Lenin

He was brilliant live in the town halls etc. But for WWE he's going to have to work a bit harder to impress folks. There's nothing physically that he does that is radically different from anyone else and that will be hard to overcome. And ultimately the booking will make or break him. If they want to make a star they will need to take a long term view to build him and he'll need to absolutely nail his segments to get people onside.

Sure did...not sure it's broken the $100 mark yet...$70 in 17 days originally. Any idea it was definitely him? He's a bit like Foley in his desperation.

It reminded me of some of the Raws in the mid to late 90's. Big time feel and was so different to what we usually get week on week.

Yeah in August last year he told fans on Twitter to stop asking for retweets for Cancer Charities that had helped their family members as "they are a total scam and do more damage than good."

He also did a blog on the subject a few years ago. Big conspiracy by big drug companies.

http://www.stormwrestling.com/092913.html

Bit OTT.

Yeah, but the "form" will be because whomevers given him a script saying "blah blah blah" and the gist is to make it clear you're the victor. He's not going into business for himself. Not even Cena would get away with that, especially as it would have happened so many times. Anyway, most of the time during the Owens feud his promos were about how great and how much of a challenge to him Owens is and how he's some real competition, hence the one upmanship with open challenges. Cena's go power, but he can't just go out there with a live mic and do as he wants. Read the formats when they're leaked. He's got a script like everyone else. Yeah, I imagine h'es allowed to deviate more than most, but he's not going to just be burying people because he can. Why would he bury people all the time off his own back, when he'll job to anyone at anytime to put people over? That makes no sense to me, I'm afraid.

Fair points there. Now I know where to read I'll keep my eye out for the formats hahaha. I like Cena a lot, always have. I don't like what he does in a lot of promos so perhaps I do attribute that to him rather than the creative as I assumed as he's dominated for so long he can do what he wants.

With regards another point above I merely paraphrased from another thread where someone said Cena was going for work rate to make the others look bad. Thats not me saying he's insecure and its not something I think he is doing so again don't try and lump me in the crowd that hated HHH and now hates Cena because I've been fans of both from the beginning.

Didn't say I liked them either but you're trying to label me as one of those fans obviously. I think he didn't have to call him a joke. I think Cena's got form on the mic. That's it.

That he stole the title? No need to call him a joke in my opinion. Obviously everyone disagrees.

So Cena did more damage to Rollins' career on Monday than he did to Owens' career on Sunday?[/q

 

If you don't agree, fine. Said it already.

For news anything but the Wrestling Observer itself and not a paste job on a newz site where they add things or fuck things up (found at www.F4Wonline.com), PWInsider, Prowrestling.net as of these days and (possibly) the Torch will get any "newz" will get your post roundly scoffed at. If people post using Lords of Pain as a source, for example, a few of us nearly have heart attacks of hate.

 

With him "taking his slating too far", perhaps you'd like to address my view on it a few posts up?

I personally think that Cena does have a lot of reign with his promos, in the same way Punk did and HHH does. That's not an unreasonable assumption. Does he intentionally go out to bury his opponents? Part of me thinks he does. To protect his position. If people are claiming he's upped his in ring work to highlight the poorer work of others to protect himself I think he'd do the same on the mic.

Yeah he's a company guy and yeah McMahon has sent folk out to bat with agendas. My other overall point, lost in all of the previous posts, is that there must be someone (I'd of thought HHH) in behind the scenes with enough experience to see the missed opportunities at building credible faces and the damage it is doing to the overall product. I'm not blaming Cena as I know the booking has a lot to do with it.

Just think he could take more care on the mic. Yeah Rollins is a chicken shit heel but he should not be called a joke. Undermines his win at Mania, yes he's not been booked great but he shouldn't be called a joke by the biggest guy in the company. Doing that doesn't help Rollins or the title.

 

Fair point re: not having a face to chase the belt. Could owens have been the anti-hero they wanted Reigns to be though?

 

 

Well it'd involve him turning babyface two months in after one feud, and going from winning the US title one night to becoming the challenger for the World title the next. And then at SummerSlam, he either wins the one belt and discards the other, or he gets buried in his first big match as a face. Is he allowed to get buried by Rollins because Rollins isn't Cena?

I said I felt Cena buried Rollins on the mic. I said KO losing to Cena will do him a tremendous amount of damage which, based on recent history, creative will struggle to salvage him from. I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting my points or not but I didn't say Cena buried Owens.

Cheers for that. I knew LOP was a no no from reactions on here. Bear with and I'll scroll back and see.

 

No one bigger than Cena to beat so he's lost the big feud to have.

 

 

In which case, where would beating Cena have taken him? To fight Seth Rollins for the big belt at SummerSlam? There's zero sense at all in beating Cena only to then drop down to Cesaro, Ziggler and co anyway, so what do you think Owens would have done with the win?

 

This is the back end of the boo-hooing about Roman Reigns winning the Rumble. Now a baddie has the belt, and a baddie has the briefcase. WWE needs babyface world title challengers, not heels. It's fucked it for any new heels beating Cena en route to the top at the moment.

 

411 reported yesterday

 

Oh dear.

I didn't boo hoo Reigns at any point, I think they did him a favour by switching as I doubt he'd recover from the backlash. Cena had the character, attitude and bloody mindedness to power through. Reigns doesn't have the charisma that Cena had when he first came on the scene.

