LaGoosh

7 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Gooshy, stop. This way madness lies.

There'll always be a reason why the other fucker is just as bad.

The only route to sanity here is for everyone to lay down their arms.

Yeah fair enough. My post was meant tongue in cheek. If we want to watch something guilt free then wrestling definitely isn't it!

55 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

That’s why I really enjoyed Wrestlemania last night in spite of its flaws. I felt similarly around the early years of AEW, there was a feel-good factor surrounding the promotion which made each show a delight to watch.

Good thing WWE don't have any negativity going on right now that could distract from their product. 

Oh wait, the rapes. I forgot about the rapes.

If it is real I hope it's proper arms flailing embarrassing hand bags at dawn stuff. 

At the very least I hope this is leading to a specific angle. If it's just to make CM Punk look like a cunt...well I knew that already.

I'm so tired.

Can't wrestling just be fun?

27 minutes ago, Weezenal said:

Who is it?

Some Japanese wrestler called Giulia. They cut to her in the crowd at NXT but unfortunately because they didn’t introduce her with a vignette and expected everyone to know who she was the WWE crowd all soiled themselves, burst into tears and left the show in complete hysterics.

52 minutes ago, Loki said:

When they throw out the "old Japanese wrestler of the week" for a 20 minute loss to Moxley randomly on the next Dynamite

I don't think they've done that for ages. Typically these days they do usually show you some footage and explain who the person is beforehand and why it's worth watching. Typically it won't appeal outside of the core audience but it's important to keep that core audience happy, people forget that sometimes. 

5 hours ago, air_raid said:

Regardless, if we’re clutching at “here’s one example of a match where WHAT A GREAT MATCH isn’t the reason to tune in,” I just gave back two.

Not great examples as both matches had a story behind them, told stories within the matches and the finishes of both matches cleverly directly fed into the Danielson vs Ospreay story but I get your point.

Personally I think there absolutely is and should be a place for the "dream match" style of booking in AEW. The sheer depth of their roster and international partnerships means you have basically almost unlimited fresh potential matches but not all those matches require a story going into them, the matches are the story. I love it when a match is announced for Dynamite and my reaction is "holy shit, I never thought that would happen" or "I never even considered that match, looks cool, can't wait to see it!". It's fucking great and the unique offer AEW has that makes them a real alternative. It's not for everyone but if you enjoy wrestling matches and the stories told within them rather than before them then you're absolutely eating good right now.

The problem is when that is your sole selling point. AEW need to incorporate big, exciting storylines leading to big, exciting matches alongside the crazy dream match booking. That's what they did when they were at their best. 

14 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Didn’t they just give away (for examples) Danielson vs Shibata and Ospreay vs Shibata on TV?

Not sure what you mean by "give away"? Shibata isn't a PPV draw in the US in 2024 so putting his matches on TV is the best use of him.

18 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

bringing them up is unavoidable when you want to point out that talk of a new TV deal has gone worryingly silent

No it hasn't. They have only just started negotiations and most news outlets (real ones, not shitty wrestling ones) expect AEW to get a rights increase. Negotiations are happening behind closed doors so we won't hear anything till they are completed. This is the norm.

But hey, anything can happen I suppose.

1 hour ago, Loki said:

Ultimately wrestling is about good guys overcoming bad guys, not two shooters having an evenly matched back and forth contest and then shaking hands.

Or maybe wrestling is about loads of different things and that's what makes it fun? Room for plenty of styles and variety.

Currently watching Shogun which is bloody great historical drama with the right amount of fighting/killing/diabolical plotting. Cosmo Jarvis is brilliant and should be the next James Bond for sure (probably won't though). The cast as a whole are fantastic.

Also watching Scavengers Reign. A sci-fi animated show from HBO about some people who crash land on an alien planet. It's hauntingly beautiful with some of the most creative visual storytelling I've seen in ages. The originality and designs of the wide range of alien species is incredible. Highly recommend, though you'll have to torrent or use a VPN to watch it.

Just now, air_raid said:

And yet, Punk drew a bigger gate on top as a World Champion in MSG ("the barometer") in 2008 than any of his peers (Cena, Orton, Batista) managed during his first run there. 

Interesting. What else was on the card? CM Punk Championship run in 2008 wasn't really taken hugely seriously from what I remember at the time. Was it a case of the fans being more invested in it than the company was or was the rest of the card loaded up?

16 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

here's no excuse why Khan hasn't tried to make her a huge star

Sadly, there's also about 10-15 other people you could say that about. Absolute gold mines just sitting around waiting in this company.

Thinking about it, I'm not really convinced that AEW's booking philosophy is really set up to truly create real stars. Now forgive me but I'm going to do some AEW vs WWE comparison here which I generally hate doing but I think is pretty key and each style has it's pros and cons.

