Mr Butternut Squash

Watched Final Battle earlier on, first time I've ever watched ROH. I enjoyed the Briscoes, seemed like likeable hill billy scamps. A shame to learn that they're cretins.

I was just about to post that - the general consensus over the last few pages is absolutely spot on. Wrestling is for kids - Cena is as great for them as Hogan was for kids in the 80s/90s. Cena's character isn't my cup of tea, but then I'm a 30-something male who really should have grown out of this now. If the WWE were catering their product to get money out of people like me, they'd go bankrupt in 6 months.

Genuine question, is there any proof of this? I mean I'm sure I've heard that the majority of their audience are still in the 16-35 range. There needs to be a middle ground. There's no reason that they can't put a bit more thought in to what they're doing whilst maintaining the kid demographic. Give me Dr Who not the Tweeenies.

Saw that earlier. Heart warming stuff.

For me, Bret is a good example of a guy that was a decent and believable person.

 

Since we appear to be talking real life rather than pro wrestling persona, it needs to be pointed out that by his own admissions The Excellence of Sexecution has been far from decent.

I was talking about wrestling persona.

See, I really like Cena because he comes off as being decent. I like decent people. He does what's right and all that jazz, and that's what I like from people on an interpersonal level. I don't like blowhard smelly whinging smartarse cunts like CM Punk, I like good people like John Cena.

CM punk comes across as a twat there's no denying that and his face run was terrible. But at least when he talked shit to the heels it was for the crap that they do not for what they looked like. It's been a while since his run so I might not be completely accurate with that. The point is Cena's only 'decent' when he chooses. For me, Bret is a good example of a guy that was a decent and believable person.

I totally disagree with the person who said that Cena's believable. That's his biggest problem. It seemed like they were going to do something interesting with him on the back of the loss to the Rock. Look at AJ styles; I'm not saying he's anywhere near as talented as Cena on the mic but this is a guy that was getting accused of banging a crackhead and now has lost his final battle against his long time rival and is on a downward spiral with doubts and all that human stuff. Cena was put in yet another stupid storyline which portrayed him as a nerd and a dick at the same time (see the time when the mentally damaged AJ sought him out for comfort in the locker room and he hugged her and feigned concern before looking into the camera and rolling his eyes cos ewww women) Instead of adding little nuances to his character after the Rock loss it was all DERP DERP DERP as usual. He takes nothing seriously so it's hard to take him seriously.

I'm starting to like him less and less myself but it has nothing to do with him as a performer and more to do with the tedious shit WWE do with him. He's shown he can be great on the stick and is a very decent wrestler (the "you can't wrestle" chants are moronic and the reason why pro Cena people think the chaps who are sick of him are all smarky indie nerds or whatever). I guess he's just an example of the way top WWE babyfaces seem to be now. They've settled with the socially obnoxious jerk template borrowed from The Rock and Y2J. Seeing the Rock and Jericho being bullying homophobic/misogynistic/racist bellends was cool at the time cos it was something new but when Cena/Sheamus and now worst of all, The Miz, try to do the same shit it comes across a force and smarmy. That's why Ryback's felt so refreshing to me.

Bringing back all these old guys won't change much if they don't stop being so lazy in the booking of the non-main event guys. Making more matches for more wrestlers will will have a limited effect. Usos, Riley, Tyson, Clay, Truth etc. could all be solid mid card acts if the show wasn't so top heavy in the deployment of stories/feuds/promos. Even the current Int/Us title guys would be more over if they did something outside of the tired and shitty - bloke on commentary - bloke interrupts the ongoing match - title match next week and for the next couple of months - for every fucker. I hope they only bring back the good talkers, Benjamin can fuck right off.

Bring back Slick!

"Used to watch" are the key words.

She was on the road a few weeks ago. Meltzer said she "wasn't that good" from what he seen of her, although that doesn't stop them from calling women up. No idea if they are high on her or not. Seems a bad time to be called up, what with AJ taking up a large portion of the main show.

What the fuck was he watching? She seems pretty crisp in the ring from what I've seen and has as much, if not, more charisma than AJ or Eve. Though the accent won't do her any favours i guess.

I was impressed with the little Roman Reigns promo this week, first time I've seen real star potential in him.

Is there any word on when they're gonna bring Paige up onto the roster? She would have no problem in being a Lita-style star. And she's fucking hot (despite the Sheamus treatment).

I can't get enough of Bray Wyatt. Every time them ominous guitar chords kick in I mark out. Feels good man. This stable of worshippers/mentals/inbreds/wife murderers is pretty interesting and him sitting by the entrance in his rocking chair looks boss. Leo Kruger on the other hand is hilariously bad. He's like one of those stupid ideas that would pop up in 93-96 for a couple of weeks and fail in every way and be swept quietly under the carpet.

Rollins/Mahal has to be the best Jinder match there has been.

There's a lot of problems with the John Cena character but his name really isn't important.

Why the fuck have they changed the PTP's entrance music? Not only was it on of the few themes that felt 'current' but is was also some good catchy shit.

