boytoy

11 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Cena's arc has been long term. John Cena reached the natural end of his "regular World Champion and perennial main eventer" shelf age as 2013 entered into 2014 and we entered the Lesnar, Bryan, Shield corridor. He only won the belt once more in 2014 because Danny Bry was hurt and into 2015 he was being used to further Rusev and spent a whole year elevating midcarders. His final WWE title run as it stands was purely transitional for the sake of a huge marquee title match at the Rumble and to move the belt onto Wyatt. He's been short term runs and a special attraction ever since and his descent from "top dog" to "big name but approaching the end" hence nowhere near as unbeatable as before has been gradual and logical in a way the company haven't simply pulled the plug on him or had to lose him while he was on top like they did Hogan, Austin or The Rock. We should not be wetting the bed about any loss John Cena suffers in 2019. The company moved on, so should we.

Honestly, I'd love to see Cena in an angle like Sami can't win the big one from NXT but with Cena being unable to capture his former success. Have him get close but fail and tease him taking shortcuts before getting his final title win against (new) Daniel Bryan at Summerslam in a retirement vs title match. Sadly, I doubt he would be able to be around enough to really make it work though. 

AEW's strength is on expanding the style of Being The Elite which approaches kayfabe in a slightly different way. I could see a ranking system work within the take on kayfabe they have adopted.

In a scenario where two wrestlers are feuding and the heel wrestler is ranked higher than babyface wrestler. Heel can duck out of fighting as the babyface's wrestler isn't ranked high enough. Good guy has a reason to fight other wrestlers to improve his ranking to finally challenge his foe. I think you could do some fairly interesting stuff with that and it does help build to the big match which seems to be the way they are interested in booking wrestling.

7 minutes ago, Loki said:

 What's he got to look forward to? 

I think I could find plenty to look forward to with $31 million.

6 minutes ago, Loki said:

Outside of Brawn Strowman, how many homegrown stars has NXT actually produced since, well, the Shield?  The mid card is awash with NXT alumni but if we're honest a lot of them haven't lived up to expectations for whatever reason.

Charlotte Flair, Alexa Bliss, Becky Lynch. Not many male talents but around that time was when WWE were bringing loads of indie guys to establish NXT.

28 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

2) What if Paul Heyman had taken the book with TNA before Hogan and Bischoff came along? They still had good TV and a stacked roster at the time. And they hadn't filled it full of Hogan's mates ala WCW '94. Could Heyman have rekindled some of the magic from mid-90s ECW or early 2000s Smackdown? I'm not sure but I think he would have booked a decent product involving a reasonable crew of wrestlers that could have taken TNA to the next level. Not WWE level but certainly a step forward rather than the shooting themselves in the foot they did under Hogan, Bischoff and Russo.

An interesting scenario but I can't imagine TNA ever finding enough stability for this to happen, especially with Dixie there.

I reckon Paul E goes in and books around the talent that weren't around in the 80's and 90's. TNA invests in loads of independent wrestlers before they ever get on WWE's radar. Product is good and business slowly picks up as the develop the roster. They have a potentially great roster but they lack polish and are a few years away from reaching their potential.

Dixie still gets starstruck by Hogan/Bischoff/Russo/Nash etc and brings one or all of them in over Heyman as she is convinced that they need 'big names'. They clear out Punk, Danielson, Steen, Black, Moxley, Castagnoli etc and bring back the ex-WWE/WCW wrestlers. WWE gets even more deterred from signing independent wrestlers and we never get CM Punk, Daniel Bryan or The Shield. NXT never becomes a big deal. ROH gets hurt by the talent raid and doesn't find its way back to its feet. WWE developmental brings through another 200 Ken Kennedy's. 

9 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Perfectly put. Im actually gonna go back and re-watch the Klitschko fight to get a re-freshed view of it. I only ever saw the fight once. I think that fight is a little bit of a red herring when talking about the heavyweight title picture.

The action was not exciting but it was totally unexpected and Wlad had been so dominant. It is up there with the best and performances on the road by a British boxer which is why Fury became such a big deal overnight and perception of him changed so much (perhaps too much). Then with Klitschko showing he was still able to trouble someone like AJ it kind of made it look even better in retrospect.

