Snake's WWE Invasion 'Royal Mafia Rumble'

[swiftstrike]

Right, I'm travelling to Ireland tomorrow, so my access will be sporadic for the next 24 hours. Family Guy isn't my preferred choice, but Mike's put himself in a position where anyone looking to be the final vote is in a catch-22 - if they believe him, they won't lynch him, and if they don't believe him, they're potentially killing town. Dan and Ron both seem to be slipping through the cracks somehow, which is surprising me. The Bristep/Swift thing is interesting as well, but it feels almost unusually aggressive from Swift. Nonetheless, I don't want to be part of the reason for a no-lynch, and I think Family Guy is now in the lead.

 

That said, Family Guy's tunnelling on Ron HAS been excessive, and I've not understood it. Part of my issue with Ron and Mike has been that I'm not sure who to believe. Family Guy's flip would probably be a useful thing to find out, so let's see how that one goes.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Family Guy PMSL

Chris who exactly is your preferred choice? As you seem to be voting for whoever is most popular rather than actually someone you find scummy this is shown by this post also.

 

Mike with Ron hammering. I've made that clear a couple of times. I'm not as convinced by Mike as he seems to think that I should be, but Ron's reaction is one I've found really unusual. I reckon one of them is lying, but I don't know which. I'm comfortable with seeing a town player take a dive to take out a scum player.

 

http://ukff.com/index.php?act=findpost&amp...amp;pid=2267105

For the record, I'd go for Bristep, Corey or Dan at this point. I don't want to jump between, but I will go for whichever is the more popular option.

 

 

At that point, I thought Mike had made a pretty strong case on Bristep, and I liked his case on Corey as well. Dan's been a suspect throughout because of the way he's been playing. Immediately after that, Bristep showed how badly constructed Mike's case actually was, and Mike's been a major suspect for me since. Since I thought all three cases were solid at that point, I was happy to back all three.

 

At the moment, I don't want to be diverting a lynch with keeping a vote on my preference. Family Guy isn't my preference, but he's a strong back-up for me, since it'll help me decide what's happening with Mike/Ron. We seem to be having some difficulty getting agreement on lynches in this game. That's good in some respects, since it's keeping more people in suspicion than in other games. However, it's bad because it's too easy for scum to push for a no-lynch.

 

I'd rather see us get information and a lynch than I would lose through paralysis. As a result, unless I have a strong feeling about someone not being scum, I'll back the town favourite as we get closer to lynching time.

Okay then Chris, why is that your happier to lynch the most popular suspect rather than the one you consider scummiest? If you want to see Ron be the hammer on a Mike lynch then surely you should be making a case on both Mike and Ron being scum? And if you consider that Ron is scum why would you not just want to outright lynch him? As I can see the argument for someone who is going to be lynched anyway opting to take the hammer vote on Mike in cause he is lying but if you consider that both Mike and Ron are scum which as I say seems to be the only reason to take the scenario that you want to see if Ron was to hammer Mike as scum and survive that would put us in the situation where we still would not know Ron's alignment. So any which way what is your case on wanting to see Ron lynched?

[Dan Williams]

No I just meant 2 town losses on the actual lynch not taking into account the NK. I don't claim to be the best player but when I defend myself and I get called scum it just seems abit pointless defending myself. I feel that the town has no direction right now and that is only helpful to the scum and I believe that the scum are the ones causing this this is what is throwing me as I don't think the people we are naming as scum are actually the scum and the scum is someone else who is an active player like mike or even yourself bristep and possibly even carbomb (who seems to have gone to ground). I'm not saying you are scum but at the moment I think the town is being led by the mafia and driving us apart in a divide and conquer and Mike certainly knows enough about MS to try a tactic like that.

[Dan Williams]

Right just had a look and in the last night phase (13th dec) Ron was looking at snakes profile. This possibly could confirm the serial killer theory as you can PM from looking at someones profile, just thought this should be brought to peoples attention.

