Chris Benoit dead

[TheBigBoot]

It's easier to explain for a Triple Threat match like that. For example I'm sure they could say that the European/Intercontinental title match at WM 2000 was Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho.But how are they going to explain things like WrestleMania X-7, No Mercy '02 and Royal Rumble '03 unless Kurt Angle wrestled himself.

[Guest Josh Jenkins]

It's easier to explain for a Triple Threat match like that. For example I'm sure they could say that the European/Intercontinental title match at WM 2000 was Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho.But how are they going to explain things like WrestleMania X-7, No Mercy '02 and Royal Rumble '03 unless Kurt Angle wrestled himself.

Yeah very true. It's just the fact that Benoit won both the Wrestlemania 2000 and XX match's. In WWE's current records, did Triple H or Shawn Michaels win? If Triple H won, did Randy Orton beat him for the title at Summerslam? If Shawn Michaels won, is he now a 5-time World Champion? It doesn't make any sense.

[Bix]

They do mention Benoit in title histories on WWE.com, but that's it.

[Supremo]

According to Wikipedia, on the Wrestlemania Anthology match listing for Wrestlemania XX, the main event is listed as Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that WWE are removing such important aspects from its history?

What are you suggesting they do instead? Continue to advertise Benoit in match listings and in photos on both WWE.com and DVD covers, potentially opening themselves up to the criticism that they're using the likeness and/or name of a CHILD MURDERER to make money? I'm fucking blown away by the amount people calling it, "stupid," "crazy," or, "ridiculous," of the WWE to do this, because it's actually the most logical and sensible thing they could do considering the circumstances. By a mile. Edited July 14, 2007 by Supremo

[Phil Lowe]

According to Wikipedia, on the Wrestlemania Anthology match listing for Wrestlemania XX, the main event is listed as Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that WWE are removing such important aspects from its history?

What are you suggesting they do instead? Continue to advertise Benoit in match listings and in photos on both WWE.com and DVD covers, potentially opening themselves up to the criticism that they're using the likeness and/or name of a CHILD MURDERER to make money? I'm fucking blown away by the amount people calling it, "stupid," "crazy," or, "ridiculous," of the WWE to do this, because it's actually the most logical and sensible thing they could do considering the circumstances. By a mile.

Exactly. Don't forget that WWE have shareholders to answer to as well. Would somebody who has bought a stack of shares in WWE want to do so when they're advertising a murderer? I doubt it.

[WHERES LEROY]

According to Wikipedia, on the Wrestlemania Anthology match listing for Wrestlemania XX, the main event is listed as Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that WWE are removing such important aspects from its history?

What are you suggesting they do instead? Continue to advertise Benoit in match listings and in photos on both WWE.com and DVD covers, potentially opening themselves up to the criticism that they're using the likeness and/or name of a CHILD MURDERER to make money? I'm fucking blown away by the amount people calling it, "stupid," "crazy," or, "ridiculous," of the WWE to do this, because it's actually the most logical and sensible thing they could do considering the circumstances. By a mile.

But, if the DVD continues to show the event in its entirety, then who is it benefitting to omit him from the match listings? If, say, a mum buys a copy of WrestleMania XX for her son on the back of promises that Benoit isn't on the tape, everyone involved is going to have a bit of a shock later on. It's false advertising by omission.By all means give the cover of, say, Backlash 2004 a rework, but the cover blurb has to reflect what's actually contained on the DVD.I was quite surprised in picking up my copy of WM23 that they kept the Benoit/MVP match on board, to be honest. Perhaps they didn't have time to take it out.

[Guest Daniel85]

Its an awkward one but I kinda agree with the WWE in taking Benoit's name out of everything. Im not sure if they have done it to the packaging yet (have they?) but its gone off the website etc in the shopzone sections. It's an odd one because I dont really see it causing offence him being on, yet the WWE obviously feel uncomfortable with having a murderer's name on thier products.I dont think its fair to criticise them really as they are in a very tough situation with regards on how to handle the whole thing

[edgecrusher]

According to Wikipedia, on the Wrestlemania Anthology match listing for Wrestlemania XX, the main event is listed as Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that WWE are removing such important aspects from its history?

What are you suggesting they do instead? Continue to advertise Benoit in match listings and in photos on both WWE.com and DVD covers, potentially opening themselves up to the criticism that they're using the likeness and/or name of a CHILD MURDERER to make money? I'm fucking blown away by the amount people calling it, "stupid," "crazy," or, "ridiculous," of the WWE to do this, because it's actually the most logical and sensible thing they could do considering the circumstances. By a mile.

No it isn't. Unless they're going to cut every MATCH involving Benoit out of the DVDs as well, changing the match listing is completely pointless.What they should do is remove all of his matches, if they're going to go that route.

[DJ Kris]

According to Wikipedia, on the Wrestlemania Anthology match listing for Wrestlemania XX, the main event is listed as Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that WWE are removing such important aspects from its history?