1 minute ago, PunkStep said:

I've seen so many fans that claim to be boxing 'experts' (not on here mind, but the glorious world of social media) talk about how Fury is untouchable and head & shoulders above the rest of the heavyweight division, also claiming AJ is a fraud and Fury would outbox him with ease and win on points.

Wouldn't be the first time that people have gone over the top on social media! Once a narrative sticks people don't seem to let go. If Fury does this to Wilder then there is an argument to be made but not until then. Wlad was an entirely different proposition and three years ago at that.

Describing AJ as a fraud is ridiculous and he has defended brilliantly so far but the fight against Wlad still gives me more doubts than he deserves.

20 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Quite surprised at the positive reaction here to Fury's performance last night. I thought he looked slow, laboured and lacking in anything resembling spite. He had a walking punch bag in front of him and i thought Tyson made hard work of it, all without putting a dent in a guy whos been stopped several times.

You are bang on about his fights usually being slow, plodding affairs though but he has the character that makes everyone overlook that. After the debacle of Seferi getting pulled out the lack of spite might have been deliberate. Fury needed rounds and this was always going to go the distance unless he got into trouble. It was more like a public spar than a boxing match.

It would be a phenomenal achievement for him to beat Wlad in Germany and then go to the states and win the WBC belt. I'd be pretty confident of 2015 Fury doing it but not sure about now. His game plan surely has to be to beat Wilder on points so makes sense to get 30 minutes under his belt first. In boxing, these kind of comebacks rarely end well though.

Not sure about Ambrose's new look yet but what on earth is going on with Ziggler? He has nearly always looked terrible but what on earth is he supposed to be now?

49 minutes ago, unfitfinlay said:

The sad thing is Reigns absolutely should be a top babyface. The guy is a fucking star and they are wasting him.

Reigns must be like a wrestling Rorschach test. Loads of people see this but just as many don't. Other than his shitty fist cocking thing there is nothing about him that screams babyface to me. Maybe it is because his act is stale even by WWE standards (here's Roman who used to be in the shield, hurrah!) but he just seems so lame. Maybe I am too old the days of having a universally liked top babyface are just long gone? My kids are just starting to watch a bit of wrestling so it will be interesting to see if they think differently (Finn, Braun, Bayley and Big E are their favourites). 

13 hours ago, Supremo said:

Do people think Finn Balor’s WWE career would’ve been much different if he hadn’t gotten injured after winning the Universal Title? I know he has his weaknesses on the microphone, but he still feels like a wasted opportunity seeing how over he is despite how badly he's been handled. Makes me wonder how things might have been.

I am a big Finn Balor fan but I will try and be objective. I don't think it would have been that much different. At the moment he is in the jobber to the stars bracket were he wins fairly often but rarely against the top guys and I think he would have reverted to that after a short title run anyway. I think he has been one of the bigger casaulties of Brock having the belt because he doesn't come across as a believable challenger to Brock in any way.

I was desperate for him to move to Smackdown as I think he could be a main event player there. I have no idea why he hasn't won the IC title as he seems like a perfect fit for it. I think he is definately the kind of wrestler that needs a belt - he was really good in his run as NXT champion. Also, I know the Demon makes little sense but I do miss it.

Pro's - Somehow stays fairly over, Sells merch, Kids like him, Consistent in ring performer, Decent Look

Cons - Terrible promo, No significant main roster feuds, Size, Injuries

Could the ever increasing runtime be a reason for the crowds being so bad? I don't attend shows live but I haven't watched a WWE show at home without skipping at least part of it in about 15 years. The idea of watching a B level card for the full 3 hr 40 run time at home with distractions fills me with dread, you couldn't pay me to actually be in the arena and watch it. Hogan/Rock could have headlined and I would struggle to get into it.

11 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

So why watch it then?  That’s not just at you, we hear about cycles in wrestling but one thing that is the now as it was years ago is “This is terrible, here is where Vince is going wrong”. 

I know it isn’t like any other show but if I think something is shit or doesn’t entertain me, I stop watching. 

