Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

The problem with Albright in this situation is that in the WWE system he wasn't a huge guy who could easily overpower people, he was average sized and therefore the technical wrestling was a part of his act, especially in OVW. Obviously, on the indies he is a lot bigger than average so the power moves stand out more. That's got to be pretty boring to Albright, though.

Maybe, but the fact remains that watching him work a body part is like watching paint dry

[Pete Scott]

Has anyone seen Go Shiozaki vs. Necro Butcher yet? Sounds pretty damn good, but I'd only be buying the DVD for that, so I'd appreciate an opinion on it.

I thought it was good, nothing blowaway but still worth a look. I'd probably only buy the show though if your into Kevin Steen as he's the star of the show.

I'd largely agree with this. The match is definately worth a look, the strike exchanges are sick. If you liked Necro/Joe you'll enjoy this match.

[liverpool1]

Are the Fight Network showing new episodes of ROH now? Tonight's has Kenta vs Roderick Strong whick i dont remember seeing on it before. The synopsis is funny on Sky Guide. Apparently there is a triple threat match involving some wrestler called PJ Whitman?! I know BJ Whitmer isnt the most famous wrestler but that is a pretty dumb mistake lol.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Are the Fight Network showing new episodes of ROH now? Tonight's has Kenta vs Roderick Strong whick i dont remember seeing on it before. The synopsis is funny on Sky Guide. Apparently there is a triple threat match involving some wrestler called PJ Whitman?! I know BJ Whitmer isnt the most famous wrestler but that is a pretty dumb mistake lol.

P.J. Whitman is probably a better worker than B.J. Whitmer

[The Cum Doctor]

P.J. Whitman is probably a better worker than B.J. Whitmer

The poor thing is that I find myself sympathising here. Why so sad ?I remember when I really enjoyed watching Whitmer. He's a decent brawler. He's not the worst wrestler. He can have good matches now and again. But he was so badly pushed down the throats of everyone and has never really recovered. Now and again, I watch the matches with Super Dragon, Necro Butcher and Homicide to remind myself that he can go at times.

[Devon Malcolm]

Yes, his matches with Super Dragon were very good, and he has had several other decent matches. But he struggles with consistency and once the whole CZW feud ended, he just reverted back to a position where ROH just didn't seem to know what to do with him.But yes, the Fight Network is showing 'new' ROH at last. About fucking time an' all.

[alexander]

Whitmer was great all the way through the CZW/ROH feud (which gave a lift to a few so-so wrestlers), and during the feud with Jimmy Jacobs (because Jacobs is fucking awesome). Whenever he's put in a situation where an unbreakable head and the ability to juice loads can't carry him through, he's back to doing all Jun Akiyama's spots to zero reaction.

[gadge]

double post, see below...

Edited May 27, 2008 by gadgetboy

[gadge]

I've watched Without Remorse now, but I can't be arsed to go in-depth, so I'll just say that Nigel McGuinness vs Roderick Strong was a good, hard hitting World Title match, the formation of "Team Work" (Danielson and Aries) was entertaining and led to a good match with Erick Stevens and Jay Briscoe, and the later Ultimate Endurance was perfectly fine. The feud-ending Dog Collar match between Adam Pearce and Delirious went on too long, but the rivalry rekindling draw between Claudio Castagnoli and El Generico was a lot of fun, I can't wait to see more between those two. Joey Matthews vs Mark Briscoe was better than I expected, too...

 

 

FIP Redefined - Crystal River, FL 16.02.08

 

It's not ROH, but this had build throughout the ROH January shows, and features a title change with rematches later on in ROH, and the show is well worth going out of your way to see, so it's getting a review here.

 

FIP was reborn here, with ROH's lighting towers giving this the look of the later Murphy Rec shows, or maybe PWG in Orpington Halls. The more family filled crowd is rabid.

 

Austin Aries vs DP Associate Davey Richards w/ Dave Prazak and Milo Beasley is up first. Dave Prazak's heel manager schtick has been very successful in FIP since late-2004, and he's out right away promising more domination of the Redefined FIP. Austin Aries comes out, in his first FIP appearance for more than a year, when he was previously one of many, many names to be under the Prazak managerial umbrella. They go back and forth, eventually agreeing on Prazak's managerial license vs Aries' FIP career stipulations.

