Fog Dude

28 minutes ago, David said:

Ah, see, I'm not a fan of separatism at all. 

The problems start when, as in many situations in life, elderly white men in suits see a way that they can grab more power.

Also, just because I'm in favour of the decentralisation of power doesn't mean I'm looking for it to be implemented to ridiculous levels all the way down to county level. It obviously has to work, and we know that the governing of nations in and of themselves is a concept that works. it worked long before the EU and the bureaucrats arrived on the scene, and it'll work long after the EU finally falls.

My view is that where possible any matter should be decentralised to the benefit of the people.

I agree that Scotland certainly does seem to have it better, and has a system that could be looked at UK-wide.

Doesn't the WTO account for something like 95% of all global trade? Between over 150 member nations? 

Yes, and these are the rights we should be afforded under our democratically elected government, no? Unless we're just all stupid enough to vote in a party who have plans to remove free press, an independent judiciary, and the ability to protest?

Besides, what exactly did the EU do when Spain sent the army in to batter old folk and women who wanted to vote for independence in Catalonia? Didn't really see much protection offered there to be honest.

Thanks for the response.

A lot of elderly white men in suits seem pretty damn ecstatic at the opportunities afforded to them at present by the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. A lot of more casually dressed elderly white men also appear pleased by it and strangely still angry at the same time. They are less likely to profit from the fallout of all this.

There have always been "bureaucrats on the scene". Much of the extra paperwork people complain about is a domestic decision. The state can't function at any layer without a civil service. The EU is not going to fall. There has to be a political expression of the continent of Europe on the world stage and it's the best chance we've got. We're not about to establish another from the ground up. 

It's written into EU law that "where possible any matter should be decentralised" although admittedly they sometimes have trouble putting that into practice.

At least we agree on something. I'd love Holyrood's electoral system for one of the chambers at Westminster, and the preferential vote for local councils in England and Wales. Here in Somerset the 3 European elections at which I've voted have been my only experience of PR.

The point about the WTO has already been answered better than I could have. We have a much greater democratic deficit with the WTO (and NATO and the Commonwealth and the UN and every other international organisation we belong to) than we have ever had with the EU. 

Those rights are better protected under European law (both EU and the Council of Europe's ECHR, although most people miss that distinction) than they ever have been under British domestic law. I think the Conservatives would quite like to curb all those freedoms if they thought they would get away with it. Holding a plurality of the seats in the lower house elected by the first-past-the-post system hardly constitutes a 'democratically elected government' anyhow. 

So you're against separatism but back the secessionist nonsense in Catalonia? Obviously the police brutality was wrong, but the whole independence project there is insane. You realise Brexit is an act of separatism, right? The purpose of an EU army (which doesn't exist yet, so it could hardly have stepped in 14 months ago) but be to protect us from external threats, to help out when invited in times of natural disaster and to support peacekeeping missions outside Europe, not to sort out the internal divisions of a member state.

6 hours ago, David said:

Because, as I've stated already, none of that really matters to me. I want a more decentralised system where the people who are charged with making the decisions that affect a country are the very people who have been elected to do so.

This in and of itself isn't a terrible position. I'm in favour of decentralisation too. In theory so is the EU (they call it 'subsidiarity'). I always draw the line at outright separatism, whereas you clearly don't. I'd love my town to have its own health policy, my district to make its own social security rules and my county to have full control over education, but there are economies of scale and need for universal standards that mean all those things are decided at higher levels of government instead. 

Given that, I'd actually welcome an EU army. I think matters of 'big politics' like defence, border control and policing are exactly what the EU should've been doing since Maastricht, but rather than doing that it's been stuck regulating mundane stuff like car seats, patio heaters and jugs of olive oil at restaurants, which are the sort of things national governments and local councils ought to be deciding. Member states and the EU need a massive power swap. I don't believe the direction of travel should always be to embolden Brussels and Strasbourg. We were the biggest country to argue that the solution to every problem shouldn't always be 'more Europe', and now we can no longer make that case.

If anyone voted Leave for more democracy, they aren't going to get it. South of the border we now vote for 'police commissioners' for some reason, but we still don't elect the upper house of parliament, the head of state, the Supreme Court or the civil service, and the electoral system for the Commons and our councils is atrocious (the EU Parliament has to be chosen by a form of PR, according to treaties). In Scotland you have it slightly better with semi-proportional voting systems for Holyrood and local authorities, and no PCCs. 

