CracktonMoj Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Ryo Saito, Dragon Kid, Genki Horiguchi vs CIMA, BxB Hulk, Jack EvansThis here match has garnered considerable praise, with one guy at DVDR saying it's his DG match of the year. Then again, he hates Don Fujii as well, so he's obviously not quite right in the head. To me it was just a spotty sprint. The execution was first rate (especially from Evans, who tends to be more than a bit suspect), the timing and all round sense of chaos was present and correct and the crowd was all heated for the finish, but it didn't strike me as something truly special at all. CIMA is going a bit overboard with his US indy spots at the moment too.I just watched this match, and you sir are wrong. Wrong and gay. DG MOTYC at the very least. Fucking perfect spotfest with everything being hit perfectly and jaw dropping stuff and false finishes and counters and crossups and it's just a fucking blinder that you need to watch again, and again and again and again, from every angle.More soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$tew Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'd take TJ vs MOz over CIMA and his boyfriends vs MOz without question.You are queer.I'm not sure what else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatular Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Is "Zetsuen" Japanese for "the most hurty looking, and not at all pulled, kick to the face that you've ever seen"?If the kanji for it on his profile are 絶縁 (hard to be 100% sure because they're so damn small), then it's 'isolation'.I finally watched Infinity #46 (Wrestle JAM) the other week. I really couldn't be fucked with it. I've no interest in the Americans because generally they're not very good. Austin Aries is the pick of the bunch by some way and he wouldn't get a job with WWE and shouldn't get a job with Dragon Gate. I'm finding Evans less abrasive recently, much in the same way that sandpaper gets less abrasive if you keep grinding away with it, but I truly can't be arsed with the rest of them. They have nothing to offer that a gimmickless, unpushed DG dojo graduate doesn't. I'll take Tozawa 2005 over Jimmy Tossing Rave in a heartbeat. Isn't he the one who's supposed to have a personality and get actual heat? Not as far as I could tell.Praise be, then, for Fujii and Magu. Turbo-yan and Magu-yan between them even made me enjoy Turboman for a good ten minutes or so. Amazing what you can do with a bit of personality. Roll on Fujii vs Yokosuka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 9, 2006 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2006 Infinity #48Yes, me and Moj just watched this. God bless Dragon Gate... for there is nothing better. Some thoughts.1. Yamato Onodera vs. Yasushi KandaAlthough this is Onodera's TV debut, he'd been wrestling Kanda in the DG equivalent fo dark matches for a while before it. This, combined with Kanda's relatively low rank as a technically new wrestler means that he's a lot more competitive than Tozawa and Yuki Ono were in their first televised outings. He doesn't get to show much but looks relatively solid. He hits a death valley driver for two, which could become part of his regular offense as no one else is using it at the moment. To be honest I enjoyed watching Kanda do his thing more than anything. Still hard to believe that he's back full time. Post-match, Onodera gets his Kanda-esque outfit and is invited to join Final M2K, effective immediately as part of their Triangle Gate league team.Who the hell is this Yamato dude anyway, and why is a rookie getting entry to Final M2K?? Also, wasn't the idea of "Final" M2K that they stop all the fucking about with membership and have a single settled stable?To be honest, much as I love DG (and I do, very much), they're not always the best at keeping continuity. I never understood why they inducted Kishiwada into BloodGen when, at their unveiling, CIMA said that one of the three tenets BloodGen was founded on was having "sugao" - unmasked face, hence all the stuff about them kicking out Shisa.Is "Zetsuen" Japanese for "the most hurty looking, and not at all pulled, kick to the face that you've ever seen"? Because if it's not, it should be. OUCH."Zetsuen", apart from meaning "incredibly far" and "tongue inflammation", means "separation" - as in "this is the separation of your head from your shoulders, fucker."EDIT: Spatularrrrrrrrr, you got the other nuance - it's pretty much a similar thing in Japanese though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHammer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 o be honest, much as I love DG (and I do, very much), they're not always the best at keeping continuity. I never understood why they inducted Kishiwada into BloodGen when, at their unveiling, CIMA said that one of the three tenets BloodGen was founded on was having "sugao" - unmasked face, hence all the stuff about them kicking out Shisa.CIMA admitted when inducting Maggy that he used the no masks stipulation at the time of forming BG as an excuse to keep out Shisa I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted November 9, 2006 Paid Members Share Posted November 9, 2006 o be honest, much as I love DG (and I do, very much), they're not always the best at keeping continuity. I never understood why they inducted Kishiwada into BloodGen when, at their unveiling, CIMA said that one of the three tenets BloodGen was founded on was having "sugao" - unmasked face, hence all the stuff about them kicking out Shisa.CIMA