 

The resulting match is a lot of fun. There's a lot less pressure on both guys to go all out in the ring, and Richards gets a lot of heat by stalling early. When the numbers get the better of him, Aries selling is really good, and his comebacks are timed well. Beasley gets the obligatory senton off the apron in while the ref is distracted. The concluding parts of the match are really good, with some super-close nearfalls, until Richards taps (quickly) to the Horns of Aries. Prazak's post-match tantrum is right out of the Jim Cornette school of heel managing.

 

The YRR then make a grand entrance in a convertible, pick two guys I've never heard of out of the crowd, and set up an FIP Tag Team Title match for later. Chasyn Rance then cheats his way to a win over Seth Delay in a basic but inoffensive match, before we get to more good stuff...

 

The YRR's Rain (aka Peyton Banks in TNA) and Lacey, the Minnesota Home Wrecking Crew, face Allison Danger and Trenesha (now Rhaka Khan in TNA) in a good, long women's tag team bout. Danger does most of the work for her team, which was nice as it's been ages since she was in ROH last. Trenesha is pretty good at cleaning house and using The Claw~! and avoiding anything over-complicated. Lacey and Rain dominate for the most part, and more interference leads to Trenesha tapping out to a Triangle Choke.

 

Post-match, though, the redefinition of FIP continues, as Tyler Black comes out, and talks Lacey and Rain away from the YRR. Age Of The Fall has arrived in FIP.

 

The YRR go 3-0 for the evening as Kenny King and Jason Blade successfully defend their newly won (from The Briscoes, no less) FIP Tag Team Titles against Robert Anthony and Shawn Osborne. According to the commentary, Anthony and Osborne are apparently from the Florida independent scene, and also from Chicago, which is weird. This was fine as a basic southern tag, which works fine in front of this crowd. The YRR as a group look really good in FIP, where it's easier to get heat and there's much less pressure for great in-ring performance.

 

Anything Goes non-title action between ROH World Champion Nigel McGuinness and Necro Butcher is the second match on the show that would easily be a top match on any ROH card. ROH continuity is maintained as Necro comes out with Tyler Black, but Black returns to the back after the ring entrance. Necro has some fan support as well, as the crowd is for the first time somewhat split.

 

They brawl right around the building, with Necro dominating to start, but Nigel taking over, then Necro does his arm in and Nigel works that over in the ring. Necro attempts his comebacks with punches, and his usual chair-based spots, while Nigel seems to be preparing for his impending ROH heel turn, shrugging that off and nonchalantly kicking at the arm. Nigel wins in the end with a nasty looking Tower of London on a chair into the London Dungeon on the injured arm for the submission.

 

After a video for the Best of CM Punk in FIP: Rise of the New Dawn DVD (most of which appears to be the early FIP shows in front of 50 people tops), FIP Florida Heritage Champion Sal Rinauro comes out and calls out Tyler Black over his stealing the women from the YRR earlier. Black comes out and a Florida Heritage title match is on. I wonder how Erick Stevens reign with that belt was, as his title tournament victory to crown the first champion was the last time I saw any FIP.

 

The match starts with Black showing veteran prescence beyond his short time in ROH/FIP, as he calmly evades the onrushing Sal with ease. His calmness combined with fast paced offence quickly earn him a big face reaction, as the match is hot hot hot early on. From there, things unfold like a really good WWE TV match, as Rinauro controls for a while, Black comes back so convincingly all the rest of the YRR come to ringside, Black even takes them out for a bit, gets a couple of REALLY close nearfalls, before falling to a top rope spinning kick (think Kofi Kingston's Trouble in Paradise).

 

Second to last is a feud ending Handicap match. I haven't seen much of it, but I've followed results of FIP and know Black Market beat The Heartbreak Express in a bloody Cage of Pain match (Cage with weapons inside) to end their original feud, then teamed with the Heartbreak Express some months later against the YRR in Cage of Pain II, which Black Market and the Heartbreak Express won, only for the lights to go out and the Heartbreak Express to turn on Black Market, I think using a fireball.

 

Well, one half of Black Market isn't at the show, supposedly 'taken out by two men in ski masks at his home'. As the commentators discuss the obvious treachery of the Heartbreak Express, the remaining member, Shawn Murphy, takes on both members of the Heartbreak Express, with the original stipulation of losing team can never wrestle in FIP again still in place. Murphy is beaten and bloodied in generic handicap style, but not before bloodying both members of the Heartbreak Express, with the conclusion of the match being a short flurry where Murphy scores an upset pin with a lariat with a chain around his arm. The crowd pops big for that. While the action here wasnt great, the bloodletting kept your interest for what wasn't an overly long match. In a twist, two other men, in ski masks, and completely disguised in baggy clothes, jump Murphy afterwards...

