Chris Benoit dead

[edgecrusher]

WWE needs to find someone who'll defend them without tripping up. If the media really wants to impale the company, at the moment their own spokespeople are offering them loads of ammunition.

[Dirty Eddie]

WWE needs to find someone who'll defend them without tripping up. If the media really wants to impale the company, at the moment their own spokespeople are offering them loads of ammunition.

Is there a way to defend it without tripping up though??From what I can see, if you manage to wangle a prescription for some steroid based treatment ("ooh, my knee's still giving me trouble Doctor"), the testers will expect to find steroids in your system and thus you still pass. Of course the fucking huge loophole is that you can be taking extra steroids you obtained yourself along with your small prescribed amount to get yourself jakked up. If your test shows a really high amount you can just say "sorry about that, but this test was random y'know, and I just happened to take my prescription the day before".Unless someone comes on and says "Yes, our tests are way too easy to cheat. We will be sorting this out", anything else is gonna be bullshit.

[hitman89762000]

Ya know if they wanted a real company guy im supprised they havent had taker on tv defending em yet

[Dirty Eddie]

Ya know if they wanted a real company guy im supprised they havent had taker on tv defending em yet

"And now on FOX, joining me to talk about deaths in Wrestling... The Undertaker" :laugh:

[hitman89762000]

Ya know if they wanted a real company guy im supprised they havent had taker on tv defending em yet

"And now on FOX, joining me to talk about deaths in Wrestling... The Undertaker" :laugh:

I didnt think it through did i?

[Kenny McBride]

Kennedy's full of shit. Pillman was well known for NOT being into steroids in WCW, having had bad experiences during his football career. He felt he had to bulk up when he went to the WWF. And because the WWF signed him and pushed him when his ankle was so fucked up, that's when he got badly into the pain pills. He was probably on coke before he left WCW and he drank. Otherwise, it's hard to argue that his was a WCW issue. As for Guerrero, it's not impossible that he was on the gas before he came to the WWF, and certainly he was drinking heavily and was into the pills long before he jumped, but 1. his problems were well known, so the WWF signed a known alcoholic/drug addict and did nothing about it at first, and 2. he sure as hell bulked the fuck up as soon as he got there and got bigger and bigger as time went on. He was still doing pain pills at the time he died. Given that he had a history of addiction, a company showing proper duty of care to its employees would have done something about that.Oh...they're not employees, are they? So there's no responsibility for anything.

[CoreyVandal]

Finlay & Mero on Nancy Grace:

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

 

By the way, go to the account of the person who posted this, they seem to be uploading pretty much every news report relating to this.

Edited July 15, 2007 by CoreyVandal

[kickin it wit the kliq]

deleted

Edited July 15, 2007 by kickin it wit the kliq

[Condeets]

Finlay & Mero on Nancy Grace:Part 1Part 2Part 3By the way, go to the account of the person who posted this, they seem to be uploading pretty much every news report relating to this.

This guy is great he gets anything little news clip going, I'm watching everyday.

Pillman was well known for NOT being into steroids in WCW, having had bad experiences during his football career. He felt he had to bulk up when he went to the WWF

Bull shit the man was hurt, he had the car crash and was on every drug under the sun to cope with the effects of that to want to try to continue to wrestle. He was pushed as a commentator but it was his choice to take the drugs to try and get back in the ring.

[Astro Hollywood]