[Retro Red]

No I just meant 2 town losses on the actual lynch not taking into account the NK. I don't claim to be the best player but when I defend myself and I get called scum it just seems abit pointless defending myself. I feel that the town has no direction right now and that is only helpful to the scum and I believe that the scum are the ones causing this this is what is throwing me as I don't think the people we are naming as scum are actually the scum and the scum is someone else who is an active player like mike or even yourself bristep and possibly even carbomb (who seems to have gone to ground). I'm not saying you are scum but at the moment I think the town is being led by the mafia and driving us apart in a divide and conquer and Mike certainly knows enough about MS to try a tactic like that.

 

For the last couple of days you have been going along with Mike's plans and now after he (and myself to a lesser extent) points out your potentially scummy behaviour you all of a sudden think he (or Carbomb or myself) is mafia leading the town.

 

Build a case and show your workings Dan, because that's the first time you've mentioned this potentially game changing accusation (and although you have presented it in a wishy washy "Oh I feel the town has no direction, the suspects aren't really scum it's the people pointing the fingers who are scum" it is an accusation, or at least a FOS in as many words).

 

I've already said, I do not think you are scum but right now you are distracting the town from rooting out the best case for a lynch this phase.

 

Question for the group. Is it possible or likely that Snake would have inserted a traitor into the game? Because Dan's behaviour would fit that (gets himself lynched, flips town and leads everyone in the wrong direction). If a traitor is lynched, do they flip town traitor? Or does it show up as just regular town? (Because if they flip traitor then that makes my point moot).

[Dan Williams]

If you read what I said I actually said I suspected none of the people named but that I feel that pretty much anyone could be scum and that they could have integrated with the town to the point they are leading us away from the lynch as it seems that the town is pretty directionless right now.

[Retro Red]

Right just had a look and in the last night phase (13th dec) Ron was looking at snakes profile. This possibly could confirm the serial killer theory as you can PM from looking at someones profile, just thought this should be brought to peoples attention.

 

Ron? Why did you look at Snake's profile during the last night phase?

 

It's worth noting, but I don't think it's enough to confirm that he is a SK.

[Dan Williams]

But it has worked in previous games to find Scum roles and power roles

[Retro Red]

If you read what I said I actually said I suspected none of the people named but that I feel that pretty much anyone could be scum and that they could have integrated with the town to the point they are leading us away from the lynch as it seems that the town is pretty directionless right now.

 

Actually you did.

 

I don't claim to be the best player but when I defend myself and I get called scum it just seems abit pointless defending myself. I feel that the town has no direction right now and that is only helpful to the scum and I believe that the scum are the ones causing this this is what is throwing me as I don't think the people we are naming as scum are actually the scum and the scum is someone else who is an active player like mike or even yourself bristep and possibly even carbomb (who seems to have gone to ground). I'm not saying you are scum but at the moment I think the town is being led by the mafia and driving us apart in a divide and conquer and Mike certainly knows enough about MS to try a tactic like that.

 

Of course you quantify it by saying "Oh I totally don't mean you guys, I meant another active poster who is trying to lead the game" then point at Mike because he has the experience to pull it off. It's an accusation Dan, at least back it up when you are called up on it.

 

The town isn't directionless, the town was moving towards a lynch on Family Guy with a plan to have one of the other suspects potentially hammer Mike next day. This has all been put aside today because of all the focus on you. The problem is the usual glut of inactive posters who seem to miraculously post shortly after their name comes up for being inactive not properly following or contributing to the game.

[Retro Red]

But it has worked in previous games to find Scum roles and power roles

 

Can you show me some examples? Or can someone else confirm this? I still dont' think that it is a strong enough tell to 100% confirm.

[The Icon]

Following on from what Dan said, we seem to be directionless right now, and going with a 'Throw some shit and see what sticks' ploy.

 

People keep coming up with telling me I've played a scummy game, without a lot of reasoning. It's come from Ron's hunch that I apparently am playing a different game to how I'd normally play. This has been followed up with no basis, no reasoning, just a 'hunch' stemming from an argument we had on day one, and as of then, I've had to deal with nothing but baseless suspicion from him.