Just watched the team Austin (HBK, Dudleys, RVD, Booker T) vs team Bischoff (Steiner, Y2J, Christian, Orton, Henry) from survivor series 2003 and holy shit why have I not seen this? Probably the best SS elim match there is. Amazing star power, high stakes (Austin has to retire if his team loses), hot crowd and one of the best HBK performances there is. He's great as the bloody babyface in peril struggling to overcome three of the heel team after the rest of his team have been eliminated. It's noticeable how different wwe matches looked back then - higher intensity, faster paced, less predictable and somewhat overbooked - all popcorn stuff. Austin kicking in Bischoff was sweet but nobody bought the retirement thing. The Molly Holly/Lita match was surprisingly good too. Her character stunk but Holly was pretty decent and although I never thought Lita was any good she sure as fuck was over. The 'Ambulance' match between Kane and Shane was completely daft and enjoyable, backyard wrestling on a big stage. Goldberg/HHH was an overbooked mess but a pretty fun one at that. I'm surprised the crowd weren't more into Goldberg.

and I'll be keeping an eye on NXT when the Kevin Nash/Adrian Neville tapings start airing (when's that due, by the way?). I must get round to Main Event too.

Eh?

Never heard about this.

- Best moment

Cena's shit eating grin after being busted open by Brock on Raw

Shield debut

Kazuchika Okada wins IWGP title

- Biggest anticlimax

Chris Jericho

Sheamus v Bryan at mania

Some of the Rock promos

- Funniest moment

3MB skit baby!

Austin Aries the other week laying on Hogan's desk

Heyman heart attack angle

- Best bang for your buck

Bray Wyatt

Dean Ambrose

Titus o neil

- Best non-wrestler

Paul Heyman

JBL

Johnny Ace

- Poster of the year

Get back to you on this

- GTFO

Mr Anderson

Alberto Del Rio

Big Show

- Wrestler of the year

CM Punk

Austin Aries

Daniel Bryan

- Worst wrestler

Mr Anderson

Tensai

Alberto Del Rio

- Best face

Jeff Hardy

Daniel Bryan

The Rock

- Best heel

Christopher Daniels

Austin Aries

Bully Ray

- Best tag-team

Bad Influence

Team Hell No

Prime Time Playas

- Best performance

Daniel Bryan in everything

Joseph Parks being a revelation

Brock being a monster

Austin Aries in the last few weeks

- Best feud

Cena v Lesnar

Cena v Rock

Main Event is probably their best show at the moment. One hour, no filler and at least one quality match with build and everything. NXT deserves some credit though, relatively fresh presentation and lots of promising guys (and girls) on it and decent matches and REGAL.

Road Dogg looked good at the Rumble. Just bring him back and put some personality in the midcard, sorted.

Anybody here like joshi? I just watched the Chigusa Nagayo vs Dump Matsumoto hair match and woah blimey.

 

Did you know the result before you watched it?

Yeah, and it royally pissed on Taker/Shawn Seriously, it's drama at its best.

Is anybody else looking forward to TLC? It'll be good to see five newish guys in the main or semi-main event or whatever. We'll get some idea of what they're doing with these Shield chaps and we'll see if they're finally gonna pull the trigger on Dolph. Plus we get Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth which I know everyone is pissing themselves to see.

Anybody here like joshi? I just watched the Chigusa Nagayo vs Dump Matsumoto hair match and woah blimey. Dump, the monster heel battering Chigusa with kendos and nun-chucks and stabbing her in the face with scissors and Chigs screaming in pain and getting flattened. Obviously one of the points of a wrestling match is to manipulate the viewers emotions but this was maybe done too well here, to the extent that I was feeling uncomfortable watching the end and the trim. Are you a weirdo that wonders what it's like to hear thousands Japanese schoolgirls cry in agony? You'll dig this. Harrowing.

I meant this era. When I say age I mean in terms of how re-watchable it is. Once you know the result a lot of the epic nature of the storylelling of the match is lost. Obviously you could say that about a lot of matches but this seemed to peak too early with the Taker dive spot and kind of meandered after that with an overlong finishing stretch which seems to drag a lot more once you know the conclusion.

Cool, making youtube playlist now.

Gonna have to watch that Taker/Festus match, sounds intriguing. I must say I don't like Luke Gallows/Doc though, seems completely generic and has his one stupid facial expression. I remember liking the Festus stuff , it's unique at least.

Alright cheers. The JBL matches appeal to me, completely missed that run. I imagine Godzilla's a Japanese dude?

I dunno bout that. Sure it's one of the biggest matches of the era and was epic on first viewing but I'm sure there are matches that have aged better? Off the top of my head from the little I've seen I remember liking Cena/Umaga at the Rumble more and I'm guessing there's some great Eddy/Rey matches?

Just re-watched the first Taker/HBK Mania match for the first time since it happened. Shawn's entrance is hilariously bad. Fuck, I forgot about that Taker dive. HBK's missed moonsalt looked nasty enough but Undertaker's lucky he's still walking. An enjoyable match but there's a bit too much finisher-finisher-lay about-finisher stuff for me for it to really hold up. The transitions into both the tombstone spots were cool.

I tuned out for a few years and I'm trying to get a feel of it. What were the best WWE matches from about 04-09?