 

FIP World Heavyweight Title Match: Erick Stevens vs Roderick Strong - I love both the Battle of the Belts match between these two where Stevens became first FIP Florida Heritage Champion, and the match between them at ROH Man Up! to decide the best of three between the NRC and the Resilience. The Final Battle 2007 match between the two where Stevens won the belt, which is included as an extra on the DVD for the FIP fans, I didn't like as much as it started with a pretty dead crowd. Maybe I'll have to rewatch.

 

This, though, may be the best of the bunch to this point. Maybe. In FIP, Strong has never been the clubbering NRC leader, he's been good guy, home state World Heavyweight Champion. Stevens, of course, is also from Florida, and their rivalry has been based on their hard hitting qualities alone. So, hard hitting is exactly what both men bring to the table, with blistering chop exchanges. Stevens is really good at combining powerful offense with facial expressions that show both confidence and happiness that stems from his new status as champion, as well as the odd moment where, as a comparative rookie, he's still slightly unsure of himself.

 

As the match progresses, it's Strong who takes control as the man who held the belt for a year. Still, Stevens isn't one to give up, and Strong begins to show very subtle hints of frustration. Things explode when Strong suddenly picks up the title belt on the floor, a tug-of-war with the referee ensues, and as Strong forces the belt away from the ref, it slingshots into the side of Stevens' head, laying him out and busting him WIDE open. Strong quickly dives into the ring where the ref is now on the verge of calling a DQ, and pleads for him not to stop the match there.

 

The ref is eventually talked round, but when Strong goes back to Stevens, he still can't finish him off. The match really picks up steam here as Strong gets several nearfalls, then Stevens starts a big comeback. As Stevens comes close to victory, Strong pulls the referee in the way of a charging Stevens, laying the ref out. Strong and Stevens end up back out on the floor, where Strong lays Stevens out with a chair, then goes back into the ring and revives the ref. The ref counts Stevens out of the ring, reaching the 20 count just as Stevens is using the ropes to pull himself up on the apron, which under the rules of FIP title matches installed by Strong when he was champion, is enough for a title change.

 

The post match image of Stevens collapsing back to the floor in a heap, while Strong is awarded the belt in the ring and joined by No Remorse Corps member Davey Richards, is damned good, and leaves the door open for yet more in the story.

 

And so that was the redefinition of FIP. Three matches that would be considered very good on any ROH card, in the main event, Nigel/Necro, and Aries/Richards, and I also liked Black/Rinauro and the women's tag match a lot. Better than that, EVERYTHING on the show meant something. This truly was the start of a new era, as FIP staples DP Associates and the Heartbreak Express were banished (sort of, as Prazak is still commentating, and I believe the Heartbreak Express are found a different role later on), some storylines were moved closer to their ROH counterparts as Age of the Fall and No Remorse Corps debuted, and the YRR remain a dominant faction with 4 victories in 4 matches.

 

I'd rate this over a number of ROH shows from the past 12 months. I've never felt that about an FIP show before. Check it out.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I might just buy that FIP show after that review. And they say I'm not open-minded....

 

Glory By Honor 6 Night 1 - 2/11/07

 

Tremendous. I put this disc in, and obviously the first thing on it is Becky Bayless. My Dad walked into the room, and he started to say something, but then stopped in mid-sentence. He obviously thought I was watching porn. And who can blame him?

 

Brent Albright & B.J. Whitmer vs Kevin Steen & El Generico - an average match, which Generico carries for the most part with his tremendous bumping and selling. Steen hit

[gadge]

Night 2 was definitely where the best action is for GBH VI weekend. You just missed out on a good opportunity to get the FIP show, as the 25% off sale ended last night I think.

[LariatTom]

But yes, the Fight Network is showing 'new' ROH at last. About fucking time an' all.

I know what you mean by "new". The stuff we're getting is just short of two years old. I watched one sometime last week that had the first UK shows being advertised on the scrolling bar on the bottom...but at we're getting some newer stuff now. We might be getting Respect is Earned by sometime next year with some luck! ;)And wow, I need to start buying some more ROH shows. I'm missing out on some really good stuff.

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Night 2 was definitely where the best action is for GBH VI weekend. You just missed out on a good opportunity to get the FIP show, as the 25% off sale ended last night I think.

Not to worry, they have sales all the time these days.