 

The 'I know your town' line was nothing more than me trying to get him to back off, at the point where I felt we were having a town vs town discussion, which was going to get us nowhere but a mislynch. Since that point we've had this 'I'm a PGO' tripe, which I thought had been picked apart. I've been very transparent with who I've been suspicious of, Nexus being one of those players, who turned out to have a powerful scum role. It's hardly a role I would throw under the bus that early in the game, as when I first mentioned my suspicion of him, it was barely noted.

 

I wasn't 'jumping on a bandwagon' as was suggested from (I believe) Carbomb, when I switched my vote to Mike Castle, because he had come up with a plan which in my opinion, rid the Town of the two players I was most suspicious of, in Mike C and Ron. It would have been hypocritical of me not to agree to that course of action.

 

Bristep threw one of the lamest ducks my way when asking why I cut some of Ron's post. I was posting on my phone, and lost half of it, all it was was him asking me to explain myself when I pretty much addressed that point in the following post.

 

No-one has shown me where I've been overly scummy, I have no role, I have no powers, I'm your bog standard WWE Superstar, which I've stated from earlier in the game. Lynch me and you won't really lose much, but you certainly won't gain anything, and you'll have let the scum lead you into a mislynch.

 

I'm hearing a lot of 'It's not my preferred choice, but if that's where we're going, I'll vote FGPMSL', so my question to Chris_B, Burchill's Buddy (who granted has yet to vote for me, but said he will if it's required to lynch) and anyone else following that path is, don't you think that if all of you feel that way, that's a hefty block of votes to lynch me, based on the assumptions and accusations of a small minority of players? Don't you see that as being lead into a lynch? Surely you have enough confidence in your own convictions to vote elsewhere.

[Retro Red]

Following on from what Dan said, we seem to be directionless right now, and going with a 'Throw some shit and see what sticks' ploy.

 

People keep coming up with telling me I've played a scummy game, without a lot of reasoning. It's come from Ron's hunch that I apparently am playing a different game to how I'd normally play. This has been followed up with no basis, no reasoning, just a 'hunch' stemming from an argument we had on day one, and as of then, I've had to deal with nothing but baseless suspicion from him.

 

The 'I know your town' line was nothing more than me trying to get him to back off, at the point where I felt we were having a town vs town discussion, which was going to get us nowhere but a mislynch. Since that point we've had this 'I'm a PGO' tripe, which I thought had been picked apart. I've been very transparent with who I've been suspicious of, Nexus being one of those players, who turned out to have a powerful scum role. It's hardly a role I would throw under the bus that early in the game, as when I first mentioned my suspicion of him, it was barely noted.

 

I wasn't 'jumping on a bandwagon' as was suggested from (I believe) Carbomb, when I switched my vote to Mike Castle, because he had come up with a plan which in my opinion, rid the Town of the two players I was most suspicious of, in Mike C and Ron. It would have been hypocritical of me not to agree to that course of action.

 

Bristep threw one of the lamest ducks my way when asking why I cut some of Ron's post. I was posting on my phone, and lost half of it, all it was was him asking me to explain myself when I pretty much addressed that point in the following post.

 

No-one has shown me where I've been overly scummy, I have no role, I have no powers, I'm your bog standard WWE Superstar, which I've stated from earlier in the game. Lynch me and you won't really lose much, but you certainly won't gain anything, and you'll have let the scum lead you into a mislynch.

 

I'm hearing a lot of 'It's not my preferred choice, but if that's where we're going, I'll vote FGPMSL', so my question to Chris_B, Burchill's Buddy (who granted has yet to vote for me, but said he will if it's required to lynch) and anyone else following that path is, don't you think that if all of you feel that way, that's a hefty block of votes to lynch me, based on the assumptions and accusations of a small minority of players? Don't you see that as being lead into a lynch? Surely you have enough confidence in your own convictions to vote elsewhere.

