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Best British Wrestler of 2008


tiger_rick
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Best British Wrestler of 2008?  

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There is NO WAY that Lionheart is even close to a Dave Moralez, Spud, Mark Haskins or Zack Sabre Jr....I sense some patriotic bias here ;)

 

I've only seen Moralez once and he was a fat, useless mess. Spud is just not believable in any way. I've not seen the Rock Star thing, but I'm still struggling to buy it. I've not seen Haskins or Sabre Jr.

 

Lionheart, on the other hand, has had a bunch of really good matches, looks good, has tremendous charisma and can talk a bit too. But obviously it's just Leon fucking Jackson all over again...despite Lionheart being a featured performer for 1PW as much as he's a top hand for every company in Scotland. You know Scotland, right? The place where small independent wrestling companies can draw what we call "a crowd"? I know it's a term you Anglos aren't very familiar with. :rolleyes:

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There is NO WAY that Lionheart is even close to a Dave Moralez, Spud, Mark Haskins or Zack Sabre Jr....I sense some patriotic bias here ;)

 

I've only seen Moralez once and he was a fat, useless mess. Spud is just not believable in any way. I've not seen the Rock Star thing, but I'm still struggling to buy it. I've not seen Haskins or Sabre Jr.

 

Lionheart, on the other hand, has had a bunch of really good matches, looks good, has tremendous charisma and can talk a bit too. But obviously it's just Leon fucking Jackson all over again...despite Lionheart being a featured performer for 1PW as much as he's a top hand for every company in Scotland. You know Scotland, right? The place where small independent wrestling companies can draw what we call "a crowd"? I know it's a term you Anglos aren't very familiar with. :rolleyes:

 

You've only seen Moralez once, although 1. being fat isn't a bad thing in itself, and he's not that fat, and 2. I think you'll find most people on here will tell you that they've seen Moralez in at least two or three classics this year.

 

Spud not being believable, well - most people usually have no better reason to give than that he's small, but the guy is definitely one of the best workers in the UK right now. His strikes and intensity are believable, I find, and generally speaking, I've seen him hold crowds in the palm of his hand in places like IPW:UK and 1PW.

 

As for the whole Scotland thing - quite frankly, Kenny, I've seen quite a bit of ScotWres, and I honestly don't think it's all that wonderful to the point where it's any better than stuff down here, and I have to say: a lot of the stuff I read on here really does sound like patriotic bias. I've not seen Lionheart and can't comment, but I've seen Drew Galloway, who's got great potential, but then I've seen a few others, and I really have to wonder where you guys pull it from, because I'm not seeing it. A lot of the people I've seen you and Haraga talk about are really over-rated, and it mystifies me as to what your criteria are. I'm not saying this to be harsh, but the whole Shitarse 50 thing for me really did highlight this whole thing; you guys have just as many shitarses as England does, and yet you only had one in the entire damn list. Yes, you had the Bawbag Fifteen, but, in all honesty, it had a whole undertone of "ach, these are our shit guys, but they're still of a higher level than anything that comes out of England". Maybe that wasn't what was intended, but that's what it felt like.

 

The whole "drawing a crowd" thing - keep something in mind: Scotland has, at most, 8 promotions of any note. England has at least 40. Of course ScotWres shows are going to draw better - they've still got the novelty factor.

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You've only seen Moralez once, although 1. being fat isn't a bad thing in itself, and he's not that fat, and 2. I think you'll find most people on here will tell you that they've seen Moralez in at least two or three classics this year.

 

I'm just saying that I saw nothing in him. Maybe he was having an off-night, but plenty of people reckoned that match was a "classic" so I dunno. And of course being fat isn't a bad thing. I'm a huge fan of Bam Bam and Vader and I loves my Samoans. I just didn't see any of that with Moralez.

 

Spud not being believable, well - most people usually have no better reason to give than that he's small, but the guy is definitely one of the best workers in the UK right now. His strikes and intensity are believable, I find, and generally speaking, I've seen him hold crowds in the palm of his hand in places like IPW:UK and 1PW.

 

I've seen Spud a few times now and he's not impressed me any of those times. I can imagine him being an obnoxious prick heel could be entertaining, but I've not seen it.

 

As for the whole Scotland thing - quite frankly, Kenny, I've seen quite a bit of ScotWres, and I honestly don't think it's all that wonderful to the point where it's any better than stuff down here, and I have to say: a lot of the stuff I read on here really does sound like patriotic bias. I've not seen Lionheart and can't comment, but I've seen Drew Galloway, who's got great potential, but then I've seen a few others, and I really have to wonder where you guys pull it from, because I'm not seeing it. A lot of the people I've seen you and Haraga talk about are really over-rated, and it mystifies me as to what your criteria are. I'm not saying this to be harsh, but the whole Shitarse 50 thing for me really did highlight this whole thing; you guys have just as many shitarses as England does, and yet you only had one in the entire damn list. Yes, you had the Bawbag Fifteen, but, in all honesty, it had a whole undertone of "ach, these are our shit guys, but they're still of a higher level than anything that comes out of England". Maybe that wasn't what was intended, but that's what it felt like.

 

Well, that's because we're racist, obviously. There aren't at least a dozen other perfectly legitimate reasons for statistical anomalies when comparing a country of 5m to a country of more than 50m.

 

And to be fair, if you've "seen quit a bit of ScotWres" and haven't seen Lionheart, I have to wonder what you've been watching. He's a main event player for every company worth watching up here and has been for almost two years. He's also had a bit of play down south, most notably for 1PW.

 

I'm (quite reasonably) proud of the fact that Scotland has a reasonably successful wrestling industry. Someone joked that Lionheart getting votes ahead of a couple of guys whom my evidence shows to be mediocre must be due to "patriotic bias". I joked back about the relative merits of "EngWres" and "ScotWres." But it's kidding on the square - just count the numbers and you know I'm right.