If there's no deal we'll revert to WTO rules. The hardliners say that's all right. It'll crash the economy and the only people who won't suffer will be the Tory toffs and their vulture capitalist mates. When did anyone last get to vote for the WTO though? How is that democratic? Democracy is about the protection of rights, a free press, an independent judiciary and the ability to protest, not just a vote on one day in June 2016, but few members of the voting public seem to understand this. The only remit the WTO has is to promote free trade, whilst the EU has always tried to balance that goal with an attempt to uphold its citizens' rights. 

Realistically the best case scenario is probably that May's deal goes through and we don't harm our own country economically as badly as we might've done. That isn't looking likely at the moment though. If it does happen, we'll still be bound by most EU rules almost indefinitely, but with no Commissioner, no seat at the Council of Ministers and zero rather than 73 MEPs, so we'll have next to no chance to influence how those rules are made. Some 'victory' for Britain that is. 

On 11/21/2018 at 12:19 AM, Shy Dad said:

All about the cup run,

Especially as my D2D choices will inevitably ruin my chances at the double anyway.

 

You're not wrong on either count there. After this week we'll be getting some more Cup matchdays done in the run-up to Christmas so you can concentrate on that, but that means you're the only player whose first D2D turn will have to wait until the New Year. 

Don't worry about the choices being obscure though. So far this season we've already accommodated Conference North & South, the Austrian league (twice!) and the Romanian league, and we've still got some other unusual countries and divisions to come yet.

Premier League

Bournemouth 2-2 Arsenal 
Spurs 1-1 Chelsea 
Watford 2-3 Liverpool
West Ham United 0-3 Manchester City

Championship

Aston Villa 0-0 Birmingham City 
Brentford 2-1 Middlesbrough w/Glenryck

Scottish Cup Round 3
Beith Juniors 0-2 Ayr United 
Edinburgh City 1-2 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 
Stenhousemuir 1-3 Falkirk
Ligue 1
Paris Saint Germain 3-0 Toulouse 

On 11/16/2018 at 11:26 PM, Briefcase said:

Urgh Friday fixtures are not cool as missed a couple of results. 

I agree, but we can't do much about international breaks being spread across 6 days now, apart from ignoring Thursday/early Friday matches and posting the fixtures a day early. Which is what I did. You weren't alone in picking late and you're still top of the table so you can't have too many complaints. Besides, Stinky Dad missed the same 2 games and still managed to be top scorer! Nobody else was into double figures, and fellow late picker ultimo was joint worst performer alongside the hapless duo at the bottom of the standings. The same pair are struggling in FPL Cup Group A, with newcomers propping up Group B. Shy Dad and TildeGuy have taken control of their respective pools with 3 wins from 3. 

Why only an average of 7.38 points then, since that's pretty low for an international round? Well, first of all people were generally pessimistic about Scotland's chances and overly optimistic for Wales and Northern Ireland, but progress for England did prove fruitful. Away from the Home Nations, a narrow Czech triumph in the Velvet Derby turned out a bit tougher to foresee, whilst a stalemate in Italy was generally good for one-pointers. 

Over in Africa, a score draw in Johannesburg ended up yielded a lot of exact scoreline guesses, and a victory for Algeria was also useful for a majority of participants. Another draw in Guinea and a home success for Morocco saw rare setbacks for West African giants the Ivory Coast and Cameroon, which were understandably harder to bet on beforehand.

The next set of 10 will be in the opening post very soon.

4 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

It's not about whether they deserve it. I don't begrudge anyone anything. But it seems wrong to me to give money to people who don't need it when others are under the breadline.

Changing a benefit from universal to means-tested incurs extra administration costs, so it can end up not actually saving the country money overall. 

People who receive winter fuel allowance and don't actually need it should arrange for it to be given to a good cause of their choice, but you can't really force them to do so.

Since we're on the subject, I had a dentist's appointment this morning and it turns out I need another wisdom tooth taken out. That's been arranged for next month and holds no fear after my last extraction 6 and a bit years ago went smoothly.

Feels like I haven't had toothache for ages, mind. Best of luck, @Carbomb. I'd echo Onyx's Bonjela advice, but if the pain is as bad as you make it sound then you probably need more of whatever stronger stuff you've been taking.

1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said:

No,  I think it would still be a close run thing but now you'd have a lot of people who were too young to vote last time that could this time, and I'd say an 80/20 would be how that demographic would vote.

It would be nice if they let Brits abroad and citizens of other EU countries resident in the UK vote next time too. A lot of people who were able to vote in June 2016 have passed away since then as well.

If the Article 50 negotiation period is extended (as Gus suggested) by at least 2 months, then we'd get a symbolic vote in the next European Parliament elections... which could be used as a proxy third* referendum – albeit on potentially a much lower turnout.

*The first was in 1975 but everyone forgets that.