 

You have provided an adequate answer to the point I made, it doesn't make it "lame duck" though, there was a reason why you left it off and you have provided it. No response of the rest of my post though. Focus on the weakest part of the argument, ignore the rest. I've seen that a lot in this game.

 

The problem is that people are putting points towards you and you are really just refuting them rather than discussing them. You have written a long statement here and referenced various players and posts but haven't provided any links. You start by trying to blame it all on Ron, that people have been calling you scum because of 'Ron's hunch'. You are essentially telling us that Ron has managed to convince us all that you are scum, because he had a hunch? My own reasons for voting for you manifested at the end of the last day phase, with your constant super defensive play. At which point we were trying to work towards a lynch you were focused on attacking Ron for "tunnelling". I have seen enough in the game since then to believe that you are scum, and I've stated my reasons supported by quotes. Until you give me a case to believe otherwise, should I change my mind because you just tell me I'm wrong? Much like Dan you rely on the WIFOM argument (I voted for Nexus, why would I do that if I'm scum?), discreditation and refusing to discuss points.

[The Icon]

Following on from what Dan said, we seem to be directionless right now, and going with a 'Throw some shit and see what sticks' ploy.

 

People keep coming up with telling me I've played a scummy game, without a lot of reasoning. It's come from Ron's hunch that I apparently am playing a different game to how I'd normally play. This has been followed up with no basis, no reasoning, just a 'hunch' stemming from an argument we had on day one, and as of then, I've had to deal with nothing but baseless suspicion from him.

 

The 'I know your town' line was nothing more than me trying to get him to back off, at the point where I felt we were having a town vs town discussion, which was going to get us nowhere but a mislynch. Since that point we've had this 'I'm a PGO' tripe, which I thought had been picked apart. I've been very transparent with who I've been suspicious of, Nexus being one of those players, who turned out to have a powerful scum role. It's hardly a role I would throw under the bus that early in the game, as when I first mentioned my suspicion of him, it was barely noted.

 

I wasn't 'jumping on a bandwagon' as was suggested from (I believe) Carbomb, when I switched my vote to Mike Castle, because he had come up with a plan which in my opinion, rid the Town of the two players I was most suspicious of, in Mike C and Ron. It would have been hypocritical of me not to agree to that course of action.

 

Bristep threw one of the lamest ducks my way when asking why I cut some of Ron's post. I was posting on my phone, and lost half of it, all it was was him asking me to explain myself when I pretty much addressed that point in the following post.

 

No-one has shown me where I've been overly scummy, I have no role, I have no powers, I'm your bog standard WWE Superstar, which I've stated from earlier in the game. Lynch me and you won't really lose much, but you certainly won't gain anything, and you'll have let the scum lead you into a mislynch.

 

I'm hearing a lot of 'It's not my preferred choice, but if that's where we're going, I'll vote FGPMSL', so my question to Chris_B, Burchill's Buddy (who granted has yet to vote for me, but said he will if it's required to lynch) and anyone else following that path is, don't you think that if all of you feel that way, that's a hefty block of votes to lynch me, based on the assumptions and accusations of a small minority of players? Don't you see that as being lead into a lynch? Surely you have enough confidence in your own convictions to vote elsewhere.

 

You have provided an adequate answer to the point I made, it doesn't make it "lame duck" though, there was a reason why you left it off and you have provided it. No response of the rest of my post though. Focus on the weakest part of the argument, ignore the rest. I've seen that a lot in this game.

 

The problem is that people are putting points towards you and you are really just refuting them rather than discussing them. You have written a long statement here and referenced various players and posts but haven't provided any links. You start by trying to blame it all on Ron, that people have been calling you scum because of 'Ron's hunch'. You are essentially telling us that Ron has managed to convince us all that you are scum, because he had a hunch? My own reasons for voting for you manifested at the end of the last day phase, with your constant super defensive play. At which point we were trying to work towards a lynch you were focused on attacking Ron for "tunnelling". I have seen enough in the game since then to believe that you are scum, and I've stated my reasons supported by quotes. Until you give me a case to believe otherwise, should I change my mind because you just tell me I'm wrong? Much like Dan you rely on the WIFOM argument (I voted for Nexus, why would I do that if I'm scum?), discreditation and refusing to discuss points.

