Snake's WWE Invasion 'Royal Mafia Rumble'

[Mafia Scum Scum]

I do strongly feel that the rather strange circumstances I was experiencing in my real life played a part in leading me to be lynched as I don't feel many people believed me.

 

I was just being honest as to why I wasn't posting so much.

 

I think the thing that finished me off was the quote by Chris B (I think) about Snake quoting in a previous game about not using roleblockers.

 

I was town so couldn't lie about my role so I was pretty much screwed by a combination of things.

 

The post about the role not being used by Snake would have led to me possibly voting for whoever had that role, so I can't complain too much, but still felt people should have trusted me more as I won't lie about my personal life to win a game and at least I actually make an effort to post and play the game.

[Burchill's Buddy]

I do strongly feel that the rather strange circumstances I was experiencing in my real life played a part in leading me to be lynched as I don't feel many people believed me.

 

I was just being honest as to why I wasn't posting so much.

 

I think the thing that finished me off was the quote by Chris B (I think) about Snake quoting in a previous game about not using roleblockers.

 

I was town so couldn't lie about my role so I was pretty much screwed by a combination of things.

 

The post about the role not being used by Snake would have led to me possibly voting for whoever had that role, so I can't complain too much, but still felt people should have trusted me more as I won't lie about my personal life to win a game and at least I actually make an effort to post and play the game.

I think that was Lawz, to be fair to him it was a very clever move (now that the game is over I think we can see Lawz actually played a bit of a blinder this game, it's almost a shame his plan for Mike and Ron to bomb / shoot each other didn't pay off, because it would have been one of the best plays we've had on this site) anyway it was certainly that quote that led me to vote for you.

[Chris B]

I do strongly feel that the rather strange circumstances I was experiencing in my real life played a part in leading me to be lynched as I don't feel many people believed me.

 

I was just being honest as to why I wasn't posting so much.

 

I think the thing that finished me off was the quote by Chris B (I think) about Snake quoting in a previous game about not using roleblockers.

 

I was town so couldn't lie about my role so I was pretty much screwed by a combination of things.

 

The post about the role not being used by Snake would have led to me possibly voting for whoever had that role, so I can't complain too much, but still felt people should have trusted me more as I won't lie about my personal life to win a game and at least I actually make an effort to post and play the game.

I think that was Lawz, to be fair to him it was a very clever move (now that the game is over I think we can see Lawz actually played a bit of a blinder this game, it's almost a shame his plan for Mike and Ron to bomb / shoot each other didn't pay off, because it would have been one of the best plays we've had on this site) anyway it was certainly that quote that led me to vote for you.

 

It was actually Brownie that found that, although we decided Lawz should be the one to post it.

[Retro Red]

the flavour used was read into far too much by Mr 'I don't like flavour' Mike Castle.

I was right though wasn't I? Also, I actually do like flavour, I'm just shit when it comes to reading much of it. It would be hard to say I don't like flavour when you consider the Mutiny game, all things considered. I think that game had the most attempt at putting in flavour of any thus far, considering I had videos for every lynch and such.

 

Day 2 I have already mentioned and will skip. My decision with the power of the PGO and the Bomb was mainly due to the Scum team being quite heavily powered with the Governor and Rolecop. Town just had a Macho Cop (One who can't be protected) which got a Guilty or innocent verdict the doc, roleblocker and Hider. I felt the town needed a bit more balancing. I was going to put in a couple of masons (Taker & Kane) one who was part of scum team and the other town, but I thought it might make things a bit too complicated and also the brothers would had been too easy to pick out.

Regarding the town roles, I think town was still overpowered. (Incidentally, yes the Governor role was also a godfather, strictly speaking a governor isn't investigation immune. I think perhaps that role was a smidgen overpowered. One of the goons could have been made a straight godfather role while leaving the governor role in there). When you consider that town had 2 investigation roles (hider counts as investigation role, because it's meant to confirm people who look town, or in some cases, allow town to know if a certain player is scum or not), and then two roles that hurt anyone attacking them, it ran the risk of scum being stuffed almost in one night (Say the hider announces his role and that he's targetting carbomb night one. Cop targets Chris B, brownie targets Ron, and Lawz targets me. Boom, 4 scum gone pretty much in one phase).