- With WWE, I've always had the sense that their booking philosophy has always been that before Raw/Smackdown they all sit down and their first port of call is bringing up a small handful of their current chose few and saying "ok, so what's Cody Rhodes doing this week?" and then essentially book the shows entirely around whatever they are doing. Once they're content with that they fill in the gaps with the rest of the roster and while there can be good stuff there it usually feels clearly secondary to whatever the chosen few are doing. PROS: when WWE get the machine behind someone it's a highly effective way to really put someone over as a top star and make them a genuine draw, you can do some fantastic week to week storytelling, it gives your shows a clear focus. CONS: if the person WWE choose as one of those chosen few isn't actually very good or the fans don't really buy into them it makes the shows pretty fucking awful to watch, it puts all the pressure on the top guys and if what they're doing is shit or the story is bad it basically ruins the entire broadcast, unless you catch fire with a unique gimmick most your mid-card can be meandering, forgettable and pointless, very rare for any notable matches to really happen or stand out on weekly TV.

- With AEW, there booking philosophy seems to be "how can we have the best show possible this week?" and they look at everything as a whole rather than focusing your efforts on one or two characters or angles to drive things forward. They believe a "great show" is priority one over everything else.  Wrestlers are cycled in and out, you get unique "dream" matches, special guests and it's often very different week to week. PROS: when done right AEW shows are very enjoyable and feel special, generally pretty high quality consistency, some absolutely incredible matches, people rarely get overexposed, very strong midcard. CONS: the roster is very top heavy and without clearly defined "top guys" or hierarchy it can feel like a lot of people are meandering around aimlessly, without getting fully behind 2-3 people at any one point it can feel like there's no star power on the shows, lack of general story line cohesion or momentum throughout shows or week to week, if everyone is a top guy then no one is a top guy and without a top guy it's pretty hard to gain any buzz or excitement around your product.

13 hours ago, David said:

Punk essentially admitted to coming into AEW, doing exactly what he wanted, choking out a fellow talent, throwing his weight around before leaving, walking back into the big company and the "real business", and becoming an even bigger star. 

The "internet fans" simply can't win when it comes to Punk. At every stage they want to see him fail, and he just keeps fucking winning.

- wasn't part of the problem that Punk couldn't do exactly what he wanted and that made him miserable?

- I think you've created a group of people in your mind that don't actually exist. In reality the "internet fans" as you simplistically call them are his main fan base and pretty much love him. The overall positive reaction to his return proves this. Punk only really has the "internet fans" anyway, he's never really been able to seriously appeal to the "casual fan" which is why he never got the proper big sustained WWE main event pushes with the entire machine behind him that Cena, Reigns, Orton or Batista got.

AEW constantly does these really fucking great and naturalistic bits and for the most part only stick them online. Imagine how great the shows would be if they could incorporate them on the live shows? The TV would come across as a real alternative to how WWE produce stuff and the realistic natural feel of them perfectly fits the AEW vibe. Such a great and effective way to add to stories without taking up significant TV time while making the characters feel like real people. So frustrating the easy wins they have just sitting there.

Separately if Tony Khan wants people to think AEW is great and fun then instead of starting his show with Adam Copeland kissing everyone's arse maybe he should get off his fucking lazy arse and book an exciting angle to open the show to get people buzzing and talking.

19 minutes ago, Factotum said:

Doesn't Edge dislike Punk? I remember that Heyman podcast with Jericho and Edge was basically saying 'what's that guys problem' because he called him out about watching a Hockey match or something.

 

I don't think they're friends but I don't think there's any specific heat or grudge or anything. 

My main issue with John Cena's style is that despite being a freakishly strong muscle man is that all his offence is weak as piss. Running bull dogs, second rope leg drops, flipping neck breakers....absolute crap. You're a beast John, do some goddamn power moves. Press Slam someone for the love of God!

The Good

- Ospreay vs Hobbs was absolutely cracking. Kinda weird to have Ospreay beat all the Callis Family BEFORE the inevitable split though but maybe they have something else planned.

- Willow getting a proper live promo segment for the first time and absolutely smashing it. She has more potential than any woman wrestler on the planet. And Mercedes sliding into her natural heel role made her infinitely more watchable. 

- Trent's heel turn was great and the first time in ages I've been genuinely upset by a heel turn (in the way intended). I love Best Friends and want them to stay pals.

- contract signing felt like real main eventer shit and Swerve really proved he belonged there. Loved Joe no selling the chain then headbutting Swerve into the shadow realm. Brilliant, brilliant work all round.