UEFA Nations League

Albania 2-1 Scotland
Czechia 3-1 Slovakia 
England 2-0 Croatia 
Italy 1-1 Portugal 
Northern Ireland 3-2 Austria 
Wales 1-0 Denmark 

Africa Cup of Nations qualifiers
Guinea 1-3 Côte d'Ivoire 
Morocco 2-2 Cameroon 
South Africa 0-0 Nigeria 
Togo 0-2 Algeria 

The results went into the opening post on Sunday night, and the updated table was worked out soon after that. What a difference a week makes for Grecian! From a no-show to joint lowest scorer to betting against his own team... and it worked. Although Exeter City played well for most of the match, unfortunately they'd already given Blackpool a three-goal headstart. That meant bonus points from 5 other participants, enough to make him the best performer for the round and lift him up to 11th place, 6 points clear of Rory and myself in bottom spot.

Without those bonuses, MVP RULZ would've been top scorer on 14, with fellow challenger TildeGuy joined by Shy Dad also in double figures. Briefcase's haul of 9 is in line with the weekly average of 9.23, and he still leads by 4 points. Glenryck and The Maestro were less impressive this time out.

Elsewhere, goalfests in Spain had the expected winners but were not so good for exact scorelines. A narrow victory for Spurs and a somewhat more comfortable one for Man City proved fruitful, as did a triumph for Maidstone on what looked like AstroTurf that barely counts as a shock. Progress for Peterborough Utd and success for Newport County were largely guessed right beforehand too. The former were aided by a dubious sending-off just before half time, whilst the latter might've sung 'FF-FFWC YR HEDDLU!' had the N.W.A. hailed from Caerleon rather than Compton. [Sorrynotsorry for that.] Bradford City being held on a horrendous pitch was correctly foreseen by most, but Cheltenham being taken to a replay as well turned out not to be such a useful outcome.

This is being put up a day early because it's another bloody international round coming up again – but at least it's the last one until late March. 

Premier League

Crystal Palace 1-2 Tottenham Hotspur 
Manchester City 5-0 Manchester United 

FA Cup First Round

Aldershot Town 0-0 Bradford City
Bromley 0-3 Peterborough United
Ebbsfleet United 0-2 Cheltenham Town
Exeter City w/Grecian 2-2 Blackpool 
Maidstone United 0-1 Macclesfield Town
Metropolitan Police 1-3 Newport County

La Liga

Atlético Madrid 3-1 Athletic Bilbao 
Celta Vigo 1-1 Real Madrid

6 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

Another thing was that when you take the offices of President, Vice-President, and Secretary of State, the last time someone not called Bush or Clinton held one of those was 1980.  We have a monarchy but American political families are the equivalent.

From November 2012 to January 2017 those offices were held by Obama, Biden and Kerry respectively... but the point still basically stands. Those two families dominate US politics far too much (and wield way more actual power than the Windsors do here). 

The results went into the opening post on Sunday night, and I reluctantly figured out the table soon after that because I got my D2D bet wrong and wasn't really overkeen on finding out just how badly I'd done. A stalemate at the Wörtherseestadion meant that 9 other participants (including all of the top 5) were able to take advantage. As is traditional, I was also the lowest scorer, but a returning Grecian was kind enough to join me on 6 in a week when the average was up to 8.93 points. He's now adrift at the foot of the standings, with Rory awkwardly sandwiched between us after taking second highest scorer honours for the round. Briefcase was the best performer and extends his lead to 9 points, but his two nearest challengers kept the pace well on 11 points apiece this time.

Away from Austria, a score draw in Florence and a late winner for AC Milan in Udine proved fruitful, as did wins for Chelsea, Everton, West Ham and Spurs. Another draw at The Emirates was generally good for at least a point for most, whilst the contrasting fortunes of struggling Newcastle and Cardiff by a single goal in their matches caught a few people out.

Premier League
Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool 
Cardiff City 3-0 Leicester City
Chelsea 3-1 Crystal Palace 
Everton 2-2 Brighton & Hove Albion
Newcastle United 0-1 Watford
West Ham United 0-0 Burnley
Wolves 1-0 Tottenham Hotspur 

Serie A
Fiorentina 1-2 Roma 
Udinese 2-0 AC Milan 

Austrian Zweite Liga
Austria Klagenfurt w/me 2-1 SV Ried

On 10/27/2018 at 3:58 PM, AdamTH17 said:

Completely forgot to submit mine. I’ll whack Sunday’s games up and take the hit .