 

I was actually discussing this with Nexus the other day (he's got a game to run on MS shortly, and so was discussing balancing etc.) and so I was going over things with him, and unless you have a real large game (25 players or so) it's best to keep it to a single investigation role. Though I will give top marks for the Macho Cop role. Anything that prevents a risk of follow the cop (Cop announces that he's the cop, doc just protects him leaving scum to run around trying to kill the doc while the cop confirms whether people are town or scum) is a plus in my book. It's one reason I like the jailkeeper role, even if it is slightly overpowered compared to basic doc/roleblocker roles.

 

With the PGO, as I said in thread, it's much better as one use. I think had you made it solely one use the game would have been relatively balanced even with the two investigation roles. An unlimited use PGO is always a bad idea because it can completely decimate one side or the other (or even both).

 

The biggest problem though that the town faced was the scum team, they were possibly the best organised bunch that discussed everything and planned together without ego, thus allowing them to manipulate proceedings quite easily as the various elements of town continued to bicker between themselves (Castle, Simmons, Family Guy and while he was alive TripleA). If Lawz's play had of worked this game would have been done a lot earlier. I also should point out that it was a bit harsh to lynch SMS day1 for his personal issues....

I agree, the scum team played a blinder. Well except Nexus going a bit nutty and not realizing he was getting a tad too aggressive. Thing is, that's just his playstyle, a bit like how I talk too much (though that's me in general) and tend to spot something and go nuts over it. (Which I need to fix... the problem with known scum tells is that the scum tend to also know not to be stupid enough to do them... as Chris said, it's likely best to catch them on inconsistancies... another reason swift is brilliant, he keeps tabs on who everyone is pushing, why they are etc. Which lends itself beautifully to catching people out. It also means he's unlikely to be inconsistant when scum too. It might be an idea for me to try a similar way, it will make it easier to pick up on things, and stop me diving around stupidly at points. Though I wont stop calling people on RVS stuff, if it drags us from RVS I'll do it regardless ).

 

As for SMS... yeah, it was rather harsh, but it's easier to say that in retrospect, or if you knew he was town. If you weren't sure... well I don't think it was lynching him because of his personal issues, just that for some they were the final straw. I think is that was the only case on him that people had, he'd not have been lynched. But I'm not about to go and re-read to check.

 

Towns saving grace's though were both Swifstrike swapping in ( No surprises there) and Bristep123, who is an excellent addition to the game. Mike Castle's sweeping statements of '**** is scum I know it' which generally were wrong probably kepot the light off the scum for large portions of the game. I think that going forward everyone should try and discard how people played and experience level as well and treat each game as a first game. I think I mentioned that last time.

Too damned right. Bristep was brilliant, I called him on a few things I didn't like early on, he responded brilliantly, and proceeded to be a great addition. Although his voting of Corey when he did was questionable (I had said I would do the honours if no other lynch could be agreed by deadline after all), but other than that it was solid play. I was actually surprised he was night killed though. I expected the scum to leave him in to be a potential easy lynch on the basis of "I didn't like Mike's idea, and you did it anyway, why would you do that when we could have lynched X who was scummier?" Or something similar.

 

Not sure about treating everything like a first game. But I would suggest don't ever assume anyone is a better or worse player than you or someone else. Someone who played like crap in one game, may play a blinder in another, and vice versa. For instance, I played beautifully in Square-Enix 3 (Or was it 4...? Ah well) over on MS, calling a scum player before anyone else ever considered them, and even after I died they almost let him get away. Then you get my play here which was, in all fairness. Shit outside of my initial reads of Chris B and brownie. Of course as has been said, it was impossible for me to ever get either lynch going as, despite my initial strong pushing of Nexus to his lynch (Which in fairness I was surprised wasn't turned on me on the basis of "You were tunnelling him for so long, how do we know you weren't just bussing him because you already knew he was scum as you're his buddy?") It meant what I thought couldn't be trusted so much after a couple of bad lynches for us.

 

The other thing around the L-1 penalties. The idea behind it is a final chance to get back in thread. Also when Dan used the chance to save himself he effectively gave you an extra day as if you had lynched someone else Chris Stone was going to be modkilled overnight and with a mafia kill the game would have ended a day earlier. We definetly need to make sure that if you are comitting to play in a game that you can actually put the time to it as this obviously damaged towns chances of winning. I didn't like using the penalties, they were meant to be more threat that anything else, but then I ran out of replacements and had no choice. (But then in a large game like this we will always strugglke for extra players)

I'd still say drop the L-1 penalties. Much as a mod kill should harm the side it's on, I think this is one of the games where it also proves that sometimes punishing the entire side they're on is a huge problem because we can't get them in and post. One person being modkilled isn't so much of an issue, 3 takes the piss.