Meltzer brings the sense

--The funeral for Nancy and Daniel Benoit just ended. It was a simple service. There was a lot of local media, and some national media there. The media was not allowed inside. Among those who attended and this probably isn't a complete list, were Jim Ross, Dave Penzer, Bill Otten, Fit Finlay, Hack Myers, Alex Porteau, Marc Mero, Dean Malenko, Penny Durham and Vickie Guerrero. Ross spoke after the funeral to the media saying, "This is not a steroid issue. That horse has got to be put in the barn and unsaddled. It's not a steroid issue. It's a domestic issue. But more than anything, it's a tragedy because a mohter and little boy are dead."--The biggest media target for comments as he left was Fit Finlay. What a bad idea last night turned out to be for him and actually, I thought he was lucky because Marc Mero and Bryan Alvarez have so much personal respect for him they could have made him look far worse. Well, also because there were times he opened himself up so badly and Alvarez wasn't on at those moments since the producers wanted Mero vs. Fit. But in the end, Nancy Grace made Fit look terrible. Fit needed a lot more than not knowing the policy he was defending and "only five deaths under our watch" (I presume Nancy & Daniel Benoit's deaths don't count because they weren't contracted employees, like the plethora of young deaths of guys who picked up or worsened habits under the watch who died in their 40s) and "we put smiles on faces" to go on a show like that. I felt sorry for him, but it was another example of everything wrong with how wrestling is handling this situation.I can't comment on Mr. Kennedy's appearance on FNC because I didn't see it and won't until tonight. I did see Jon Stewart on O'Reilly, and as much as everyone in the profession will knock him because he hasn't been a major star in a long time, I thought he was very honest, which puts him well ahead of most who have been on these shows.For the same thing, just a different day. Whether it's Kennedy, Finlay, or anyone else, instead of denying there is a problem, because three dead bodies speak that there is a problem, every WWE performer going public should spend far more time talking about a solution. Instead, they'll knock Nancy Grace, who was completely clueless on day one, and after only two plus weeks, has more depth of thought on this story and its true ramifications than any WWE contracted performer who has written or spoke publicly. They'll knock Marc Mero because he wasn't a big star (immaterial) or has an agenda. Who doesn't have an agenda in wrestling? Nobody publicly touches Konnan, who is essentially saying the same things, because it's easier to say Mero hasn't been in the business in years and is out of touch than say that about Konnan. I'm sure he's got an agenda, just like John Cena has an agenda and everyone has an agenda. I'm looking for positive improvements, not hiding (such as WWE taking its Wellness policy off its web site or the McMahon family's disappearing act in public when the media folks actually started learning the story after an embarrassing start), name callingAgain, why can nobody in WWE say what The Billy Blanks of Boxercize said after the Benoit murders. We want to work with all the governmental agencies when it comes to outside testing because after what happened. We don't want steroids in our sport. That was the most horrible crime I've heard of in a long time.I'm not saying outside agency athletic commission testing is even a partial solution, but the fact WWE--and TNA--won't say anything of the sort advocating or coming up with any improvements after three weeks is telling. Defending the drug policy is futile at this point. It's failure was proven by Benoit having steroids in his home and huge quantities prescribed to him the entire year while being tested. Attempts to use the policy as proof things are fine doesn't work. If things were fine and the policy works, explain the contradiction.The big problem here is the wrestling industry. They are not to blame for the Benoit murders. They are to blame for their attitude on the Benoit murders. I hate saying this, but while wrestlers are far more honest in general than baseball and football players when it comes to personal use of steroids (in most cases, there are exceptions), many (not all) are coming across as incapable of any depth of thought, and having zero balls or backbone. Instead of working within every means necessary to give suggestions to clean up problems, they are more concerned with protecting the business than saving future lives. They haven't even made the most simple of correlations. In the long run, saving lives is protecting the business. In fact, with every single WWE appearance on television, has one wrestler spoken up with a suggestion on how they can lower the death rate in the future? Or have they attempted, in most cases futilely, to deny what is obvious to anyone with eyesight and half a brain?I'm begging one WWE wrestler on their blogs or in a public forum to make suggestions to clean up the industry that are viable. Not just WWE. The industry. Whether it be a change of standards of what a star is supposed to look like, schedule that would be more beneficial, or something. If I read one more "personal choice," thing, I want to ask every Mr. Personal choice these questions:1) Whose personal choice was it to make Bobby Lashley and Dave Bautista two of the company's three most pushed stars. I'm not accusing them of steroids. At least in the case of Dave, the fans took him over the top after HHH handpicked him to be a future star. Why? Great in-ring? Great speaking? But in his case, he got over and drew money and did earn his spot, but what message does that send to 80% of the roster who work better and talk better? As for Lashley, that was Vince's personal choice. All year from within the organization it's been the constant talk of how the fans don't buy Lashley at the level we are pushing him. And did the push lessen? No, it accelerated. Was it because his promos have gotten better? Was it because he outworks the rest of the roster? What trait does Lashley have that one would look at him and say he's a headliner?2) What personal choice did Nancy and Daniel Benoit make?Instead of saying the profession isn't to blame, and it both is and isn't, stop being so defensive and address what can be done to make things better and save lives. I have not pushed for athletic commission regulation of pro wrestling for many years, probably not since the early 90s. However, I've seen what has happened in California with MMA and while I don't agree with every commission decision, they have done an excellent job on the drug issue. Armando Garcia has said he would test WWE wrestlers, and I'm sure the same would go for TNA if they ever came, for free, to help WWE. If the business has changed and we want to do everything possible to prevent problems, who will be the first person in WWE to say, "We welcome outside testing." Don't argue "We're not a sport." If nobody was