General politics discussion thread

[WildSybianRider]

A big sovereign nation isn't your local cornershop. Running at a deficit is a part of modern international macroeconomics. The deficit is a handy excuse for the Conservatives to impose their ideology.

 

re: income tax. Kenny's half nailed it with VAT but beyond that, the couple of hundred quid a low-salary family makes won't make up for no longer being able to send their kid to a Sure Start centre, or for reduced standards of policing in their area. It's classic small c conservativism; that the relationship between state and individual is just about cash money. It's easy to feel that way when you can afford to live in nice safe areas and send your kids to the best schools.

[Van Dammer]

A big sovereign nation isn't your local cornershop. Running at a deficit is a part of modern international macroeconomics. The deficit is a handy excuse for the Conservatives to impose their ideology.

 

re: income tax. Kenny's half nailed it with VAT but beyond that, the couple of hundred quid a low-salary family makes won't make up for no longer being able to send their kid to a Sure Start centre, or for reduced standards of policing in their area. It's classic small c conservativism; that the relationship between state and individual is just about cash money. It's easy to feel that way when you can afford to live in nice safe areas and send your kids to the best schools.

 

So how do you pay off debt whilst running at a deficit until the end of time?

[Yoghurt]

You just service it until the end of time as we slowly become more and more worthless.

[David]

I don't know how I missed this little classic from you in another thread Happ;

 

Insurance firms should be able to charge whatever premiums they want, based on whatever criteria they wish. If you don't like how the one you use does it's business, choose another. That's how business is supposed to work, competition and consumer choice. Not the government sticking it's nose in every five minutes (and pocketing millions of pounds of public money for the privilege).

It's easy to say "if you don't like what they charge, move company", but you'll more often than not find that once one company raises it's prices, they all do it.

 

Do you even drive? If you do you must have known this to be the case?

[WildSybianRider]

I didn't say that. The priority is (should be) to encourage a national economic recovery and, when it reaches a cyclical surplus, *then* worry about paying off the deficit. It's not as though someone is sending out bailiffs to repossess the UK. Going on a mad frenzy screaming AHHHH DEFICIT will send the country back into recession.

 

 

EDIT - that's to Van D. Yoghurt stfu your BTEC in business doesn't really apply to global economics.

Edited April 7, 2011 by WildSybianRider

[Kenny McBride]

Until a couple of years ago, Grrmany's debt as a proportion of GDP was bigger than ours. Now they escaped some of the worst effects of the banking collapse, but the fact is that at that time, Labour's wicked overspending haadn'teven made us the most debt-ridden European G7 member. Also, our debt is mostly due to mature on a much longer timescale than the PIGS or many other, bigger economies, so the pressure to repay was not so intese.

[Yoghurt]

I didn't say that. The priority is (should be) to encourage a national economic recovery and, when it reaches a cyclical surplus, *then* worry about paying off the deficit. It's not as though someone is sending out bailiffs to repossess the UK. Going on a mad frenzy screaming AHHHH DEFICIT will send the country back into recession.

 

 

EDIT - that's to Van D. Yoghurt stfu your BTEC in business doesn't really apply to global economics.

 

That's first degree in business management. But lol.

[Van Dammer]

I didn't say that. The priority is (should be) to encourage a national economic recovery and, when it reaches a cyclical surplus, *then* worry about paying off the deficit. It's not as though someone is sending out bailiffs to repossess the UK. Going on a mad frenzy screaming AHHHH DEFICIT will send the country back into recession.

 

 

EDIT - that's to Van D. Yoghurt stfu your BTEC in business doesn't really apply to global economics.

 

Thats fine, if we've ever had an economy built on strong enough foundations to allow us to run without a budget deficit for any prolonged period, we haven't. Im also reluctant to trust other economists predictions on how long a global economic recovery (because thats what is actually required) would take given most of them failed to predict the last downturn.

[Loki]

It's not like we haven't built up national debt and a deficit before, and then paid it off later - we did that after WW2 to a massive degree. Obviously, it would be better to have money in the pot before the economic downturn, but in my lifetime I haven't seen a government that, in times of plenty, doesn't either cut taxes or spend like it's Christmas.

[Kiffy]

In addition to which the massive investment in the banks will pay back a big ol chunk of it, the deficit is artificially high due to the bailout but that was a loan, not a gift, so many people miss this really basic part of the maths.

[Kenny McBride]

Quite. We'reactually already making a profit on the toxic debt insurance, because things really weren't as bad as predicted. Confidence collapsed, not the real ecconomy. And we'll maake a substantial profit when our bargain shares are sokd.

[Loki]

I liked the idea floated that every citizen in the UK gets a share of those profits in the form of a one-off stipend. Probably be a nightmare to sort out, but it'd be a nice gesture.

[Kenny McBride]

I'd prefer to hold on to them and use the as the basis for a Norwegian-style national pension fund. Crisitunity~!

[Happ Hazzard]

What I don't understand is your avatar. Did you not get that programme at all? Or is it intended as a tribute to the system that keeps Bubbles in the gutter selling t-shirts for a couple of dollars?

I did "get" the programme. In the UK, bubbles would have never got clean. He'd have been kept subsidised on various benefits, and never would have hit rock bottom, which in the show was what caused him to get clean and end the last episode running up the stairs to join his sister and nephew for dinner.

 

What incentive is there for addicts to get clean in this country? In many cases they'd be financially penalised for it.

 

I assume anyone who "gets" the Wire knows to treat official crime statistics with the contempt they deserve?

[Bashar]

What I don't understand is your avatar. Did you not get that programme at all? Or is it intended as a tribute to the system that keeps Bubbles in the gutter selling t-shirts for a couple of dollars?

I did "get" the programme. In the UK, bubbles would have never got clean. He'd have been kept subsidised on various benefits, and never would have hit rock bottom, which in the show was what caused him to get clean and end the last episode running up the stairs to join his sister and nephew for dinner.

 

Wow. Just wow. The Wire is a critique of capitalism. But then David Simon could come here and point out that you didn't get it and it would make no difference.