admitted when inducting Maggy that he used the no masks stipulation at the time of forming BG as an excuse to keep out Shisa I believe.Ah, right. I don't have the episode where he inducted Kishiwada in, so I didn't hear that. I only have the lead-up and aftermath of him being brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHammer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 It was the 22/6/05 PPV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted November 12, 2006 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2006 I'd take TJ vs MOz over CIMA and his boyfriends vs MOz without question.You are queer.I'm not sure what else to say.I don't like Shinsei blood. Shiny happy CIMA with brown hair dye and white pants doing the Hulk dance was the gayest thing ever, worse than the worst Pos. Hearts dance. CIMA, Hulk and Evans vs MO'z is hardly DF vs. Blood in terms of great feuds. Sure, CIMA has been either a tweener or a face for years now, but teaming with a Pos.Hearts member just isn't him at all. CIMA vs Gamma and CIMA vs Magnitude is awesome, Evans vs MO'z is the same as Evans vs everyone else. As for Hulk, I can see why this is a decent move for him as opposed to trying to revive Pos.Hearts, but him and CIMA as a team will never sit properly with me. If I were to choose between Evans doing gymnastics at random into MO'z members and Taku Iwasa getting pissed off and attempting to remove some heads with his Axe bomber of death or Kouji Shishido going from statue-like flagbearer to angry face puncher, I know which I prefer. Or in short, Your face is queer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Ironically, I just said something similar to $tew in the thread about Zero-1 leaving TWC.It seems even when we want to discuss DG, we don't want to do it in your thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted November 12, 2006 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2006 When the cool kids discuss it elsewhere I notice you don't get called, gay, wrong or queer. Taku > Jacku. EDIT: Can't believe I came back into this thread without posting something about Jushin motherfucking Liger. That show on the 23rd just keeps getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$tew Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Your face is queer.But, but... Oh, I don't care. All I know is that I'm having the time of my life watching the Muscle Outlaws vs BloodGen. It's all just utterly magnificent stuff.OK, it may not be Do Fixer vs BloodGen in the WORKRATE~!~! stakes, but it's far more emotional. It used to be Blood Generation were the utter pricks, where you'd hate them for their heelishness... but MOz have taken that to a new level of hateability - taking everything BloodGen ever did (protein powder, low blows) and adding it to that dribbling spot (you know the one) and the bestest heel referee I've ever seen. I've lost count of the amount of times I've shouted "YOU FUCKER" at Kinta, or "DON'T DO IT!" at Gamma... or, indeed, how many times I've exorted BloodGen to "KILL HIM!!!" when they've got a hold of Kinta. It's by FAAAAAR the most emotionally charged wrestling I've watched all year. I popped huge when they got one over MOz at Infinity #51 (which I've just watched) in the CIMA/Jack/BxB/Sydal vs Gamma/Magnitude/Yoshino/Rave match. That's real emotion, and what wrestling is all about.It just seems to me that people want to hate this stuff because there are gaijin involved. What's this CIMA "Indy Fetish" line of thinking all about? Every promotion in Japan uses gaijin. Mutoh uses LOADS of them. Even Misawa uses a bunch of indy guys on tours - including people no-one's ever heard of. Do they have indy fetishes too? Do you mean it's the overbooked nature of the matches with MOz vs BloodGen? Well, that's a natural progression from what they were already doing, in my opinion. They already did the five billion run ins and foreign object shots... so now they've added the heel ref stuff.As for CIMA and BxB... well, I think BxB earned his stripes, so to speak, through his work with Shingo. Didn't Shingo and BxB come to some kind of partnership arrangement on the back of one of their PPV matches earlier in the year before Shingo's excursion? Well, given that CIMA was a man without a country after being dumped by his former partners, he and Fujii needed to get an army together to face them... and since he trusted Shingo, I take it that that was good enough for CIMA.Either way, I'm absolutely fucking loving all this stuff. CIMA, BxB and Jack have their timing down great too, and they're a superb team.I'll say this much though - Jimmy Rave looked totally lost for most of that aforementioned MOz vs BloodGen match... just standing in the corner while everyone ran around doing awesome stuff. Given that I spend much of my DG watching time cursing the existance of the Muscle Outlaws, Jimmy Rave is a great fit since I can't stand him either.I'm sure Tozawa Juku will grow on me, but to me at the minute they're a midcard stable with wacky poses and comedy spots featuring that guy who's barely out of Young Lion trunks, that guy from the Florida Brothers, that guy whose name I don't know... and Anthony W Mori.I'll finish up by saying that I've LOVEDLOVEDLOVED a number of DG matches recently, and I've just been surprised that every time I look to see what's been posted about it, I'm reading "Oh, this match wasn't special at all" and "CIMA's lost it". It's all opinion, I know... but to me, you just seem to be missing out on some utterly splendid stuff.I