 

That being said, I'm not entirely sure what the best other option is. Short of putting the player on an insta-ban for the next game (Whether the next game by that mod (though it's the mod's option to allow/ban anyone they wish anyway), or the next game in general. I guess that's likely best decided by everyone) I don't know how to stamp it out.

 

Perhaps a three strikes rule? If you flake on a game three times out of 10 (just as a for instance) then you're out period. That allows for people who have things come up they can't prevent to not be booted out (being taken to hospital, family emergencies, computer blows up etc.), but also forces anyone who winds up just flaking in general to be kicked aside. Thoughts guys?

 

Finally thanks to everyone for bearing with me throughout this game which was hampered by my issues during day 2 and the Christmas period which I also think caused the game to become a bit fragmented. I would also suggest that we only run large games sparringly and/or run a couple of smaller games side by side so those who want to play can. In fact we could have 2 leagues one for experienced and one for beginners?

I agree with running large games sparingly. I'd say perhaps a max of 15 players per game, which allows a few potential standby's, and anyone who wasn't in the last game gets first shout at being in the next one, which gives newbies a chance to get in on the action before the more veteran players.

 

Not sure about two leagues though, we don't have enough players for that. We struggled for 20 players in this one (when you consider that we had 3 flakes (Or was it 4) that got replaced, then 3 flakes that didn't get replaced... that means we only had 17 players out of 23/24 that stuck around fully. That would be two "leagues" of 8/9 players with a few floating. I think that's too few.

 

Anyone who wants to step up to "experienced" can always head over to Mafia Scum itself and play a more time intensive game there with a bigger variety of people. I'd say roll with what I said above, have a max of 15/16 players per game, and once they're full, people can /in as a replacement and those who show interest after it's full can get a PM for the following game from the next mod (thus anyone who wants in Nexus' game but can't get in, I'll PM first to see if they want in PYP and such). How's that sound to people?

 

I registered on Mafia Scum but haven't had been activated yet.

[Chris_Stone]

Just dropped in to say i'm REALLY sorry I didn't post once i got into this game, My computer died again (is still dead) and didn't really have anything to look at this on other than the Ipod which really wouldn't have worked well.

 

Sorry guys

[Burchill's Buddy]

Not to be a bastard, but a one liner to say you weren't going to be able to play and could you be replaced might have helped Chris

[Ron Simmons]

the flavour used was read into far too much by Mr 'I don't like flavour' Mike Castle.

I was right though wasn't I? Also, I actually do like flavour, I'm just shit when it comes to reading much of it. It would be hard to say I don't like flavour when you consider the Mutiny game, all things considered. I think that game had the most attempt at putting in flavour of any thus far, considering I had videos for every lynch and such.

 

Day 2 I have already mentioned and will skip. My decision with the power of the PGO and the Bomb was mainly due to the Scum team being quite heavily powered with the Governor and Rolecop. Town just had a Macho Cop (One who can't be protected) which got a Guilty or innocent verdict the doc, roleblocker and Hider. I felt the town needed a bit more balancing. I was going to put in a couple of masons (Taker & Kane) one who was part of scum team and the other town, but I thought it might make things a bit too complicated and also the brothers would had been too easy to pick out.

Regarding the town roles, I think town was still overpowered. (Incidentally, yes the Governor role was also a godfather, strictly speaking a governor isn't investigation immune. I think perhaps that role was a smidgen overpowered. One of the goons could have been made a straight godfather role while leaving the governor role in there). When you consider that town had 2 investigation roles (hider counts as investigation role, because it's meant to confirm people who look town, or in some cases, allow town to know if a certain player is scum or not), and then two roles that hurt anyone attacking them, it ran the risk of scum being stuffed almost in one night (Say the hider announces his role and that he's targetting carbomb night one. Cop targets Chris B, brownie targets Ron, and Lawz targets me. Boom, 4 scum gone pretty much in one phase).

 

I was actually discussing this with Nexus the other day (he's got a game to run on MS shortly, and so was discussing balancing etc.) and so I was going over things with him, and unless you have a real large game (25 players or so) it's best to keep it to a single investigation role. Though I will give top marks for the Macho Cop role. Anything that prevents a risk of follow the cop (Cop announces that he's the cop, doc just protects him leaving scum to run around trying to kill the doc while the cop confirms whether people are town or scum) is a plus in my book. It's one reason I like the jailkeeper role, even if it is slightly overpowered compared to basic doc/roleblocker roles.

