Hero's accomplice Shane Hagadorn jumps in and, while Colt is getting him out, Hero puts on the golden elbow pad, nails him twice and gets the win.

 

More silliness opens Austin Aries & Kenny King vs. The Young Bucks, as Aries rips on the Jacksons' matching 1980s ring gear, before he and King reveal their own matching 80s gaudy zebra-print trunks. What tremendous, tremendous men these are. Commentators mention about these fans here "braving the weather to be here", and Aries mentions about getting it done quickly so he isn't "snowed in in this hell hole". Confirms my earlier thoughts about why there are so few in the audience tonight, but doesn't explain why the ones that did "brave the weather" had to be arseholes. Aries and King were excellent as a goofy, wacky, old-school heel tag team, looking all stupid with their antics but thinking themselves that they look awesome. They rip off some of the YBs' trademark spots to a ridiculously OTT level, such as cartwheels after every move etc, then laugh at their own awesomeness while posing. Tremendously outrageous heels. Bucks hot tag kicks off their usual high-flying comeback. A-Double and K-Double hit their own interpretation of More Bang For Your Buck (!), only for Aries' final frog-splash to be blocked. The real MBFYB on King then gives the Bucks the win. Supremely entertaining.

 

Ring announcers introduces the next bout as a "rivalry match". What the fuck is that? It's Tyler Black vs. Roderick Strong, as it happens, a rematch of the last 2 in this year's 'Survival of the Fittest' and a bout at 'The Omeg Effect', with the commentators trying their best to sell it as a legendary rivalry featuring classic matches. Erm, no. I mean, they were good bouts, very good in spots, but they were hardly all-time greats. Strong worked over Tyler, noticeably more aggressively than the previous 2 bouts. Like the last match, it was a slow bout that built to big moves and near falls at the end. Crowd was quiet, except for applause early and "ooos" and "aahhhs" as it went on. Like at 'Omega Effect', it came over as supremely competitive, giving you feeling they were actually fighting for something. Dualling chants, as the fans have picked their favourite. Strong actually hits God's Last Gift on Tyler for a nearfall, commentators explaining it that the pair have become so familiar over their series of bouts that they are using their own signature moves against one another. Strong then goes on to hit a running big boot and TWO consecutive Gibson Drivers for a win between 15 and 20 minutes in the making. Strong offers the handshake afterwards, accepted by Black with a nod of acknowledgment. The "clasic series", in case you were wondering, is now 1-1-1. Good match, and now[/] I can actually starting to buy this as a rivalry.

 

Main event of this bonus show is an intenational trios encounter, previewing 2 separate bouts for the following evening's show in New York, with Alex Koslov & American Wolves (Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards) vs. Rocky Romero & The Briscoes. A bit like a WWE TV go-home show prior to a PPV, then, I guess. I can see this one being rather quite good, actually. This one also marks Edwards' first ROH bout since 'Glory By Honor' in September, due to his arm injury. Opened with, and acknowledged as, a battle of former stablemates (and ROH tag champions) in the No Remore Corps, as Richards and Romero engaged in a pseudo-MMA/UWFI/BattlArts-style exchange of kicks, strikes and holds. Match moved along at a fast pace, always moving, always something happening. Very watchable and a lot of fun. What can be said with the smaller crowd is that wrestlers across the entire show didn't take things too seriously, making for much more entertaining fare than the usual often ultra-serious-to-a-fault-ROH. Breaks down into a 6-way, each taking it in turns to do stuff. The closing section was very much lucha libre style, as two wrestlers (Wolves) were taken out of the running by 2 dives (from the Briscoes), leaving the two rival captains (Romero & Koslov) alone in the ring to battle it out for the final win. Nearfalls a plenty between 2 who know each other very well from their battles over the new (at this time) AAA Cruiserweight Title. The Wolves and the Briscoes actually get up and brawl all the way backstage while this is going on. Romero hits a knock-out kick on kneeling Koslov for the win, bringing Jay and Mark back to celebrate. Really good match, which made me eager to see both respective bouts on tomorrow's 'Final Battle 2009'.

 

Overall thoughts can be summed up with what I said earlier - as a standalone release this would have been very disappointing indeed. No particular standout matches (though several good ones), no significant happenings, not much of anything. As bonus footage on another DVD release, however, this was actually rather enjoyable, with plenty of fun to be had. A step-up from other ROH bonus content, this was actually worthwhile sitting through and defintiely adds value to the 'Final Battle 2009' package as a whole.