Duke

2 hours ago, Louch said:

Yeah the interim match order is 

winner of battle royal vs mox faces Tana at forbidden door and it’s that match that determines the interim title. No one gets a belt this week 

Source for.Tana? They didn't say that on the show and certainly the first few tweets etc never mentioned his name. I assumed the fact they didn't mention him meant it probably wasn't him, but I may have missed it since.

5 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

I stand corrected.

What a mess 😆

To be fair, your understanding makes more sense than what they're actually doing.

I can only assume they're setting this up this way to quickly build a baby face contender by having them win a battle royal and then beat the final boss that is Moxley before competing against TBA at forbidden door.  

If that's the plan, they can't do any better than Eddie Kingston.

8 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

Think your confused here.

The battle royal is on Wednesday.

The winner of that battle Royal faces Moxley at FD.

Whoever wins that match, will face Punk somewhere down the road.

It couldn't have been more clear to be fair.

Why Moxley goes straight to FD, I don't know.

Go read the tweet higher up the thread. It says:

WEDNESDAY on #AEWDynamite at 8/7c on TBS, we’ll kick things off with a Battle Royale to determine who faces #1 contender @JonMoxley in the Dynamite main event. The winner of Dynamite’s main event goes on to #ForbiddenDoor to challenge for the Interim #AEW World Championship!

I'm afraid you're mistaken. 3 stages: battle royal --> Moxley match --> forbidden door

It self evidently COULD have been more clear.

Just because it's been said twice in this thread and their announcement was properly confusing:

Punk hasn't vacated. There will be an interim champion in his absence. That champion will be crowned at forbidden door, not on Wednesday.

The more I think about it, the more it feels like Tony's Friday night coke binge started early because this whole thing is mental.

Why does Moxley get a free hit and not have to compete in the battle royale? In storyline, he either beats someone who's knackered or lose them. If he's going to win, just announce that he's going into forbidden door. If he's not he looks weak losing to someone who's already had a battle royale match.

They've also had to blatantly gimmick their rankings to put him in (unlike before where they were less blatant). Wardlow was 1 on Wednesday, and Mox has jumped four spaces since then. 

We have a battle royale for the right to fight Moxley for the right to fight for the belt at forbidden door. What??

If there any more argument required to get Jericho out of the booth, repeatedly screwing up the announcement is surely the last nail in the coffin. 

In terms of who wins the interim, it's surely depending on how long Punk is out. If it's only a few months I'd be tempted to give it to someone like Eddie Kingston who would then have a great story with Punk when he comes back, but if it's longer then you've got to imagine it'll be one of the established guys. 

That being said, it was interesting that Punk just mentioned two ex WWE guys as his "deserving" champs. Sows some MJF brand seeds.

Like Supes, I was deflated by the "I don't drop people on their heads" line, but otherwise I was a big fan and it's an interesting direction for the character. Criticising the ex WWE guys is going to turn him babyface, though maybe that's the point.

Miro's ongoing feud with the Lord is one of the better longer term stories in wrestling, top work.

I'm probably supposed to be bothered about Tanahashi, but I'm not. Let's see what they do to get me bothered.

Is...is that cancel culture?

53 minutes ago, Louch said:

18 months and has flown to LA for this weeks TV. Some people just have trouble accepting they got got on this. 

No issue with Athena turning up, but she'd have been better turning up with less pomp. Bivens could be a great asset, he's charismatic and can be a good mouthpiece. 

Thoroughly enjoyed the show, though I haven't got much to add based on what others have said. I am very interesting to see what they do next with Page. He had a moment of weakness that cost him, but he needs to move away from the title for a bit. Presumably MJF next would be the plan?  Maybe House of Black?

I'm so glad the internet wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now in November 1997. 

7 minutes ago, Louch said:

It’s not an argument, it’s just how it is. It takes a tremendous amount to put wrestling fans off going to shows or parting with money. Refunding a few fans at a meet and great isn’t worth this proportion of response. Chill out 

This is honestly the level of discussion I'd expect on Facebook. 