 

I hardly think the fact that I fingered the Scum Roleblocker on the first day when there was no pressure to do so is WIFOM, it's a case of that would be the stupidest scum play in history. I wasn't overly defensive in the last day phase, I was responding to repeatedly baseless accusations. What other parts of your post would you like me to respond to, because all I recall was you asking me to explain why I said I thought Ron was town, which I have in the above post.

[Chris B]

Okay then Chris, why is that your happier to lynch the most popular suspect rather than the one you consider scummiest?

 

I'm not happier to lynch the most popular suspect. It's not my choice who we lynch - it's only my choice who I vote for. The suggestion of who I'm happier to lynch should be clear by who I voted for first. I haven't changed my vote because I suddenly think FG is definitely scummier. It's because if I can't get my first choice, I'll go to someone I'm less happy with, because otherwise, I may as well vote for a no-lynch, and that's my least-preferred option.

 

If you want to see Ron be the hammer on a Mike lynch then surely you should be making a case on both Mike and Ron being scum?

 

I think it's more likely to be 'either', not 'both'. I'm pretty sure one of them is lying, but I don't know which one.

 

And if you consider that Ron is scum why would you not just want to outright lynch him?

 

Because I'm more convinced that one of them is scum than I am convinced which one it is. If we take them both out, and one of them is scum, I'm happy with that outcome - however, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Not least because, despite it being Mike's suggestion, he's now dead-set against it.

 

As I can see the argument for someone who is going to be lynched anyway opting to take the hammer vote on Mike in cause he is lying but if you consider that both Mike and Ron are scum which as I say seems to be the only reason to take the scenario that you want to see if Ron was to hammer Mike as scum and survive that would put us in the situation where we still would not know Ron's alignment. So any which way what is your case on wanting to see Ron lynched?

 

I don't consider that both of them are scum. That seems unlikely, unless they're pushing really hard to avoid either being lynched, and trying a madcap scheme to do so. Mike's claim was, for me, a game changer, because it presents us with a unique situation.

 

If Ron (town) hammers Mike (scum) and survives, I see that as a good thing. It means Mike was caught out as lying and got lynched - and I can definitely see the argument about it, because if nobody is willing to take the risk to hammer it home, it's a play that sees him through to the end of the game - that benefits town.

 

If Ron (scum) hammers Mike (town), then he'll die, because Mike must be telling the truth. I really don't buy this idea that Mike, as town, is bluffing. He's been the one in past games to push home the point that town have no reason to lie. I may not believe Mike's play entirely in this game, but I do believe that he's likely to stick by that kind of playing.

 

If Ron (town) hammers Mike (town)...well, that's bad. That's obviously bad. But I really think that one of them is lying. If it's Ron, it explains why he's so adamant that Mike may be lying, but he believes his intentions are good. If it's Mike, then his plan backfires (which may be, once a wagon began to form on it, he backed away from the idea).

[Chris B]

I'm hearing a lot of 'It's not my preferred choice, but if that's where we're going, I'll vote FGPMSL', so my question to Chris_B, Burchill's Buddy (who granted has yet to vote for me, but said he will if it's required to lynch) and anyone else following that path is, don't you think that if all of you feel that way, that's a hefty block of votes to lynch me, based on the assumptions and accusations of a small minority of players? Don't you see that as being lead into a lynch? Surely you have enough confidence in your own convictions to vote elsewhere.

 

I have the confidence in my convictions to vote elsewhere. It's why I originally did vote elsewhere. I don't, however, have the confidence in my ability to convince everybody else that they should vote the way I think they should.

[wolfvinson]

A way past bedtime report.

 

Swiftstrike IS scum.

 

I believe he has not played scum before, as a replacement he has jumped on a new player. I'm convinced this explains his 'new' way of posting.

 

unvote FG

 

Vote Swiftstrike