General politics discussion thread

[David]

Banking giant HSBC today said it more than doubled half-year profits to 11.1 billion US dollars (

[Dynamite Duane]

Anyone else been watching the programme about the Queen and her relationships with the PMs? It's been pretty good.

 

There's also been a documentary on More4 about 1984 and the coal miners strike, along with one on the Brighton Bomb. The impact of the explosion missed Thatcher by inches apparently.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Dynamite Duane

[David]

There's also been a documentary on More4 about 1984 and the coal miners strike, along with one on the Brighton Bomb. The impact if the explosion missed Thatcher by inches apparently.

A real shame, that.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Has anyone watched 'Capitalism; A Love Story'?

 

I hadn't seen any Moore film before, and from this one I get that he's as equally inclined to bow to populist propaganda as the rightwing idealists he chooses to decry. That said, the piece on 'Dead Peasants Insurance' had me in fucking pieces. That scene with the family who'd lost it's mother, with the husband who'd near bankrupted himself funding a funeral with no help at all, whilst walmart pocketed 81,000 US dollars from her death? ...That's just fucking institutionalised insanity. Seeing his young disabled lad crying for his mum was it for me.

 

The workers at Republic who'd lost their jobs, and then refused severance packages when the bank refused the parent company credit was harsh. That hispanic man who broke down into tears nearly had me going, too...

Edited August 10, 2010 by d-d-d-dAz

[KrAzY]

Yeah I've seen that film. I thought it was good overall. It was the first time Moore had put his Christian faith into one of his movies, He discussed whether Capitalism is a sin and whether Jesus was/would be a capitalist.

[David]

A British National Party leadership contest has ended after three candidates hoping to challenge Nick Griffin failed to win enough support.

 

None of the candidates got the required 840 signatures of long-term party members needed to force a full ballot.

 

Pub landlord Derek Adams got four votes, London Assembly member Richard Barnbrook received 23 and ex-national elections officer Eddy Butler got 214.

 

Mr Griffin received 995 nominations so will stay as leader.

 

He has been in that job since 1999, Mr Griffin has said he intends to stand down by 2013.

 

The anti-immigration party has no seats at Westminster although it has two Members of the European Parliament and a member of the London Assembly.

 

It won 1.9% of the UK vote at the general election in May - up from 0.7% of the vote it got in 2005.

 

Under the terms of the BNP's constitution, a leadership election is called every year.

 

A total of 4,200 BNP members were eligible to vote at this stage, according to a statement on the BNP website.

 

The challengers had to secure the nominating signatures of 20% - or at least 840 signatures - of those who have been party members for at least two years to force a full vote.

 

The four candidates had each posted short manifestos on the BNP website.

 

Mr Griffin said: "In 10 years, our activists and I have turned this party from a bad political joke into a major factor in British politics. There is still much to be done, and it is best done under proven, principled and visionary leadership, without futile, time-wasting elections."

 

Mr Butler said he believed the party needed "a complete relaunch in order to survive", promising to implement "changes to make the party more democratically accountable" and said he would "bring all functions such as the call centre back to the mainland and close the Belfast office".

 

Mr Adams said "our vote increased at the general election and we have more enquiries and a larger membership than ever", he pledged to be "a clean-hands candidate who will be a fresh face".

 

Mr Barnbrook argued that he had the "integrity, impartiality and lack of self-interest that will command the loyalty and solidarity of all the membership" and said he could "end the strife caused by this destructive, divisive and bitter campaign".

 

In May, Mr Griffin said he would stand down as leader by 2013 to focus on his campaign to be re-elected as an MEP for North West England in 2014.

Source: The BBC

[d-d-d-dAz]

Bullshit political prejudices decided not just international reaction but mainstream media coverage of the Pakistan disaster, which has meant less than a tenth of what was raised for Haiti has been raised in aid money.

 

So, the World Bank has stepped in and 'loaned' Pakistan 900 million US dollars. Which means that as a bi-product of Western government generated apathy, and even hostility, to their country the land that will be cultivated will be used not to feed the starving people of Pakistan, but to act as the catalyst for export-led growth providing already saturated Western markets with even cheaper produce. So, whilst the people of Pakistan are starving, the West gets cheaper products and commodities to dampen the effects of recession/potential deflation and the World Bank gets to keep its grubby hands in the back pockets of Pakistan, robbing them of their resources and equity indefinitely.

