Kiffy

Glen, I realise this advice is the height of hypocrisy coming from me. But you can't get anywhere with mickey, he's either so pathetically in need of having some sense of worth in his life he'll blindly refuse to learn anything about what the edl is, or he knows full well and is on a little propoganda/trolling kick to keep his mind away from thinking about his life. Either way, you won't get anywhere with it.

To be honest Kiffy buddy, I don't really care.

 

However I will admit I do have an intrest in all this because of the alleged support from groups such as UncutUK and similar organisations

 

Gypos/pikeys/tinkers etc I don't really mind in all honesty, my only experience of them is MBF Gypsy Wedding & Snatch.

But "anarchists" and dicks like them I'm not fond of.

Oh I can't help but bite, so do you think uncutuk are anarchists? Or do you dislike them for another reason? You think it's unenglish to make corporations pay their far share of tax? Or you dislike uk uncut for staging peaceful demonstrations in fortnum mason when they could have been out shouting scum at random asians?

What's your interest in ukuncut, and how on earth did you manage to connect them to the travelling community site at dale farm?

First google search shows this http://www.lawsonfairbank.co.uk/building-on-green-belt.asp it was not only happening on a pretty significant scale between 1994 to 1996 (an average of 3,287 houses per year) it jumped massively after that, going up to 5,265, an increase of 60%.

Honestly if you don't have even a passing understanding of the issues involved and under discussion why would you venture an opinion? Do you not find it a little embarassing to quote ill informed rubbish as fact in a debate you have no understanding of?

You may not know this about me, but I post very little, in fact nothing, on nuclear physics forums, because I would add nothing of any worth. You may want to apply the same approach to this thread.

Seriously, even if you're just a stickler for planning laws (no matter how institutionally discriminatory they are), (and this is a bit like Mickey's EDL as a food-labelling pressure group), surely you can see that boorishly cheering for the forced displacement of a heavily-persecuted ethnic minority is in unbelievably bad taste and is grossly illiberal.

Dunno if grossly illeberal is necessarily always a bad thing. Sometimes a stern view on something's fine and dandy.

But you can't question the bad taste thing, honestly it's amazing the amount of seemingly very reasonable people who are quite happy to hate on pikeys. (paraphrasing).

So, some of the land is theirs, which is fine, some of the land isn't, which they have to vacate?

 

Can't see a problem myself

As is so often the case mickey, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. All of the land is theirs.

Quite frankly they should have been given planning permission in the first place

Why? They bought the land in full knowledge that it could not be used for residential dwellings.

 

Where are all these houses built on green belt land by construction companies?

Lol, it was a fucking scrap yard when they bought it, let's not pretend the green belt thing meant a fucking damn.

And are you serious re green belt land being built on? You are taking the piss aren't you?

I'm actually a little surprised the EDL hasn't got involved with this somehow yet. Or maybe because not many travellers are Muslamics and that many adult male travellers are quite capable of taking care of themselves?

 

Or maybe because there is no reason at all to get involved in this?

Yeah, stick to protesting the opening of mosques, cos there's loads of good reasons to do that.

Should anyone who owns land be able to build whatever they want on it, without getting planning permission? If the answer is no, then you can't make an exception for Dale Farm. It's been allowed to go on for a ridiculous amount of time. If the bulldozers had been sent in as soon as the buildings had been put up, we'd all be a lot better off. All that is going to happen once they are evicted is they'll do the same again somewhere else and it'll drag on for another decade while all the appeals go on and a lot of lawyers get very rich from the public purse.

Exceptions get made all the fucking time, for various people for various reasons. House's are put up all over the shop by construction companies all the time on top of green belt land and all the rest.

The idea that taking a considered viewpoint on this means anyone gets to build whatever they want whenever they want is ridiculous.

Quite frankly they should have been given planning permission in the first place and left to get on with it, would have saved millions of pounds and would have worked out better for the council, the travellers and everyone else involved.

What I dont get with these travellers is that they're turning down houses offered by the council as it goes against their way of life, yet it seems that a lot of them dont do that much travelling and if they could just stay in the same spot for as long as they can.

They've turned down the flats or hostels that have been offered for the old folks and familys with kids. Hostels are not lovely places to live with your kids alot of the times, and it would involve splitting them all up and ruining their community.

For all the issues that can go with travelling communites (and I certainly wouldn't be naive enough to suggest that there are often issues) the togetherness and sense of community they've got is really rather special. I dunno if we ever actually had the sense of community and everyone looking out for and hanging out with each other than people seem to suggest we did in the good old days. But whether or not we did, the guys at dale farm do. And quite frankly, with them owning the land, it seems a bit much to rip it all apart for no good reason.

Hey, mickeys a fascist cunt and I hope he dies slowly of cancer. I hope his mental issues get worse to the point he completely fails to function, I hope to christ he doesn't have children but if he does I hope they don't get to see puberty, to ensure his ignorance and basic lack of humanity dies with him.

(gods sake, I'm only joking! You people!)

In other news, loving the way this threads going

Boo, another delay due to an injunction. The tension is killing me.

I know they did get refused planning permission (cos the scrap metal works they took over was on green belt land, and you can't build on green belt land unless somebody gives you permission to do so) but are you really hoping they get moved on?

They currently live on land they own, and have bought outright, have kids going to the local schools, and are probably getting up to less mischeif where they are than they would be if they got moved on.