You were lucky that there were 6 Sunday matches this time! The next 3 'normal' rounds only feature 2 Sunday games (international week is spread across 4 days again), so you might want to be more careful with punctuality over the next month. For some reason @Grecian didn't play at all this time, which means you're in the clear somewhat there too. He's now last in the table, unsurprisingly, and it's meant to be his D2D turn soon.

Anyhow, the results have been in the opening post since Sunday night. The next set of fixtures and an updated link to the standings will follow shortly. Stinky Dad, having selected Dulwich as his first-choice team, showed no faith whatsoever in their ability to get anything at Billericay... but he was wrong. Only 4 out of 11 other non-tardy participants took advantage though. At least he did end up deservedly as the worst performer this week. The average haul of 7.07 points was on the low side. MVP RULZ has cut Briefcase's lead by 2 points, from 9 down to 7, whilst The Maestro and ultimo share top scorer honours and both consolidate their places in the top half.

Away from the sixth tier, a victory on the road for Chelsea proved the most fruitful outcome of all, with home wins in Catalonia, Massachussets and BC also generally good for one-pointers at worst. A triumph for PSG at the Stade Vélodrome turned out pretty well for most, but a stalemate at St Mary's and score draw at Selhurst Park were more difficult to foresee. Equally tough to guess beforehand were another setback for Wolves, and a big home reverse for Fulham. Perhaps people need to start putting less faith in the promoted sides... 

Premier League

Brighton & Hove Albion 2-2 Wolves
Burnley 0-3 Chelsea 
Crystal Palace 0-2 Arsenal 

Fulham 1-1 Bournemouth
Southampton 0-0 Newcastle United
National League South
Billericay Town 1-2 Dulwich Hamlet w/Stinky Dad

La Liga
Barcelona 2-1 Real Madrid 

Ligue 1
Marseille 0-1 Paris Saint Germain 

MLS
New England Revolution 3-1 Montreal Impact 
Vancouver Whitecaps 2-0 Portland Timbers

The results went into the opening post on Sunday night. The average score was just 5.64 points this time out, so there hasn't been much movement in the table. Failed Promoter got his D2D bet right as Gateshead cruised to victory against their modest neighbours in front of the BBC cameras. Only 4 out of the other 13 participants disagreeing may be a little on the low side, but those extra 8 points were enough to springboard the newcomer into mid-table. 

As noted above, Shy Dad was the next highest scorer on 11 points, the only one with more than one exact scoreline right and the sole player into double figures without bonuses. One of four joint worst performers, Rory, sinks to last place in the standings, whilst another, MVP RULZ, allows Briefcase to extend his lead at the top to 9. 

Away from the south bank of the River Tyne, a stalemate in Harrogate proved difficult to guess beforehand, as did the two Cup ties north of the border. Thierry Henry's début as a manager also caught people out as it failed to go to plan, whilst another goalless draw on the English south coast turned out to be tough to foresee. Elsewhere, a score draw at Stamford Bridge ended up a lot more fruitful for most, alongside single-goal wins on the road for Liverpool, Spurs and Marseille, with two of those victories coming in derbies (of sorts). 

A new set of 10 games will be up in the original post soon enough. 

I've genuinely only just realised that Germany actually lost 3-0 instead of just 1-0 in Holland, as it says in the first post. I was going by the last score update I'd seen on the other screen while watching Ireland-Denmark last Saturday night and hadn't noticed the two additional late goals at all. I'm not going to correct it since I don't think it makes any difference to last week's scores? 

Premier League

Bournemouth 2-0 Southampton
Chelsea 1-0 Manchester United 
Huddersfield Town 0-2 Liverpool 
West Ham United 1-2 Tottenham Hotspur

FA Cup last qualifying round
Dunston UTS 2-2 Gateshead w/FailedPromoter
Harrogate Town 2-1 Wrexham

Scottish Cup Round 2
Cowdenbeath 0-0 Clyde
Stirling Albion 1-1 Queen's Park

Ligue 1
Nice 3-0 Marseille 
Strasbourg 3-1 Monaco 

Most of the results went into the opening post on Monday night. As some people spotted, the two African ones had to be delayed until today. A week ago multiple sources gave the start time's I'd put down, but such are the pitfalls of international football in developing countries. We don't normally allow midweek matches, but I'll class those as having been postponed from the weekend and allow them to stand. The table has also been updated in that same first post. It was much lower-scoring that international rounds often used to be, with an average of just 6.2 points per player.

There was just a little bit of movement in mid-table and remarkably, none of the FPL Cup matches ended in a draw. Group B already looks stronger (but untidier) than Group A, with Shy Dad and ultimo taking command of the latter and the usual suspects of MVP RULZ and TildeGuy in charge of the former. Back in the main classification, Briefcase's lead is cut by one point to four, FailedPromoter is still in last place by a single point, and Glenryck Pilchards was the biggest mover (and only participant into double figures) despite not foreseeing that Henrikh Mkhitaryan and his compatriots would fail to score in 90 minutes against the boys from The Rock. 