Fair point re: not having a face to chase the belt. Could owens have been the anti-hero they wanted Reigns to be though?

And as far as 411 goes I don't know what's good or bad, always read the roundtables on there so never ventured further afield. Suggestions welcomed.

 

What I don't like, and many on here have commented over the years along the same lines, he comes out and buries people on the mic first chance he gets. He gets free reign and doesn't use it appropriately in my opinion.

 

 

You've been a member less than a month, have you lurked all these years or are you on a second account? I'm not sure many have made that comment about Cena to be honest, because it's pretty much factually incorrect. Cena puts over his opponents in his promos far better than anybody else in the company. Yes, he will point out the negative characteristics of the heels he faces, this is basic storytelling.

Read the forums for ten years or so, and now that I'm watching fairly regularly decided to sign up. Few mates post on here and have done for a while, not had an account before. Tried ton sign up about 4 years ago but system kept crashing and never got further than that.

There's basic storytelling and then there's him taking his slating too far. Again just my opinion.

 

Not the first to die a death and Owens won't be the last.

 

 

If you're thick enough to consider Owens so far on the main roster as "dying a death" then you're probably never going to be happy with anything ever in wrestling.

Far from thick so give it a rest. You disagree, fine. I'm saying he will die a death in all likelihood based on their track record over the last few years. No one bigger than Cena to beat so he's lost the big feud to have. I'm not blaming Cena, I think he's been under-rated for most of his run.

What I don't like, and many on here have commented over the years along the same lines, he comes out and buries people on the mic first chance he gets. He gets free reign and doesn't use it appropriately in my opinion.

As with most things, we will see what transpires. I will be very surprised if WWE break with recent tradition and have something worthwhile for him. 411 reported yesterday that the booking team are trying to hang him out to try which if I were HHH, I'd be trying to do something about.

Agree that's an issue. But he's lost the big feud to have in WWE which conditions you to expect a nothing feud. No rub, no title, it will just be another midcard nothing feud and the amount of work to make him relevant when they next decide to move him up the card has proved beyond them so far with Ryback, Wyatt and Rusev.

Rusev is turning shit into gold without much help from creative but it's early days.

LOL constructive as always. Not the first to die a death and Owens won't be the last. The loss does more damage in the long term and it's nigh on impossible to get anyone to care if you don't beat Cena. One feud loss every few years to give a newbie a chance wouldn't do him or the merch sales any harm and it might just give them a chance at building someone to replace their flogged horse.

I read that too. Carried over into Raw as well. Interesting times.

I'm not saying all the heels. Wyatt is the main casualty in the last year or so.

I know hhh isn't in total control, I just think that with his experience, with his position in the family, he might see the damage it does and be able to limit it.

Just my opinion, Cena is phenomenal but he gets a Mic in his hand and lays waste to all and sundry and I think in most cases it is unnecessarily harmful.

Don't know anything about HHH/DUNN but if true surely HHH would have a word with the old man about his proteges getting killed in their first big feud out of NXT?

His barrier jump the night before had me in shock. He must genuinely be the hardest case there ever had. Impressive on so many levels.

Why arent people in this thread raving about the Undertaker and Lesnar brawl? It might have been the best thing on Raw all year. I was buzzing watching it. It was magic.

I thought it was great. The crowd were all for lesnar destroying Taker which was great to see. Does hint at shenanigans though because ultimately lesnar should annihilate him which then leaves questions about the retirement angle.

With regards Cena I have never suggested he was HHH at any point. He does wreck up and coming heels on the mic wich makes them look stupid. Him calling Seth a joke does more damage than the likes of Reigns because he is the benchmark and has the kind of sway where what he says is probably what he actually thinks.

My issue is with the likes of HHH, who should know better, allowing it to happen. For all the praise he gets for NXT, he seems oblivious to the fact that new heels end up floundering after a needless Cena win. The booking is questionable. Cena has enough experience and sway to stand up to the booking from time to time. He doesn't need the title to go after Seth. Owens could have been super hot. Now he's going to have to fight twice as hardnot to turn into Wyatt.

 

 

Yeah early days I guess. It would be easier to list the opponents he hasn't buried on the Mic.

 

Are you on the wind up? That's a ludicrous statement.

What's he supposed to say, given Seth Rollins' character - which he plays very wel - is essentially a snivelling, cowardly heel?

Yeah total wind up because Cena has never done that ever like.

Yeah early days I guess. It would be easier to list the opponents he hasn't buried on the Mic.

Looks like it's the full bhuna with Taker's retirement. Opening promo, multiple appearances throughout. Just glad the crowd went for Lesnar. They want blood and it would be great if they gave it to them full circle in the HIATC.

He's coming along, during his RAW match tonight the rope bit looked OK and the crowd was into it. Probably more to do with it being a good crowd for a change.

Oh well looks like Seth's reign will be over shortly. Once Taker retires Cena should take the gimmick over. How many burials is that he's clocked up now on the Mic?

Calling the company's Champion a joke? Love him in the ring but he just doesn't help himself with crap like that.

Good to see an old fashioned rammy though. And the crowd were hot for Lesnar. Best live crowd I've seen for a while.

Lesnar being cheered!