You read private eye, you know how often planning permission goalposts are moved to ensure big business gets to keep making big money. Would it not be nice to see, just for once, the rules bent to help people who could really use it?

Rather them live in their own little community, than have them move in next door!

 

 

Like the blacks, muslims and poles, right?

hee

Oh, I just remembered that there actually was one. One from when I worked at Pizza Hut, his table tried to do a runner and he came back and paid the bill himself and apologised for the others.

 

Not that it matters, I fully believe that people should be judged on what they do, not what their background/race/religion/nationality/whatever is.

Entirely agreed.

The pizza hut thing kinda makes the point as well, how many times did you serve a table who may well have been made up of travellers but you had no idea that's what they were? Like I said, they don't wear uniforms.

I never met a Traveller who was anything other than a scumbag (or at least doing a good impression of one), and that makes me feel guilty to say as I know that it cant be them all, just I have had bad experiences with them. I dont want to view them all based on the impressions given by a few, but its hard sometimes to avoid that feeling.

 

Not sure what the point of this post is really.

Funny thing there is, ya probably have met lots of travellers who weren't scumbags. Thing is they don't tend to wear t-shirts saying "I'm a pikey me, be ready to judge." Unless you specifically asked if they lived in a caravan, they probably wouldn't tell you.

Maybe travellers should ask themselves why people don't want them there? It's not like people are being unreasonable, is it?

 

If travellers settled down into normal houses and stopped acting like cretins, people wouldn't even know they were travellers unless they told them.

I feel the same way about black people, whenever one of them suggests it's unfair they get stereoptyped as criminals and drug dealers I have to explain it's high time they stopped being drug dealers and criminals and then the stereotype would stop.

Same thing with muslims, end of the day they need to ask themselves why people assume they're all terrorists.

I mean granted, there are equally as much, if not more, of all three groups who don't do anything wrong. But really, why would I care about that?

I like to judge everyone by the worst behaviour they exhibit, and judge em all by it.

(Note, this isn't true, as I have a brain and don't read the daily mail).

The fact is planning permission is virtually never granted to travellers anymore, despite government legislation telling them they need to.

Is that a fact with some evidence to back it up?

Planning permission for settled folk has around a 95% success rate, for travellers it's more like 25%.

The vast majority of councils don't want traveller sites there, most residents don't, so they're far more lilkely to get refused.

It's really not a level playing field.

Not just the travellers though, the council in basilon and nigh on all the other councils around the country have to share some of the blame. The fact is planning permission is virtually never granted to travellers anymore, despite government legislation telling them they need to.

The fact is the councils are ignoring laws meant to help travellers settle down in exactly the same way as travellers are ignoring laws aimed at not letting them. There's fault on both sides but one side has the weight of authority behind it and one side has nothing.

So the travellers lose, get upended, kids taken out of school, you breed more chips on shoulders for the next generation and it's a vicous circle.

Granted the lands greenbelt but pre the travellers building houses it was a scrap yard, so they're hardly fucking up the natural beauty of the place.

I really don't see what benefit moving them on has, to them or to society as a whole

The counter to that point is that travellers pretty much never get planning permission.

And the government has told councils to do things to let travellers settle down, but they simply don't bother.

It's all very well saying they don't have planning permission so they should never have done it, but that means they'll never get to settle, which means they'll remain on the road repeatedly getting moved on, which means the crime and lack of education associated with travelling communities is more likely to remain at current levels.

I really don't think it's quite as simpe as you're suggesting loki, that's why so many protesters are down there, it's why amnesty international has taken an interest, and so on and so forth.

This screencap from Facebook might amuse you.

AA brings together a number of

Looking at that, it's a group i'd definitely take in intrest in.

Go on mickey, lose the sig and stop marching with and for racist scumbags. You'll feel better about yourself.

Exactly, he was there, can't stop that, I just hope he's not on board as an organiser or suchlike.

Absoloutely, can you imagine if the creators of the EDL all had links to far right organisations?

It wouldn't be the peaceful food labelling lobby group we see and love today, that's for sure.

So hold on, we're allowed to protest about weapons fairs but we're not allowed to protest against muslim communities?

God, it's pc gone mad.

http://www.infologue.com/terrorism-news/24...rrorism-report/

One does wonder, if people are posting "The vast majority of those arrested for terrorism were muslim" whether they're just a bit ignorant due to the media bias towards highlighting muslim terrorism, and they're just a bit uneducated past reading the sun.

Or if there's a more sinister reason behind it.

Dunno what the case with this blueknowsit fellow is, but I do wonder.

What you are talking about there is the covenant of security , It it doesn

Except Afghanistan...

Which, having the centgas oil pipeline running through it was in no way vital to ensure an unbroken supply of oil through to America. Which of course also had no relevance the first time america helped out in wars in afghanistan. And afghanistan finding a new oil fiend in august 2010, with an estimated 1.8 billion barrels oil.

You're a bright spark mickey, no doubt about it.

If you really wanted to fuck up my point, you should have used kosovo as an example. As far as I know that didn't have oil, but being in Europe was vital to ensure the continuing stability of the region.

A better point would be we only go to war for selfish reasons, but you trying and failing to counter what I say is always fun, so do continue. The more people who associate your sig with being a fucking moron the better.

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