 

The whole "drawing a crowd" thing - keep something in mind: Scotland has, at most, 8 promotions of any note. England has at least 40. Of course ScotWres shows are going to draw better - they've still got the novelty factor.

 

England has a population more than ten times that of Scotland. Greater London's population is roughly double that of Scotland. By your maths, English companies should be able to draw double the average Scottish crowd. And it's not like Bellshill, Alloa, Irvine and the like are some massive metropolises so things are skewed by population density issues. PBW and SWA (I'm not sure about BCW) run a lot more shows than many of the most pimped promotions in England and still draw more consistently strong crowds without such a regular reliance on imported "names". Indeed, the last time I can remember that any Scottish promotion used anyone imported from further away than Kent was when BCW used a couple of guys from Alex Shane's supershows.

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As for the whole Scotland thing - quite frankly, Kenny, I've seen quite a bit of ScotWres, and I honestly don't think it's all that wonderful to the point where it's any better than stuff down here, and I have to say: a lot of the stuff I read on here really does sound like patriotic bias. I've not seen Lionheart and can't comment, but I've seen Drew Galloway, who's got great potential, but then I've seen a few others, and I really have to wonder where you guys pull it from, because I'm not seeing it. A lot of the people I've seen you and Haraga talk about are really over-rated, and it mystifies me as to what your criteria are. I'm not saying this to be harsh, but the whole Shitarse 50 thing for me really did highlight this whole thing; you guys have just as many shitarses as England does, and yet you only had one in the entire damn list. Yes, you had the Bawbag Fifteen, but, in all honesty, it had a whole undertone of "ach, these are our shit guys, but they're still of a higher level than anything that comes out of England". Maybe that wasn't what was intended, but that's what it felt like.

 

Well, that's because we're racist, obviously. There aren't at least a dozen other perfectly legitimate reasons for statistical anomalies when comparing a country of 5m to a country of more than 50m.

 

And to be fair, if you've "seen quit a bit of ScotWres" and haven't seen Lionheart, I have to wonder what you've been watching. He's a main event player for every company worth watching up here and has been for almost two years. He's also had a bit of play down south, most notably for 1PW.

 

I'm (quite reasonably) proud of the fact that Scotland has a reasonably successful wrestling industry. Someone joked that Lionheart getting votes ahead of a couple of guys whom my evidence shows to be mediocre must be due to "patriotic bias". I joked back about the relative merits of "EngWres" and "ScotWres." But it's kidding on the square - just count the numbers and you know I'm right.

 

Firstly, you can cut the "racism" thing right now; I've never once mentioned it, and I don't have a history of saying it either. I didn't make my post to attack you, as I'd like to think we get on quite well; I'm just getting a little irked by what appears to be a hint of smugness when it comes to ScotWres, particularly as I don't think it's warranted, at least when it comes to the quality of the wrestlers. By all means, be proud of the fact that Scotland's wrestling industry is doing well, but stand up and give account when asked to acknowledge you have shit wrestlers as much as England does - acting like your Shitarses don't stink is just a tad annoying. Refer to statistical anomalies if you like, but Moj wasn't asking the entire population of the country to nominate for the Fifty, and I didn't see you, Haraga, or any of the ScotWres regulars posted a single damn name.

 

Secondly, I've seen a fair bit of SWA and BCW (think I might have been a bit unlucky in not seeing Lionheart), and I stand by my point. The Clan Wars event in particular was dire.

 

As for the "numbers" - I'm not going to begrudge acclaim to a guy I haven't seen, and in his case, I will happily accept that he's deserving (and I'll do my best to catch his stuff), but the numbers argument is bullshit, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen people nominated and voted for in the past who are absolutely awful, and most of the time I get the feeling it's out of a desperation to "have" somebody they can call great as their own (and I'm talking about the whole of BritWres here, not just Scotland). The numbers element does not cut it with me, I'm afraid; as one guy's sig on here says: "People voted for Hitler, and people like Coldplay - they're not to be trusted."

 

The whole "drawing a crowd" thing - keep something in mind: Scotland has, at most, 8 promotions of any note. England has at least 40. Of course ScotWres shows are going to draw better - they've still got the novelty factor.

 

England has a population more than ten times that of Scotland. Greater London's population is roughly double that of Scotland. By your maths, English companies should be able to draw double the average Scottish crowd. And it's not like Bellshill, Alloa, Irvine and the like are some massive metropolises so things are skewed by population density issues. PBW and SWA (I'm not sure about BCW) run a lot more shows than many of the most pimped promotions in England and still draw more consistently strong crowds without such a regular reliance on imported "names". Indeed, the last time I can remember that any Scottish promotion used anyone imported from further away than Kent was when BCW used a couple of guys from Alex Shane's supershows.

 

What you fail to take into account, Kenny, is that most of England's promotions are concentrated in several areas, while other regions of the country get almost no wrestling at all. The Midlands has the greatest saturation, followed by Hampshire. There's almost no wrestling in the South-West, north Wales, Liverpool and Cumbria. The most populated areas of the UK are now so saturated, that shows do not draw the numbers Scottish shows do, and areas that haven't been killed off get almost no wrestling at all. VPW tend to do very well when they venture to the South West, SLAM do very well in Corby, SAS did well at Wolverhampton Civic Hall (now that venue's getting over-saturated), but generally speaking, there are too many dead areas, and not enough promotions down here run shows in areas screaming out for wrestling. That's definitely a minus point on the part of English promotions, but I don't think it necessarily means that the Scottish scene is being run so wonderfully. It's being run very well, but there aren't any Vince McMahons up there.

Edited by Carbomb
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