dying, there is no issue. Wrestling, in the big picture, is more real than MMA or boxing, not less, because the body count of superstars is the ultimate reality. Don't argue "it's only five guys who died under out watch," when 40-year-old Chris Benoit had how many of his closest friend this Earth in recent years and every close friend of his that I've spoken with believes that played a part in his mental collapse.3) Don't tell me about how clean the locker room is. Publicly when Eddy Guerrero died, one guy after another went on television to brag about how Eddy had been clean for years. And I don't know who knew what, but Eddy and I did have mutual very good friends who were constantly monitoring him because they knew he was always at risk. Eddy himself told me that every single day was a struggle fighting his addictions. And by wrestling standards, Eddy may or may not have been clean, but by real world standards, significant usage of pain medication, steroids and GH is not clean. When Fit Finlay went on TV last night and told Mero that there's no proof steroids played a part in Guerrero's death, they needed an advocate who has at least kept up with the business enough to know that Guerrero's death certificate specifically points to steroids as a major contributing cause of his death. If Finlay didn't know that, the company is at fault for not preparing him and allowing him to open himself up to that degree. If he did know, then he's at fault for trying to lie. I believe it's the former. The first time I heard the defense that those old guys don't know and it's a new breed of wrestlers was in the early 90s when Jim Duggan tried to say there were no more steroids in wrestling and it had changed from the days of Superstar Graham and Bruno Sammartino, who were saying there was a steroid problem.When Nancy Gracie screams on television about the indictment and Dr. Astin prescribing 700 pills in one day, the name in the indictment who he prescribed to was a WWE wrestler. Keep in mind, this is just one doctor located in Carrollton, GA, with a hoard of wrestlers as clients. Why do wrestlers living hours away, in fact, one living hundreds of miles away and another living thousands of miles away, regularly see a doctor in Carrollton, GA? Why did Benoit get the quantity of drugs he did? Listen, if more of the locker room is clean today than eight years ago, that's positive. But don't tell me with that evidence the problems have suddenly vanished and we no longer have to be concerned. Not after three deaths three weeks ago.This is not a blame game. I don't blame anyone specifically other than Chris Benoit. I blame the environment and ultimately the people who made the decisions that led to this, not for murder, but for inaction. That's the people who ingested, the doctors who prescribed it to be buddies with wrestlers and the profession that has made some cosmetic changes, perhaps even some real changes, but has never once addressed the real issue of hirings, firings and pushes based on physique. Exactly how much punishment and how often, is healthy for an average person in the profession to take without a large percentage succumbing to addictive chemical help? Will WWE and TNA work together and fund a study regarding the deaths of wrestlers, including talking to the coroners who pulled these overly enlarged hearts out of one person or another, to find what consistent patterns we can find, what caused them, and most importantly, what can be doing to avoid it as much as possible in the future. Don't come up with "well, they didn't die under our watch," when the habits that killed them were done under your watch. Don't send out spineless wrestlers who claim Eddy Guerrero's problems were all in WCW, or, like Steve Blackman, who will say he's seen massive steroid use in wrestling, but only in Stampede Wrestling, never in WWF. We all know by the time their bodies expired from those habits many were in their 40s, and no longer under contract. Does anyone realize how bad that comes across to any thinking person?Marc Mero is facing a heart valve replacement. It may or may not have been due to the steps he took to be a pro wrestler. Konnan is facing a kidney replacement, and nearly died last year. That was due to the steps he took both to be and to stay a pro wrestler. I knew Konnan at 25, and when it came to this issue, he was a far more intelligent version of Mr. Kennedy. For all I know, he may have gone on TV in Mexico and said he never did steroids. But he took steroids to be a star. He took pain pills to keep up the schedule. Made big money and didn't particularly care that much about the guys struggling to make it. He thought he was invincible and at 28, once told me and Art Barr that he didn't care if he lived past 35, because he was living a great life and we will all die of something. And I remember Art saying he had a three-year-old and he wanted to be there to watch him grow up. And I remember talking to the coroner several times after Art died and he was stumped. He couldn't figure out what killed him. Contrary to popular belief, he didn't have anywhere close to enough pain medication in him to be fatal, although he did have some. The coroner told me, "If I didn't know any better, his insides look exactly like a teenager from Washington who died from steroids." And then he said, "But that's impossible, because his father and brother told me that Art never took steroids."With the benefit of the same hindsight, when today's wrestlers are on the scrap heap, and the company is no longer paying for their operations even though their health problems continue or worsen, many of them, facing mounting medical bills that kill your savings even if you were prudent during their career, will go on talk shows after the next death. And a whole new group of 30-year-old wrestlers who either don't know history or are able to somehow ignore it, and 48-year-old producers who actually do have full benefits packages that the rest of their brethren don't have, or fathers and uncles of guys wanting to break in who don't want to ire Stephanie McMahon and HHH, will kiss ass and claim those people were never really stars, are bitter, old and that there is no problem because they haven't even been in a locker room in eight years, and never address the guy who was in the locker room in the past week saying the same thing. And they'll try and tell people it's not the same business it was even two years ago.And I'll save this column and write it again. It's not like I haven't written it 30 times before.Wrestling should be a great industry. It should put smiles on faces. Hell, 80% of the time I've watched Fit Finlay wrestle this past year has been fun. And to me, who may know the industry a little better, by and large, my opinion is it is filled with sheep, cowards and people who in the end are so afraid of what they deep down know is the truth that they will not-so-gladly sacrifice families. In the end, they are avoiding what they think they are doing, which is actually protecting their business.

