General politics discussion thread

[Bashar]

I had an Assisted Place (ie the Government paid the fees, cheers Maggie ) at an independent school - I didn't like it much really, it was probably good for me for the first five years but I'd probably have been better off at a different sixth-form; but if I had left, my bro Jamie may not have got in. When I joined in 1990, fees were around

[Bashar]

It's a TV programme. How it is interpreted is up to the person watching it. I find it hard to see how it could be read as a vindication of leftist ideas, however. Baltimore's been run by the Democrats since time immemorial. Clay Davis is a democrat.

Jesus. Please stop seeing everything as black and white, repubs vs dems, labour/tory left vs right. How can you be this thick?

 

Yes you can interpret TV shows any way you like, but if you're happy that drug addicts (even when you've been shown the full tragedy of their back story/mental health problems/societal problems/upbringing/surrounding/life chances) are left to die in the gutter unless they're lucky enough to pull themselves out of it, then a. you've completely missed the point that the programme makers were trying to convey and b. you're a fucking psychopath.

 

Quite. But also, Bubbles only ultimately gets clean through state intervention - he is 'sectioned' because he is a suicide risk; though admittedly he stays clean with the help of a 'big society' Narcotics Anonymous. Nonetheless, the point of the whole thing is that he has to 'cause' the death of Sherrod and attempt suicide before he can get the help he needs, and even then this is only because Jay Landsmen shows compassion and doesn't charge him with the death. He didn't have some magical libertarian epiphany.

[bobbins]

It's a TV programme. How it is interpreted is up to the person watching it. I find it hard to see how it could be read as a vindication of leftist ideas, however. Baltimore's been run by the Democrats since time immemorial. Clay Davis is a democrat.

Jesus. Please stop seeing everything as black and white, repubs vs dems, labour/tory left vs right. How can you be this thick?

 

Yes you can interpret TV shows any way you like, but if you're happy that drug addicts (even when you've been shown the full tragedy of their back story/mental health problems/societal problems/upbringing/surrounding/life chances) are left to die in the gutter unless they're lucky enough to pull themselves out of it, then a. you've completely missed the point that the programme makers were trying to convey and b. you're a fucking psychopath.

 

Quite. But also, Bubbles only ultimately gets clean through state intervention - he is 'sectioned' because he is a suicide risk; though admittedly he stays clean with the help of a 'big society' Narcotics Anonymous. Nonetheless, the point of the whole thing is that he has to 'cause' the death of Sherrod and attempt suicide before he can get the help he needs, and even then this is only because Jay Landsmen shows compassion and doesn't charge him with the death. He didn't have some magical libertarian epiphany.

Yes. I was wondering whether Steve Earle's big society group would have had any public funds.

 

Why would I be happy about it?

Sorry, "happy" was a bad choice of words. What I meant is that you would prefer it if drug addicts died in the gutter rather than being helped by the state. This is the exact opposite of David Simon's intention.

 

That's how I watched it too. It wasn't me that started making assertions of "how can you enjoy the Wire and have the political views that you do". It was lauded across all the media, from left to right.

LEFT VS RIGHT!!!!!

[MinceMcMahon]

Private schools are a joke. Their top students are no brighter than students at most state schools.

 

I wish the UK was more technocratic like parts of Northern Europe. In certain scientific and engineering professions, you'll rise to the top no matter what your background is (as long as you're good enough).

[Loki]

Private schools are a joke. Their top students are no brighter than students at most state schools.

 

Realistically, that's just not supported by the evidence, is it? I mean, anecdotally you might not think so, but exam results, university submissions and average lifetime wages suggest otherwise, I'd imagine.

[Happ Hazzard]

Private school pupils might not be any brighter than other kids when they start school, but they certainly are when they leave.

[Bashar]

Private Schools are generally pretty good at getting students through examinations, much more than that I'm not sure about. At the danger of playing into Happ's hands, if you're paying

[MinceMcMahon]

Private schools are a joke. Their top students are no brighter than students at most state schools.

 

Realistically, that's just not supported by the evidence, is it? I mean, anecdotally you might not think so, but exam results, university submissions and average lifetime wages suggest otherwise, I'd imagine.

 

What has that got to do with intelligence and ability? Private schools and certain universities are just networking centres for the upper middle class. Knowledge is available to everyone through the internet. If you want to learn about something, you can do it yourself. Education doesn't have to be top-down anymore.

 

Private schools just keep snobbery and class bullshit alive.

[Carbomb]

Private schools are a joke. Their top students are no brighter than students at most state schools.