[gadge]

I just got done with the Eye of the Storm/Sixth Anniversary Show weekend. The latter show is essential for the top three matches for the tag, FIP and World titles, plus a killer Go Shiosaki vs Austin Aries match on the undercard, and some fun matches below that. All the matches in the one night tournament that takes up most of Eye of the Storm are worth a watch, but overall it's the weaker of the two shows. Rather than analyse match-by-match, I'm going to look at the wrestlers most prominently featured...Go Shiosaki - Four matches in two nights make the US arrival of Go very memorable indeed. His opening round match of the Eye of the Storm tournament with Necro Butcher is perhaps the best match of that show, a hard hitting war. The Austin Aries match the next night, though, is really, really great. With the McGuinnes/Danielson match that main events the Sixth Anniversary Show being more story-driven than their previous encounters, it could even be seen as the athletic match of the weekend. Kevin Steen - The other man to wrestle four matches over the two shows, I enjoyed all three of his tournament matches, from the comedy based Delirious match, to a more technical encounter with Bryan Danielson, to the hard hitting finals with Go. The match the next night with Joey Matthews is also perfectly watchable. Steen's match pacing is the thing that stands out, as the matches are all structured nicely. A 4-0 singles record and title shot in the bag is certainly good for building him as a championship contender, though him and Generico (theoretically) as tag champs works a lot better for me than him challenging Nigel. Necro Butcher - As good as his match with Go Shiosaki was at Eye of the Storm, i got fed up with his groaning style of selling the hard chops. Not sure if he could help it, to be fair. On a lesser show, his no-DQ three-way with Roderick Strong and Erick Stevens for the FIP title in Manhattan would have absolutely stolen the show, excellent stuff. Austin Aries - An upset loss to El Generico in the first round of the Eye of the Storm tournament helped further his losing streak-Age of the Fall recruitment angle, while a big win in excellent style over Go Shiosaki the next night made him look great. Post-match, he looked good in the ring with Tammy Sytch as the Age of the Fall again tried to recruit him. The Go match really is a must-see, and nicely sets up his rematch with Nigel for Supercard of Honor 3 when i get that far. Bryan Danielson - While only winning one of his three matches, the win over Rocky Romero was a good match with a better than usual Romero performance, and the Steen loss was explainable as he was severely weakened and already had a title shot the next night he needed to protect. In Manhattan, he abandoned his tweener-isms for an excellent verbal showdown with Nigel, that set up the nuances of their main event match wonderfully. With everyone in the crowd behind him, the full on babyface performance in the match itself was excellent. Nigel McGuinness - While he was one of the names absent from Eye of the Storm, his evil, scheming side came out wonderfully in Manhattan. I can't wait to see more title defenses now he's full blown heel. Rocky Romero and Davey Richards - Romero had a good match with Danielson, singles style, at Eye of the Storm, before the team of Romero and Richards had their coming out party against Ruckus and Jigsaw in their first defense of the tag titles. A much better combination than Strong and Richards or Strong and Romero, their match with Jigsaw and Ruckus was a pure spotfest, but a really good one at that. Why they later lost the titles back to the Briscoes, and Strong is once again in the NRC team for the upcoming tag tournament, I have no idea. The post match dodge of Steen and Generico left me itching to see Romero and Richards vs Steen and Generico...Delirious - back to doing comedy stylings vs Kevin Steen at Eye of the Storm, and facing/teaming with Human Tornado in Manhattan, was much better than the Hangm3n feud. Has a place in the midcard still, I feel. Ruckus and Jigsaw - The only tag team to wrestle as a team on both nights, which is ironic seeing as how the Vulture Squad have been missing members left, right and centre this year. The match with Jimmy Jacobs and Zack Gowan was surprisingly watchable, even Gowan pulled his weight. The tag title shot the next night never felt like their moment to win the belts, but as a fast paced defense for the No Remorse Corps, it was damned good. I don't want to see Jigsaw wrestling without the mask, but it looks like it's on the way...This was certainly a good weekend of shows, both from an action and booking standpoint. The dodgy Larry Sweeney Show angles (especially the one with Bobby Dempsey and Allison Danger on the Anniversary Show) aside, there was a freshness, which can partly be blamed on the weather for the first show, but from these shows, the seventh year of ROH seems to be moving in new directions. I like it...

Edited May 30, 2008 by gadgetboy

[spurs 4 life]

They have a great $5 dvd sale going on on the ROH website. I got straight shootin with kamala, Percy pringle, Mr Fuji and 2 cold scorpio for a fiver a piece. Plus i treated myself to Mid south wrestling giants, heroes, midgets and villans volume 2 and the 2 Orlando shows. All this came to just over 40 quid including postage. Really happy with it.