The Bad

- obviously Chris Jericho. Probably the shittest thing on all TV right now. He gets initial boos then complete apathy. Read the room!

- Danielson/Archer was fine but felt like it went on for 6 years. When you already know who's winning just keep it short and sweet lads! 

- barely any backstage segments. They really help break up the shows otherwise it feels like endless matches.

- Jay White/Billy Gunn should have lasted about 4 minutes maximum before breaking down. Truly dreadful. Nothing worthwhile going on here.

- just a genuine lack of excitement throughout the show. Felt like stuff is just being thrown out rather thsn built to properly. 

- AEW roster is absolutely stacked but the shows don't really feel like it. Imagine if they had all the people Copeland listed actually on one show at the same time! It'd be fucking AMAZING and can't miss. They have enough people to stack all 3 weekly shows with top guys but it never feels like they do.

- three singles matches in a row. They really need to pace and format the shows better.

On 4/2/2024 at 5:41 PM, The Gaffer said:

If that's some weird old school view then I must be really out of touch too, because the counterargument that they're a TV company seems like a bit of a free pass to me. Not only is your house a major part of your television presentation, it's also...I don't know. I kinda want my major wrestling organisations to strive to have big houses. Even if the business has changed yadda yadda.

Ofcourse big houses are key to wrestling being fun and crazy and a lively crowd is essential. Likewise ticket sales bring in big money. But the real money is absolutely in media rights. They are the sole reason WWE has been making record breaking profits for years now. If AEW was drawing big crowds but had a bad TV deal the money from live shows would be highly unlikely to put AEW in profit. Creating lots of content that they can get paid for is the key to the companies long term business model. Everything from the past 4 years plus has essentially been leading up to this round of TV rights, it's their only chance to be a self sufficient profitable company. 

Calling AEW a "TV company" isn't giving them a free pass or excusing their mistakes but it does help understand what their priorities are and why they've been shite at certain things.

Slim J is actually a pretty good worker. One of those guys whose been around forever but never got a decent break. If he had a different gimmick you'd have thought he'd be exactly the type of person they would want to feature in the new ROH.

Just now, RedRooster said:

I think he's capable of identifying problems, but is completely incapable of handling them in anything close to a rational way.

I think this is best encapsulated in his own words when he complains in the interview about going to Tony Khan and saying "you need to do something about this because if you don't I will, and you're not going to like it". If he genuinely was a real locker room leader he'd be able to have these conversations with other younger talent where he sets them straight but in a professional and proper manner and they understand and appreciate what they did wrong and what effect it has on themselves and others. 

Punk on the other hand sees something wrong and his way of "fixing" something is to basically yell, scream and/or fight said person or to basically do what they did but ten times worse and more publicly. Then he blames others for the fact that he "had" to respond like that, because in his mind he had no choice and it's not his fault - it's theirs.

17 hours ago, air_raid said:

long after they banned piledrivers you still had Benoit, Edge, Rhino and Kurt fucking their necks up and far more people going on long-term d/l than on the indy circuit where every fucker was finding the most intricate piledriver or brainbuster variant they could imagine - Red literally called one of his "Brain Damage" for Christ's sake, But even within those few years you had Edge get the fusion surgery and be told "that's it for you for a year" then Kurt shortly after getting different surgery, not needing his vertebrae fused and being back in the ring within a couple of months, to then carry on wrestling fairly regularly for more than ten years.

I don't think banning piledrivers made any difference at all. A piledriver is a dangerous move if it's fucked up but if done properly and safely then I imagine it's fairly low impact for the person receiving it. 

I think the main thing around this time, especially with the Smackdown crew, is that they were having a lot of heavy hitting matches each week which were filled to the brim with suplexes, particularly German Suplexes. I think the sheer amount of German suplexes all these guys were taking all week long is probably the main cause of everyone being drugged up maniacs with dust for spines during this period.

EDIT: nevermind.

9 hours ago, sukhy said:

I can't really give Punk the benefit of the doubt here, when he was going on live TV and calling out Hangman when he knew he wasn't in the building.

During the Gripe Bomb at All Out, while the Bucks and Kenny were in the building Hangman wasn't. FTR had actually taken him out drinking, which leads to two possibilities:

1) It was sheer coincidence that Hangman was taken out drinking with CM Punk's best buddies when Punk started publicly slagging him off.

2) the much funnier possibility that Punk asked FTR to take Hangman out drinking to ensure that he wouldn't be in the building when he was slagging him off.

1 hour ago, Loki said:

If young wrestlers were signing up with Uncle Tony thinking it was a job for life that’s naive in the extreme.

Also when they haven't been regularly booked for months or ever received a decent sustained push wouldn't you just assume you're about to be sacked at any minute?