 

It's like consoling a rape victim with a light spanking.

[David]

Bullshit political prejudices decided not just international reaction but mainstream media coverage of the Pakistan disaster, which has meant less than a tenth of what was raised for Haiti has been raised in aid money.

 

So, the World Bank has stepped in and 'loaned' Pakistan 900 million US dollars. Which means that as a bi-product of Western government generated apathy, and even hostility, to their country the land that will be cultivated will be used not to feed the starving people of Pakistan, but to act as the catalyst for export-led growth providing already saturated Western markets with even cheaper produce. So, whilst the people of Pakistan are starving, the West gets cheaper products and commodities to dampen the effects of recession/potential deflation and the World Bank gets to keep its grubby hands in the back pockets of Pakistan, robbing them of their resources and equity indefinitely.

 

It's like consoling a rape victim with a light spanking.

It's posts like that which leave me scratching my head as to why you're an actual member of the Labour party.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I'm close to not being, if i'm honest.

 

I'm very much a McDonnell Labour member, who thought that the best way to bring about change was from inside the mechanism rather than from the outside looking in. It didn't take long for me to become disenfranchised, especially the more I learn about the party.

 

Though, one thing I would say is that I find it very hard to find a party representative of my views. There doesn't seem to exist a proper, authoritative liberal socialist voice in this country. I flirted with the Liberals under Kennedy, and then decided to give Labour a chance (though, admittedly, I joined for a

[David]

I'm very much a McDonnell Labour member, who thought that the best way to bring about change was from inside the mechanism rather than from the outside looking in. It didn't take long for me to become disenfranchised, especially the more I learn about the party.

I've heard that idea mentioned many times, and it simply wouldn't work.

 

The Labour party is too far along to allow anyone to change it.

 

It sounds to me as though you're a Socialist who is longing for a return to the Labour Party before the clause IV debacle.

 

If that's the case, the Labour Party isn't for you.

[d-d-d-dAz]

If I may, can I ask where your particular allegiances lie?

 

Also, I think the problem with the 'left' in this country is that it is so divided that the chance for any real political overhaul is limited. And, as you say, post-clause IV has left the primary vehicle for, albeit watered down, socialist policy in tatters as a large majority of members and MP's have views that are in many ways interchangeable with the modern conservatives. I mean, if you need any clear indication as to the mentality of the men at the top of the tree in the Labour Party, look at Alan Milburn (who before resigning was a 'future Labour leader' in the making) who has returned to government for David Cameron.

 

*EDIT* Thinking about it, I'm going to label myself a 'longest suicide note in history' socialist. The Labour party of '83, that's what I want.

Edited August 18, 2010 by d-d-d-dAz

[David]

If I may, can I ask where your particular allegiances lie?

Left Wing Socialist.

 

And you're right, the left is fractured beyond belief.

 

However, in a strange way the current Government may just be the set-up needed to give them all a shake, so to speak.

[d-d-d-dAz]

The problem is that there isn't a political vehicle to pool the resources of the left.

 

The individual parties and pressure groups are united in their hatred of the right, but equally united in their mistrust of one another. Electorally, a major shift towards an overriding socialist brand, with which the individual parties could come together and fight elections is the best chance of gaining a foothold. Even a small recognition of the left electorally has the potential to jar the mainstream. For example, if you could form a, for arguments sake, 'DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM' institution that bound together the resources of the many different marginalised parties of the left and democratically elected candidates for national elections, but then allowed the separate parties to act as internal campaign groups within the organization, you wouldn't necessarily have efficiency but you'd not splinter the vote either.

[David]

The problem is that there isn't a political vehicle to pool the resources of the left.

 

The individual parties and pressure groups are united in their hatred of the right, but equally united in their mistrust of one another. Electorally, a major shift towards an overriding socialist brand, with which the individual parties could come together and fight elections is the best chance of gaining a foothold.

This is as close as were going to get at present.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I notice a tendency towards The Socialist Party on that site, as opposed the SWP. Which is strange, as the SWP seems to be more prominent round these parts.