You're right that Raw is slightly different to most shows. Raw is the only TV show I can think of that I actively want to be good which is quite unique. I'm currently in a period of not watching it but I always look forward to the times when it pulls me back in and there isn't another TV show that I don't watch that I would read a recap of to stay up to date...

Constable is such a peculiar word for the Americans to use it has to be some kind of rib.

21 hours ago, Yakashi said:

If you read Bryan’s book, business absolutely tanked with him on top. 

Not going to read the book but interested in what he refers to here. It's a bit odd given that Bryan only won the title at WM30 and then made one or two defenses against Kane before getting injured making his period as the top guy a few months? Even if you take Bryan's run from the start of that year before the Rumble business couldn't have tanked as it was WM season. Is this in reference to one of his earlier title runs? It would be a stretch to argue that he was on top during this period, certainly nothing compared to the momentum he would have a few years later.

I much prefer the shorter show and booking style of NXT. The stories are told within the matches and feuds are moved on by what happens in the ring. This is a big difference from the main roster were the matches just happen and the feud is moved on by other means. I could follow a Raw/Smackdown feud by not watching any of the matches for the most part. All of the matches on this card told a story in the ring which is a big part of why Takeover is so unmissable. There are lots of decent matches on the main show cards but very few of them seem to matter in the same way that Takeover matches do.

Never mind Stephanie, that Zayn/Lashley segment was one of the worst segments I have ever seen.

48 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

How plausible that would be with touring schedules, I don't know, though.

It is at least more plausible than having the champion hardly appearing anywhere.

12 minutes ago, PunkStep said:

Ugh, I hate Cole's "OHHHH MYYYY" soundbyte. It's probably my third least favourite from the WWE announcers, after the stupid "HE/SHE'S HERE!" and when they sing "HE/SHE'S BAAAAACCCKKK".

All terrible but every time someone says big dog on commentary a part of faith in humanity dies.

Hardy, Miz, Elias, Balor would be a great haul for Smackdown to complement what they have, Rollins would be even better.

NXT can tell better stories than Raw is that there is a constant changing of the guard so the comparison is unfair. Once a wrestler is on the main roster they are there until they are injured/retire/do something really dumb and there is only a certain amount of patience can have before an act gets stale.

Randy Orton won his first title in 2004, Cena in 2006 and Lesnar in 2002 which would be like Hogan, Savage and Warrior being the main draw on a 2000 WWF show. WCW tried that and went under. At Summerslam 14 when Lesnar killed Cena, Roman Reigns wrestled Randy Orton that night. Perhaps it would have been a lot better if it had have been Reigns who had have dominated Cena that night, on the back of the Shield run and before they exposed his weaknesses too much. There never was an obvious younger replacement for Cena which is why they decided to play it safe and succeed him with Lesnar as the top guy. The only problem is that it hasn't worked.

Jordan does look a bit like Kurt too. I am interested...at least theu are paying attention to the midcard more now.

The attack afterwards isn't really out of keeping with Reigns' character, he has pretty much been a full blown heel for at least 6 months.

7 minutes ago, Ambulance Chaser said:

Yeah to be honest I don't think you can overstate how much was lost with Seth having the curb stomp taken away, whether it was right or wrong to stop him using it, I thought it looked fucking brilliant, there was also a lot of creative room to get into it and vice versa to counter it. The whole Pedigree thing has always irked me, since day 1. Then the buggers didn't even play it into the story of him vs Hunter!!! Did they even mention it once.

Totally agree, the curb stomp was over like mad and there was loads of cool stuff you could do with it. I remember Paul Heyman going on about how you could get any move over as a finisher if it was sold as such by everyone involved and it put enough people away. It was not a devastating move to look at it but they had invested so much into it with him hurting Ambrose and threatening to break Edge's neck that it was a shame to see all that undone as it was a legitimate finish.

I can't stop watching than Strowman beatdown. What a player. Reigns busted his ass to make Strowman look an absolute beast.

Best bits:

'I'm not done with you yet'

Fans chanting 'You Deserve It' when Reigns was getting attended to by the EMT's

Braun's pop when he gets in the ambulance

The elevation on Reigns when he gets launched 10ft across the room through a table