What are you suggesting they do instead? Continue to advertise Benoit in match listings and in photos on both WWE.com and DVD covers, potentially opening themselves up to the criticism that they're using the likeness and/or name of a CHILD MURDERER to make money? I'm fucking blown away by the amount people calling it, "stupid," "crazy," or, "ridiculous," of the WWE to do this, because it's actually the most logical and sensible thing they could do considering the circumstances. By a mile.

No it isn't. Unless they're going to cut every MATCH involving Benoit out of the DVDs as well, changing the match listing is completely pointless.What they should do is remove all of his matches, if they're going to go that route.

Just because WWE don't feel they can erase Chris Benoit from their history, doesn't mean they have to promote him.

[klown]

Its an awkward one but I kinda agree with the WWE in taking Benoit's name out of everything. Im not sure if they have done it to the packaging yet (have they?) but its gone off the website etc in the shopzone sections. It's an odd one because I dont really see it causing offence him being on, yet the WWE obviously feel uncomfortable with having a murderer's name on thier products.I dont think its fair to criticise them really as they are in a very tough situation with regards on how to handle the whole thing

I honestly think its a no win situation, they dont take the name out, the naysayers will object. They do take the name out, the Benoit fans will object. Im still a Benoit fan, but the fact they have taken the name out doesnt bother me, as i know he still left a legacy of in-ring ability and i dont need his name on the box of a dvd to remind me. At the same time, i respect the wishes and thoughts of those that are on the opposite side of the fence. We are in the smartest era of wrestling fans ever, if you want to source out Benoit material, its not that hard to do.

[frank]

They will have to blur him out like they do the WWF logo.

[klown]

They will have to blur him out like they do the WWF logo.

thats the second time in one day this place has made me chuckle

[TheBigBoot]

"You can't tell the story of pro wrestling without talking about Chris Benoit" (Chris Jericho on Larry King Live). Interestingly enough the next question from a caller was on that subject who said "How does the panel feel about the WWE acting pretty much as if Chris Benoit never existed?" I would've been interested in what Jericho and Cena had to say.

[Metallica]

Here's a question: Is it possible to go back and watch a PPV from the 1980s up to 2004 and not come across at least one wrestler who has since died?

[The G]

Recap of Marc Mero, Penny Durham (the widow of Johnny Grunge), and Brian Alvarez & Finlay on CNN with Nancy Grace.

 

Last nights CNN Headline News with Nancy Grace was a very big feature on pro-wrestling and steroids. On her show tonight Nancy had special guests Marc Mero, Penny Durham (the widow of Johnny Grunge), and Brian Alvarez from figurefouronline.com. And as a very, very special guest, representing the WWE Dave Finlay AKA Fit Finlay or Finlay. For most of the night Finlay and Mero just went at everything that was talked about.

 

At the top of the show, Nancy announced that there were some new developments in the case against Dr. Phil Astin III. According to reports that had been passed along to CNN and Nancy Grace, a secret copy room was found in the offices of Dr. Astin. In this copy room, 68 boxes of files and record pertaining to former clients some of which are now dead. It is believed that a good portion of those names are wrestlers. It has been confirmed that at least on of the names in those boxes is Johnny Grunge of ECW’s THE PUBLIC ENEMY. But according to sources Brian Alvarez of figurefouronline.com, the list of wrestlers in the 68 boxes where not just name of WWE wrestlers but of Total Nonstop Action (TNA) Wrestling stars as well.

 

It was at this point that Nancy’s conversation with Alvarez turned solely to the deaths of the entire Benoit family. As a side note the funeral for Nancy and Daniel Benoit will take place today Saturday July 14th at one o’clock in Daytona Beach, FL. According to reports that he had received, Alvarez reported that just before her death, Nancy Benoit wanted to leave Chris Benoit. However the only confirmed item as far as marital problems that the Benoits had came in 2003 when Nancy filed for divorce from Chris, and received a restraining order against him. “Now that doesn’t rule out that they talked about their marital status…” said Brian Alvarez. He said that there was nothing completely concrete and official.

 

At one point in the evening Nancy got on the discussion of the toxicology report. She said that she was so confused and couldn’t understand why it is taking so long to publish the findings of the toxicology report. She said that when she was an attorney they had the results of a toxicology report within three days. Alvarez had this to say, “Well it probably is taking so long because they are testing not only for steroids, but Benoits blood alcohol level, and other street drugs.

 

Alvarez told the viewers his findings as far as what the drug test policy in the WWE is. He said that if thy find a steroid ratio of 4:1 that is an automatic pass. If you have a ratio of 10:1 or higher, it’s an automatic failure. If your ratio is between 10:1 and 4:1 you are questioned as it is possible for the body to produce enough testosterone and steroids to make your ratio that high. However the loophole is that if you have a letter from your doctor saying that you need a certain medication in order to compete they wave everything off.

 

Nancy then brought on a Doctor of whom she asked if steroid traces can be found in hair and nails and fibers. The answer was yes, but it must be found within two weeks or you will lose the sample, and it must be a very high dose. She also asked how long roids are in your system. The response was 12-24 hours.