don't know whether the "Gaijins are ruining DG" theory is commonly accepted as a fact around other message boards, because I don't post or read about DG anywhere else other than here. Are you telling me I'm in the minority here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted November 13, 2006 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 13, 2006 That's the thing though, I wasn't talking about WORKRATE~! and I don't think I've ever used that term in the 40+pages here. I was talking about the same thing as you, emotion. The hatred between CIMA and MO'z is great, MO'z as a group are great, but I don't think Jack Evans adds anything to the feud at all. Not because he's foreign either.. what does he do differently when fighting against his hated enemies in the MO'z? Nothing. As for Hulk, he's certainly worthy of being in a high profile feud and I can see what you're saying about his reasons for tagging with CIMA, but I still can't buy into them being bestest friends given CIMA's persona. I'm with you 100% on MO'z's ability to make you actually hate them. The Ace dream team vs MO'z match where Kinta revealed his true colours was incredible. I was all 1....2... DIE REFEREE FOR RUINING MY AWESOME MOMENT! Gamma's dribbling spot and general twattiness, the arrogance that oozes from Yoshino and Doi, Kinta etc etc. it's all great. Why then, doesn't Jack Evans get angry? As for the indy fetish comment, it's not just adding indy workers to the cards, and it's certainly not the screwjobs or overbooking(M2K double ring out committee anyone), it's the fact that CIMA himself has also started to wrestle in an almost Briscoe-like fashion. Don't get me wrong, CIMA is still great and all, but he does seem to just be running this angle as an excuse for him and his overseas friends to bury everyone and bust out flashy moves at an insane rate. I don't think the gaijins are "ruining" DG, but I think the MO'z are being wasted on Shinsei Blood when they could be capitalising on the TJ momentum. I don't see how you can dismiss TJ as being a comedy act after some of their stuff with the MO'z. Sure, that's how they started and Tozawa in particular still bust out the silly spots, but Oyaji smacking Yoshino in the mouth for breaking their flag and the brawls and matches that followed have been anything but comedic. If you don't think the fans are into it, witness Kouji Shishido getting into the King of Gate brackets via a fan vote despite being a non-wrestler until a couple of weeks before the vote. A team of heroes who everyone wants to see kill the MO'z is the way to go, we agree on that, I just can't get behind the team they've chosen as much as I'd like. CIMA/Shingo/Don Fujii vs MO'z? Yes. Yes indeed. Tozawa/Iwasa/Mori/Shishido vs MO'z? I'll take that too. CIMA and the cleanest cut babyface of all time and a goofy breakdancer vs MO'z? Not so much. It's not BAD, but it could be so much more. Oh, and King Shisa/Pentagon Black is a Gaijin. He is most welcome. EDIT: On a barely related note. Dick Togo and Shuji Kondo are one of the teams for the El Dorado tag tournament. This makes me a happy person. EDIT 2: Sorry $tew, I totally ignored one of your questions there. I don't visit many boards myself, but I've been following the DVDR debate on the issue, and there's a split there too. M2J isn't a fan of the US indy influx, largely because of the fact that DG workers work best with other DG workers. The reaction to this stance varies quite a bit. If you want to have a look for yourself, their equivalent of this thread is here: http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.p...2999&st=160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandySavage Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hi, I just saw some of Blood gneration for the first time, on youtube, they seem tremendous. i used to be a big fan of Toryumon and wanted to catch up with DG. Can you recommend a few shows that stand out please?Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHammer Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Cant some of the indyG backlash be somewhat attributed to Doi getting hurt by Roderick Strong during one of the many shows I still haven't seen yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted November 19, 2006 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 19, 2006 Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Dick Togo in King of Gate Imagine that in the style of Tom Cruise's "I'm in love with Katie Holmes" rant from the Oprah Winfrey show and you'll have some idea of how happy this announcement has made me. In other news, Mochi vs Winner of Fujii/Susumu is the next Dream Gate match after 23/11. Also, as said show is only a few days away now, here's the card along with my polite no-spoilers request. 11/23/2006 Osaka, Osaka Prefectural Gym, Main Arena 1. Akira Tozawa, Taku Iwasa, Takayuki Mori vs. K-ness, Yamato Onodera, Keni'chiro Arai 2. Ryo Saito, Genki Horiguchi vs. Shingo Takagi, Cyber Kong 3. Ryuukon 10 Match Series Finale: Yasushi Kanda vs. Geni'chiro Tenryu 4. IJ Title: Pentagon Black vs. Masaaki Mochizuki 5. Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino, Magniutde Kishiwada, Kevin Steen vs. BxB Hulk, Jyushin Thunder Lyger, Jack Evans, Matt Sydal 6. Hair vs. Hair, Pinfall, Give Up, KO Only: CIMA vs. Gamma 7. Open the Dream Gate: Susumu Yokosuka vs. Don Fujii Please put all 11/23 results/fallout/opinions in spoiler tags! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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