3 minutes ago, Louch said:

All the times wwe have done it and they still sell out stadiums. A few fans given refunds at a meet and greet isn’t gonna destroy anyones business. Take a step back and look at how things really go in wrestling 

Just to be clear, your argument is that WWE haven't turned off fans by treating the fans badly.

I say again, good grief.

19 minutes ago, Louch said:

Wrestling fans are quite well known for not going back to things that have let them down…..yeah that argument holds up . Fall for it all you want, not for me Clive. 

Good grief.

25 minutes ago, Louch said:

If people got a full refund they haven’t been ripped off. And fans being let down by a guy whose whole character is you people are beneath be hardly damages either side 

Except they might decide to not go back next time. It would really be a terrible idea to do this as a work. Some people might not buy DON because they've heard MJF won't be there. Not many, but it's still the opposite of what an angle does.

It makes no business sense to be a work. WON has multiple sources that it's not a work. It's not a work.

MJF will hopefully end up wrestling tonight. If he does, it doesn't mean it was a work.

it feels, mostly, like a Jeff Jarrett situation where he thinks he's got them over a barrel and is using it to leverage for loads more money because he's the biggest draw for tonight. How TK handles it will show how much he's a proper owner and how much he's a money mark.

I think this pay per view really needed Derby Allin Vs Kyle O' Reilly. It's the final piece of the 1000 piece Jigsaw.

I guess this Punk Hangman feud is kind of the extension of the Punk Kingston feud, that he's not who he says he is. 

I've got faith in this story basically because it seems clear that while TK is the booker, the guys have a lot of freedom to drive their own stories, and both Punk and Hangman have form for being able to pull deeper narrative off.

ATT and Sammy clearly have no idea what they're doing.

18 minutes ago, Infinity Land said:

Nice line and the Twitter/Reddit post that popualrised it the other week had it pointed out that's just Dynamite. Since they had about 20 minutes of coverage with the Battle of Belts match. With other appearances on Rampage.

This isn't the gotcha you think it is.

But yes I'm really interested to see the seeds planted by the Hangman promo. I think it's a foreshadow rather than something we're meant to get now, and I look forward to seeing where it goes. I'm not certain if I'd have Hanger lose this time, but rather next time where Punk shows the nasty piece of work he is.

Just now, WyattSheepMask said:

Obviously not, even a blind man could see I was being facetious.

But you can bet this wasn’t getting announced today had the findings of the Sue Gray Report been more favourable 

Of course it was. 

Could they have announced it on Monday or Tuesday? I'm sure. Could they have announced it a couple of weeks ago? Maybe. The chancellor mentioned this was something they were considering a couple of weeks ago, I'd be surprised if they didn't have it costed to some extent by then. But they'll have had a decent idea when the Gray report was going to come out and known it wasn't going to look good so probably held it off until now. They won't have moved it up or only decided to do it in response to yesterday's reaction. 

1 hour ago, WyattSheepMask said:

So this has magically become possible since yesterday, what a fucking surprise 

Do you think they figured out the mechanics of this major policy in 24 hours?

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

But that isn't a contradiction. No one here is suggesting that AEW should consist entirely of non-WWE talent. Once again, though, it's about being selective. Bringing in - and pushing - people like Punk, Danielson, Moxley and even Jericho is a no-brainer. Punk and MJF are easily the hottest acts the company has right now, so it makes absolute sense to make one of them champion. 

That doesn't have any real impact on the rest of the card, though.

Firstly, you're making an assumption on Matt Hardy, and there's no evidence to suggest the team won't be used after the PPV. 

But putting that aside - you're right, some of these wrestlers are getting TV time, but my point isn't so much that they're not, it's that they're interesting, and the former WWE acts getting featured are not. In addition, the wrestlers in question aren't getting pushed as prominently as they would had the ex-WWE guys not come in. For example, would Dynamite be more entertaining if Ethan Page, Ricky Starks or Penta was receiving Adam Cole's push? Or if The Acclaimed (or Max Caster, in the absence of Bowens) was pushed as a top level act? There are other examples I could give, but hopefully you can see my point. 

It is though, because the best way to build your show around a certain group is making them the relevant champions. For the record, I think Punk probably should beat Hangman, but I can also see a good way where he doesn't. 