 

With the PGO, as I said in thread, it's much better as one use. I think had you made it solely one use the game would have been relatively balanced even with the two investigation roles. An unlimited use PGO is always a bad idea because it can completely decimate one side or the other (or even both).

 

The biggest problem though that the town faced was the scum team, they were possibly the best organised bunch that discussed everything and planned together without ego, thus allowing them to manipulate proceedings quite easily as the various elements of town continued to bicker between themselves (Castle, Simmons, Family Guy and while he was alive TripleA). If Lawz's play had of worked this game would have been done a lot earlier. I also should point out that it was a bit harsh to lynch SMS day1 for his personal issues....

I agree, the scum team played a blinder. Well except Nexus going a bit nutty and not realizing he was getting a tad too aggressive. Thing is, that's just his playstyle, a bit like how I talk too much (though that's me in general) and tend to spot something and go nuts over it. (Which I need to fix... the problem with known scum tells is that the scum tend to also know not to be stupid enough to do them... as Chris said, it's likely best to catch them on inconsistancies... another reason swift is brilliant, he keeps tabs on who everyone is pushing, why they are etc. Which lends itself beautifully to catching people out. It also means he's unlikely to be inconsistant when scum too. It might be an idea for me to try a similar way, it will make it easier to pick up on things, and stop me diving around stupidly at points. Though I wont stop calling people on RVS stuff, if it drags us from RVS I'll do it regardless ).

 

As for SMS... yeah, it was rather harsh, but it's easier to say that in retrospect, or if you knew he was town. If you weren't sure... well I don't think it was lynching him because of his personal issues, just that for some they were the final straw. I think is that was the only case on him that people had, he'd not have been lynched. But I'm not about to go and re-read to check.

 

Towns saving grace's though were both Swifstrike swapping in ( No surprises there) and Bristep123, who is an excellent addition to the game. Mike Castle's sweeping statements of '**** is scum I know it' which generally were wrong probably kepot the light off the scum for large portions of the game. I think that going forward everyone should try and discard how people played and experience level as well and treat each game as a first game. I think I mentioned that last time.

Too damned right. Bristep was brilliant, I called him on a few things I didn't like early on, he responded brilliantly, and proceeded to be a great addition. Although his voting of Corey when he did was questionable (I had said I would do the honours if no other lynch could be agreed by deadline after all), but other than that it was solid play. I was actually surprised he was night killed though. I expected the scum to leave him in to be a potential easy lynch on the basis of "I didn't like Mike's idea, and you did it anyway, why would you do that when we could have lynched X who was scummier?" Or something similar.

 

Not sure about treating everything like a first game. But I would suggest don't ever assume anyone is a better or worse player than you or someone else. Someone who played like crap in one game, may play a blinder in another, and vice versa. For instance, I played beautifully in Square-Enix 3 (Or was it 4...? Ah well) over on MS, calling a scum player before anyone else ever considered them, and even after I died they almost let him get away. Then you get my play here which was, in all fairness. Shit outside of my initial reads of Chris B and brownie. Of course as has been said, it was impossible for me to ever get either lynch going as, despite my initial strong pushing of Nexus to his lynch (Which in fairness I was surprised wasn't turned on me on the basis of "You were tunnelling him for so long, how do we know you weren't just bussing him because you already knew he was scum as you're his buddy?") It meant what I thought couldn't be trusted so much after a couple of bad lynches for us.

 

The other thing around the L-1 penalties. The idea behind it is a final chance to get back in thread. Also when Dan used the chance to save himself he effectively gave you an extra day as if you had lynched someone else Chris Stone was going to be modkilled overnight and with a mafia kill the game would have ended a day earlier. We definetly need to make sure that if you are comitting to play in a game that you can actually put the time to it as this obviously damaged towns chances of winning. I didn't like using the penalties, they were meant to be more threat that anything else, but then I ran out of replacements and had no choice. (But then in a large game like this we will always strugglke for extra players)

I'd still say drop the L-1 penalties. Much as a mod kill should harm the side it's on, I think this is one of the games where it also proves that sometimes punishing the entire side they're on is a huge problem because we can't get them in and post. One person being modkilled isn't so much of an issue, 3 takes the piss.