 

Realistically, that's just not supported by the evidence, is it? I mean, anecdotally you might not think so, but exam results, university submissions and average lifetime wages suggest otherwise, I'd imagine.

 

What has that got to do with intelligence and ability? Private schools and certain universities are just networking centres for the upper middle class. Knowledge is available to everyone through the internet. If you want to learn about something, you can do it yourself. Education doesn't have to be top-down anymore.

 

Private schools just keep snobbery and class bullshit alive.

 

Wish I'd known that. I'd have kept my jodhpurs when I left, what.

[Loki]

What private schools teach you, much more than facts and figures, is HOW to learn, how to research, how to think independently. They tend to teach you, or give you access to information beyond the strict curriculum, and give access to greater resources than state schools.

 

I think the difference is much less than when I was young, to be fair. Back in the early 90s, years of Tory policies had left my local state school in a pretty shitty state. In the last 10 years or so it's had plenty of money pumped into it, its facilities have been updated, and its exam results have improved.

 

I don't think I'd send my kids to public school, but I won't pretend there aren't benefits.

[Carbomb]

What private schools teach you, much more than facts and figures, is HOW to learn, how to research, how to think independently. They tend to teach you, or give you access to information beyond the strict curriculum, and give access to greater resources than state schools.

 

I think the difference is much less than when I was young, to be fair. Back in the early 90s, years of Tory policies had left my local state school in a pretty shitty state. In the last 10 years or so it's had plenty of money pumped into it, its facilities have been updated, and its exam results have improved.

 

I don't think I'd send my kids to public school, but I won't pretend there aren't benefits.

 

Exactly; although, to be fair, I think it's more to do with the selection process as opposed to the funding. For example, in my catchment area, there's Latymer in Enfield, which is a state school that has an entrance exam for all potential new pupils. It's always been an excellent school, even during the Tory period, because it insists on fostering an atmosphere in which students can and are willing to learn. Unfortunately for me, I failed the exam (was my first proper exam ever, just wasn't used to it), and that was the only decent state school within range - had I passed, I almost certainly would've gone there.

 

Also, not ALL private schools are for the upper-class and the upper middle - my secondary offered plenty of scholarships and choristerships (i.e. you had to sing in the choir for either Temple or Chapel in the City) which allowed loads of working-class kids to go there. My family couldn't have afforded it if I hadn't got one.

[Glen Quagmire]

Where would Baltimore be without Capitalism? It's a port town. It relies on capitalism for the work that made people move there in the first place.

Err, it relies on trade, not capitalism. Granted that the trade that takes place is pretty much within a capitalist economic system, but trade is simply the transfer of goods ownership which has existed for many millennia before the modern capitalist system of commerce came to being, and exists in pretty much all economic systems.

[Loki]

Indeed, one could argue that it is free-market capitalism that has dried up the dock work that was the lifeblood of the city, the knock-on effect of which is the poverty and unemployment that we see in The Wire.

[Glen Quagmire]

Private schools are a joke. Their top students are no brighter than students at most state schools.

 

Realistically, that's just not supported by the evidence, is it? I mean, anecdotally you might not think so, but exam results, university submissions and average lifetime wages suggest otherwise, I'd imagine.

 

What has that got to do with intelligence and ability? Private schools and certain universities are just networking centres for the upper middle class. Knowledge is available to everyone through the internet. If you want to learn about something, you can do it yourself. Education doesn't have to be top-down anymore.

 

Private schools just keep snobbery and class bullshit alive.

Viewing from afar, the private school system does have a lot of networking involved in it. However all educational establishments (private, state & university) that consider themselves elite does have a lot of networking going on, there's no denying it. I know of a couple of companies that in the past (it may have changed) in Belfast where if you didn't attend a Grammar school they threw your CV in the bin, even if you got a Masters from Queens!

 

If a non-educational establishment or club were to network in the same way regarding favouritism and subverting meritocracy in high places, some damn good questions would be asked and answers demanded, but the old school tie networks rarely come under the same scrutiny. At the significantly very high risk of contamination of agreeing with the likes of Bill O'Reily on one single point, the networking within the Ivy League universities in the USA is one of the biggest examples of this.

[Happ Hazzard]

Indeed, one could argue that it is free-market capitalism that has dried up the dock work that was the lifeblood of the city, the knock-on effect of which is the poverty and unemployment that we see in The Wire.

I don't see how you can seperate the capitalism that took the work away from the capitalism that created the jobs in the first place.