[Finlay]

That was a very good read. He makes some very good points there especially about Eddie being clean for 'pro wrestling standards' but NOT 'real life standards'.

[Bix]

Kennedy's full of shit. Pillman was well known for NOT being into steroids in WCW, having had bad experiences during his football career. He felt he had to bulk up when he went to the WWF. And because the WWF signed him and pushed him when his ankle was so fucked up, that's when he got badly into the pain pills. He was probably on coke before he left WCW and he drank. Otherwise, it's hard to argue that his was a WCW issue.

Kenny, I love you, but half-wrong here. Yes, he bulked up near the end, but that was him adding HGH. He was a major steroid user back to his football days.

[BurningHammer]

Dave Meltzer as a wrestling writer has re-emerged in the fall out from this. Great stuff.

[Kenny McBride]

Kennedy's full of shit. Pillman was well known for NOT being into steroids in WCW, having had bad experiences during his football career. He felt he had to bulk up when he went to the WWF. And because the WWF signed him and pushed him when his ankle was so fucked up, that's when he got badly into the pain pills. He was probably on coke before he left WCW and he drank. Otherwise, it's hard to argue that his was a WCW issue.

Kenny, I love you, but half-wrong here. Yes, he bulked up near the end, but that was him adding HGH. He was a major steroid user back to his football days.

Are you sure? I'm almost certain that in his obit, Herb wrote about how Pillman had had bad experiences with the gear when playing football (when he was up at something stupid like 250lbs) and came off when he got into wrestling, such that he was one of the first guys to volunteer to do all the anti-drugs messages for WCW. I guess that could all be bullshit though.And I'm loving the quote from Art Barr's coroner. Even when he was dead, his family couldn't admit the truth about what a skinny guy of 5'5" has to do to succeed in wrestling. Wrestling~!

[Bix]

Kennedy's full of shit. Pillman was well known for NOT being into steroids in WCW, having had bad experiences during his football career. He felt he had to bulk up when he went to the WWF. And because the WWF signed him and pushed him when his ankle was so fucked up, that's when he got badly into the pain pills. He was probably on coke before he left WCW and he drank. Otherwise, it's hard to argue that his was a WCW issue.

Kenny, I love you, but half-wrong here. Yes, he bulked up near the end, but that was him adding HGH. He was a major steroid user back to his football days.

Are you sure? I'm almost certain that in his obit, Herb wrote about how Pillman had had bad experiences with the gear when playing football (when he was up at something stupid like 250lbs) and came off when he got into wrestling, such that he was one of the first guys to volunteer to do all the anti-drugs messages for WCW. I guess that could all be bullshit though.

I'm pretty sure it was in last year's Pillman story, plus there's Bill Watts's story about Pillman beating the steroid tests in WCW.Looks wise, it was more obvious in Stampede because he was in a territory of small guys.