 

At this point in time, Marc Mero was brought onto the show. Nancy got right to the hard questions. She asked him how these wrestlers can try to make their negative test into a positive test without the testers knowing. He replied by saying that when he was in World Championship Wrestling (WCW) they would squirt Visine into the sample which would work to clear up the sample altogether. This was when Nancy’s show got interesting. She brought on Dace Finlay aka Fit Finlay and Finlay. She asked him form his personal experience what the screening process is like. He had this to say, “The screening process is very comprehensive. They are very strict in the way that they go about screening. You must give your sample in front of all the testers…. WCW tried to do this and failed…. It was within the last year and a half that they got this very comprehensive test…. If you do have the high ratio, and if you have a prescription that could be causing it, you must bring a letter from your doctor to give to Dr. Black (the man in charge of all the tests) and he will determine if you really do need this prescription or if it a frivolous prescription…. It is all a surprise test…. You are watched very carefully…. We just had to take a test last week.” Finlay then went on to explain how the test is always changing to try to stay ahead of the changes that are being made in steroids and hiding them. It was at this point that Brian Alvarez was asked to talk about the information that he had found as far as the WWE steroid policy. (The ratios mentioned earlier) Finlay had this to say in response, “You’ve never stepped foot in a WWE ring, you’ve never even walked through those doors at the WWE. II do it everyday. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

 

In his defense Alvarez said that all of his information had come from the lawyer from the WWE, Jeremy McDivit.

 

Penny Durham, the widow of Johnny Grunge, was brought back onto the show. She said that she had to say something that she was going to wait to say till after the funeral, but she just had to say it now. Back in 2003 when Nancy Benoit filled for divorce, she and Penny were talking and Nancy Benoit told Penny that she didn’t want a divorce and that she loved Chris. Nancy told Penny that the only problems they were having were the same ones that all married couples have. Penny was also told that the main problem was that Chris was having trouble dealing with not being able to see his other kids from his other marriage. Penny then said that we’ll never know the truth of what happened in the Benoit home. She said that she spoke to Chris’s family and to Nancy’s family and they all said that this was very unchararistic of Chris. They still don’t think that he could’ve done that.

 

Nancy Grace turned the focus at this point to Penny’s story, and what her little five year old son, Chase Durham, said on Johnny Grunges birthday. (He said to his mom, “Mommy can we go to heaven and visit daddy on his birthday?”) Penny told Nancy Grace that the reason that they had this new picture of Grunge was because she had to take it from Chase. But when she did, she had to tell him not to crumple it up. But he didn’t really care about that, because what he said next to his mom was very touching. “But mom, I’m trying to give daddy a hug.”

 

(Note: at this point the show went to a commercial and they played a clip of Penny on the show the other day. In the clip she says and I quote “This is my chance to speak out against these doctors. These doctors are nothing more than suburbanite drug dealers.”)

 

Nancy Grace announced that congressional hearings into professional wrestling may come as soon as Sept.

 

Nancy asked Marc Mero if he regrets being this lighting rod for slander from the current wrestlers in the WWE, and his response was no. He said that if what he’s doing can save lives, and that he would do this till the day he dies. “And I want to make one thing abundantly clear, I DO NOT, hate the wrestling business. I love it.”

 

In response Finlay had about the same reaction as that he had with Brian Alvarez. He said to Mero, “You’re not part of this business anymore. You haven’t been for eight years.” (My opinion: This next part was a slap in the face of Penny Durham) “We make enough money to afford health insurance and retirement benefits. If you’re going to go spend hundreds of dollars on a wrist watch, then obviously you don’t know how to manage your money, something that my parents taught me when I was very young.”

 

A question was posed by a caller, “The feds found numerous boxes of steroids in the Benoit home, and I would like to know if he was selling them to other wrestlers.” To this Finlay had this to say, “I know nothing about Benoit selling drugs to other wrestlers. I can tell you this. I knew Chris Benoit very well and this was not the Benoit that I knew. My heart and prayers go out to the families of all involved. I fell that this all points back to the WWE and all of wrestling in that we’re getting a bad brake because of these rouge doctors. And it’s not just wrestlers. Its football players and baseball players as well. You cannot blame us. Our job is to entertain the fans.”

 

Mero interjected that he feels that this is not just a problem in the WWE but in the entire industry. Mero and Finlay got into a major argument, which was stopped by Nancy Grace who just went off on Finlay and Marc Mero.

 

Nancy said that she doesn’t blame the WWE for steroid problems. She says that these gentlemen try to stay in the best shape that they possibly can to keep up the appearance with the fans and so they can stay in this business.

 

To end the show Penny Durham said that she agrees with Finlay in that people make the choice themselves. But steroid and painkiller use is very prudent in this business. “The pills are very easy to get to and then all the more easier to take.”

 

(Side note: The other day I reported that the prosecutors were going to file a superseding indictment. A superseding indictment is an indictment that over rules and nullifies the previous one.

Edited July 14, 2007 by The G