Away from Yerevan, the outcomes in Amsterdam, Seville, Mitsamiouli* and Bayamón* seemed to catch everyone out, with most people stumped by the exact score at the Ergilio Hato Stadium** and the stalemate in Dublin, though they were occasionally good for one-pointers. Home victories for Bosnia, Luxembourg and Liberia proved far more fruitful for most.

I've put next week's fixtures into the original post already, since I was editing it after 11 o'clock on a Tuesday and thought I might as well. 

*Yeah, even I had to look these ones up.

**That too.

1 hour ago, Glenryck Pilchards said:

Liberia 2-1 Congo (Sunday 5pm)

I hate to go all @Fog Dude on you Fog Dude but is it the Democratic Republic of Congo or the Republic of Congo?

Fair question. It's the latter, Congo  Brazzaville. Some of us still think of the other one as Zaïre!

Such enthusiasm for the international break, as usual.

UEFA Nations League

Armenia 3-0 Gibraltar 
Bosnia-Herzegovina 1-1 Northern Ireland 
Ireland 2-2 Denmark 
Luxembourg 4-0 San Marino 
Netherlands 1-2 Germany 
Spain 2-1 England 

Africa Cup of Nations 2019 qualifying (Groups B & F)
Comoros 0-2 Morocco 
Liberia 1-0 Congo

CONCACAF Nations League
Bonaire 0-3 Jamaica 
Puerto Rico 0-0 Martinique

The results went into the opening post on Sunday night, including the one from Ashton Gate that I would rather have declared void. That one allowed MVP RULZ to break the hundred-point mark and catapult himself up to second in the table. Without his bonus points, the only participant into double figures would've been FailedPromoter, who remains in last place but cut the gap to Grecian to a single point. There wasn't much other movement of significance because the average score this time out was only 7.14 points (and below 6 when the D2D isn't included, which must be close to a record low). Briefcase still leads, but only by five.

Away from the south Bristol disaster zone, a lot of other outcomes didn't bring most players any joy. Dropped points for both Real Madrid and The Little Boat caught a majority of people out, whilst a stalemate at Anfield and a home reverse for Leicester also proved difficult to foresee. A triumph on the road for Stoke was tough to guess beforehand too, but successes for for Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea were at least generally good for one-pointers. A narrow defeat for Porto at the Estádio da Luz rounded things off with a fruitful scoreline as well.

Next week it's another international round, which means no D2D but another load of FPL Cup group games... plus it gets stretched out until next Monday. That'll all be up in the first post very soon.

Premier League

Fulham 1-3 Arsenal 
Leicester City 2-1 Everton
Liverpool 0-1 Manchester City 
Manchester United 1-1 Newcastle United
Southampton 0-2 Chelsea 

Championship
Bristol City 3-0 Sheffield Wednesday w/MVP RULZ
Norwich City 2-2 Stoke City

La Liga

Alavés 1-2 Real Madrid
Valencia 1-1 Barcelona

Primeira Liga
Benfica 1-0 Porto

The results went into the original post unsually early, on Saturday night this time. AdamTH17 got his D2D bet right, which is something that's been happening a lot lately and is also unusual. Newcomers like him might not realise how rare this winning streak is! Anyway, after Stockport managed to do him a favour in Durham, he got 20 bonus points from the 10 other participants who disagreed with him. That was enough to propel him up to joint second in the table. Without those bonuses, mid-table MVP RULZ would've been the top scorer, but Briefcase wasn't far behind and extends his lead by a point. Another newbie in the shape of FailedPromoter remains in last place.

The average haul of 10.86 points per player was astonishingly high in this round. Only the early scoreline at the (London) Olympic Stadium really caught people out. Two home wins in Italy as well as similar successes for Arsenal, Everton and Wolves all proved fruitful, whilst victories on the road for Spurs and Leicester and a score draw at Stamford Bridge were each generally good for at least one-pointers. 

Right, a new set of 10 for next week will be in the opening post in just a tick... 

Premier League

Arsenal 3-1 Watford
Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool 
Everton 1-2 Fulham
Huddersfield Town 0-0 MK Spurs
Newcastle United 1-1 Leicester City
West Ham United 0-1 Manchester United 
Wolverhampton Wanderers 2-1 Southampton

National League North
Darlington 2-0 Stockport County w/AdamTH17

Serie A
Juventus 1-0 Napoli 
Roma 3-2 Lazio