 

That being said, I'm not entirely sure what the best other option is. Short of putting the player on an insta-ban for the next game (Whether the next game by that mod (though it's the mod's option to allow/ban anyone they wish anyway), or the next game in general. I guess that's likely best decided by everyone) I don't know how to stamp it out.

 

Perhaps a three strikes rule? If you flake on a game three times out of 10 (just as a for instance) then you're out period. That allows for people who have things come up they can't prevent to not be booted out (being taken to hospital, family emergencies, computer blows up etc.), but also forces anyone who winds up just flaking in general to be kicked aside. Thoughts guys?

 

Finally thanks to everyone for bearing with me throughout this game which was hampered by my issues during day 2 and the Christmas period which I also think caused the game to become a bit fragmented. I would also suggest that we only run large games sparringly and/or run a couple of smaller games side by side so those who want to play can. In fact we could have 2 leagues one for experienced and one for beginners?

I agree with running large games sparingly. I'd say perhaps a max of 15 players per game, which allows a few potential standby's, and anyone who wasn't in the last game gets first shout at being in the next one, which gives newbies a chance to get in on the action before the more veteran players.

 

Not sure about two leagues though, we don't have enough players for that. We struggled for 20 players in this one (when you consider that we had 3 flakes (Or was it 4) that got replaced, then 3 flakes that didn't get replaced... that means we only had 17 players out of 23/24 that stuck around fully. That would be two "leagues" of 8/9 players with a few floating. I think that's too few.

 

Anyone who wants to step up to "experienced" can always head over to Mafia Scum itself and play a more time intensive game there with a bigger variety of people. I'd say roll with what I said above, have a max of 15/16 players per game, and once they're full, people can /in as a replacement and those who show interest after it's full can get a PM for the following game from the next mod (thus anyone who wants in Nexus' game but can't get in, I'll PM first to see if they want in PYP and such). How's that sound to people?

 

I registered on Mafia Scum but haven't had been activated yet.

Same here. I registered ages ago but there's been no progress other than an e-mail telling me it would be activated a few months ago.

[Mike Castle]

If you both gimmie your names on the site, I'll see if I can't get it chased up guys. (And please, I know I wrote a lot... but no need to quote a massive wall-o-text to respond with a single line).

 

and BB, you're right, had Lawz and co. pulled off me being lynched and the hammer being Ron it would likely be one of the best plays period. It's actually the type of play that, if it worked on MS itself, would be nominated for a scummy I think (their awards).

 

and yeah SMS, the roleblocker thing, now you mention it, was likely the real nail in the coffin. It was a masterstroke by scum, and I wont fault them for it in the slightest. Though I do feel that it was a bit bad to put it in deliberately after saying "I don't like to include roleblockers" or whatever Snake said, purely because it's then mod WIFOM. But then I suppose anything can be seen as that. I don't like cops and docs together. That's not to say I wont put them together under any circumstances. Just that it's more unlikely to happen in my games than most. And the more you play with people, the more you know whether you like or dislike certain roles, and over time that becomes rather known to everyone else and so on.

[Retro Red]

If you both gimmie your names on the site, I'll see if I can't get it chased up guys.

 

Same as on here, bristep123

[swiftstrike]

Looking over Chris B advise for town I think that is fairly spot on the only thing I might add is look up from what you are doing every now and again and by that I mean if you are having an argument/pushing a case with someone that you are sure is scum try to remember that whether that person is or isn't scum you will often have to try find a few more scum so take your head out of that argument and go back a few pages and look at what EVERYONE is saying as you might spot something else that could be vital and could actually be just as important as what you are currently looking at.

[Ron Simmons]

Looking over Chris B advise for town I think that is fairly spot on the only thing I might add is look up from what you are doing every now and again and by that I mean if you are having an argument/pushing a case with someone that you are sure is scum try to remember that whether that person is or isn't scum you will often have to try find a few more scum so take your head out of that argument and go back a few pages and look at what EVERYONE is saying as you might spot something else that could be vital and could actually be just as important as what you are currently looking at.

To be fair in this game there wasn't really much to indicate that any of the remaining scum were actually scum. I think if we'd lynched more carefully we'd have given ourselves a better chance of winning the game, though to be honest the scum played such a good game I wonder if we'd even have caught the scum players then.

[insert_name_here]

Thank you snake for this game, i really enjoyed it and i'm definitly gonna have to take part in some more.

Hopefully i'll last a little longer next time i play and now that i've got a little more experience i should be able to contribute more to the game.