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And the fact the other belts are on "homegrown" talent, doesn't change the fact that Dynamite, at the moment, heavily features acts who feel like WWE cast-offs, acts who don't exactly help AEW feel like its own entity. If more of them were connecting and feeling fresh, people wouldn't make making this point, but I don't think it's hard to argue that they are actually taking TV time away from acts who are connecting, and who do feel fresh. 

That's my point though. The problem isn't that they're ex-WWE, it's that they're not working. It wouldn't matter where Andrade came from, for e.g, because he's not working. Black isn't working because he's been in storyline purgatory for months and building a feud around a cheerleader that no one cares about.  

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Firstly, you're making an assumption on Matt Hardy, and there's no evidence to suggest the team won't be used after the PPV. 

Absolutely, but I think it's a reasonable one to make, because they seem to be rushing straight into this Bucks match and Jeff is increasingly not moving well. I doubt we'll see them as a pushed act after this. You're right though, I have no evidence for it.

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But putting that aside - you're right, some of these wrestlers are getting TV time, but my point isn't so much that they're not, it's that they're interesting, and the former WWE acts getting featured are not. In addition, the wrestlers in question aren't getting pushed as prominently as they would had the ex-WWE guys not come in. For example, would Dynamite be more entertaining if Ethan Page, Ricky Starks or Penta was receiving Adam Cole's push? Or if The Acclaimed (or Max Caster, in the absence of Bowens) was pushed as a top level act? There are other examples I could give, but hopefully you can see my point. 

I'm not sure many talent would do well by coming in, feuding with the best friends, getting repeatedly smashed by the champion and then flailing about with nothing to do other than the not very good Owen Hart tournament. 

I definitely think the Acclaimed could be doing more, but I'm fairly happy with him waiting for Bowens to get back to do that. Ethan Page probably could too, but Starks and Penta are featured acts on the show. If they're not clicking for you, it's not because of Adam Cole, or Andrade or Matt Hardy, it's because their storylines aren't working. 

I guess what I'm saying is I think "too many ex-WWE guys are on TV" is overly simplistic. Too many guys who aren't over are on tv, irrespective of where they came from. 

9 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I don't think it's contradictory - there's nothing wrong with signing WWE wrestlers, but there's something to be said for being selective. Initially, ex-WWE wrestlers were coming in sporadically, and this let people like Brodie Lee, Miro, Pac, FTR, Jon Moxley and even Shawn Spears and Jake Hager establish their own identities, and really remove themselves from their previous life as WWE wrestlers. Who looks at Jon Moxley and thinks "Dean Ambrose" anymore? Heck, who looks at Shawn Spears and thinks "Tye Dillinger"?

Punk, Danielson and Samoa Joe are no-brainer signings. But outside of that, you could part ways with almost any recent AEW signing, and the show would become better as a result. For example, would anyone really say a single show featuring Keith Lee, Jay Lethal, Andrade, Matt Hardy and Cole, Fish and O'Reilly is a more appealing prospect than a show featuring Ricky Starks, Powerhouse Hobbs, Hook, The Acclaimed, Penta, Fenix, Jurassic Express and The Gunn Club?

 

Forgive me, but that's not what I said. The contradiction isn't "put the title on punk" and "stop signing WWE guys" it's "put the title on punk" and "build the show around your homegrown talent". 4 of the 5 belts AEW have at the moment are on talent that feels like it's primarily theirs, and the one that isn't is probably their least prominent.  

You're kind of proving my point in the second paragraph, with the exception of the acclaimed (one of whom is injured, right?) and the Gunn club, who I don't think are ready, all of those talents are on the pay per view in featured matches.  As of this moment, Keith Lee is in a tag team, Jay Lethal isn't wrestling on Double or Nothing, Andrade is being defeatured, Matt Hardy is in a tag team in a swansong type of match after which we won't see much of them, Cole is on the show, Fish isn't and I'm expecting O'Reilly to lose to Joe and therefore not be in a match on the show.  Those guys are on dynamite, sure, but so are the second list you've mentioned. 

As always in threads like these, there's some astute observation and some weird, and occasionally a mixture of the two. Asking them to build more around their homegrown guys AND give Punk the title is a little contradictory, and reveals that we only have a problem with ex-WWE guys if they're ones we don't like. 

As much as I quite like them all as acts, reuniting Undisputed Era has been a mistake. That stable had very definitely run its course in WWE, and while I'd have been fine with ReDragon being a thing, and Cole being a thing, the three of them together is too much Deja Vu. I think they're the only reason that it feels very ex-NXT at the moment, as all the other old WWE guys are at least doing something slightly different, but those guys are all over the show and doing what they've always done. I had some interest when it looked like Cole was trying to play both sides, but now they're just a unified act because Kenny is out longer than they realised.

It's actually really hard to not sign a lot of ex-WWE talent at the moment, because for a little while they hoovered all the best talent up. That being said, I don't think anyone has a problem with FTR, Moxley, Danielson, Punk, PAC, or Jericho (or at least not for that reason); It's Andrade, Black, Cole, Nese and Lee (and I guess the Hardys. It wasn't really a problem when just Matt was there, but adding Jeff hasn't helped). The problem isn't that they're ex-WWE, it's that they're ex-WWE and haven't shown us anything else. I still have some hope that Lee will be able to get back to his previous levels, but an extended run in the tag division with someone like Swerve will help him loads, and I think House of Black will be fine when they start feuding with someone else other than the 6 people they've spent all eternity with, but Andrade needs a fairly drastic rethink and Nese feels like he could replaced by lots of different people. As he always does.

I don't think that the roster size is a detriment though. Or at least not inherently. AEW is endeavouring to avoid falling into a rematch hole like WWE has, so they need a big roster to be able to do that. What they're doing well is cycling guys in and out for a bit so as to give them longer screen time. The focal points are clear: MJF, Punk, Mox, Jericho, Bryan, Page, Jungle Boy, Britt Baker, Jade Cargill.  The Bucks, for eg, were less of a thing on TV for a little while after losing the tag belts. Varsity blondes had a cycle on for a bit, they're now cycled off.  Even Sami, who is still on TV, is mostly only on Rampage at the moment. Derby Allin is still around, but he's less of a central character than he has been. I think that's a good thing, personally, it means double or nothing has some fresh matches on it. 

That being said....

There are some patterns they've fallen into. The interrupted interviews. The low blows. The lights out debuts. All of those could do with some freshening up and some changes. The Owen Hart tournament has felt like a bit of a mess all the way through. But the biggest thing remains the women. I don't really know what's wrong, at this point. Having Serena Deeb be Thunder Rosa's next opponent was the obvious choice, but I think forcing both women to do lots of talking has been such an error. I also think Supes is right that they need to have more shorter term storylines with clear pay off.

I'm still enjoying AEW every week, I feel like I can stay up to date with all the stories and there's a good mix of a few different things on there that I can enjoy. Their ratings are still doing well, they have characters I'm invested in and I can see some great opportunities for the future.

They do need to bin off the nonces though.

Oh and push the acclaimed.

I'm much more bullish about this PPV than most, and I'm really looking forward to it.

Punk v Page will be really good and that story could go in loads of different directions.

Death triangle Vs house of black hasn't been a good story (presumably due to fenixs injury) but the match will be cracking

Wardlow Vs MJF is really exciting

sports entertainers Vs wrestlers will be chaos and insanity.

Three big man little man teams in the tag triple threat should lead to loads of combinations, and AEW don't do tons of triple threats will be good. 

The men's Hart final will be good assuming it's Joe v Cole, which I'm fairly sure it will be. I think they're telegraphing the Kyle o Reilly finish too hard.

Im more and more onboard with hookhausen now, and mark sterling is great value for entertainment. 

In all, I think it'll be a great show 

1 hour ago, Butch2000 said:

Actually I did quite enjoy booing God Save The Queen with 24,000 others. That was probably the highlight.

Bet you wouldn't boo it if she were a man.

Trying to wrap my brain around a trip to a wetherspoons being a highlight any day.

Thoughts and prayers, butchi, thoughts and prayers