The Poker Thread

[Ron&Hermione]

The most anticipated thread Is here, wanted by all ones of you!

 

Obviously this thread can be used for questions and analysis, stories and whatever else you want to discuss about poker.

 

I have one rule for this thread: No moaning about bad beat stories, well for too long. I used to do it a bit, but I had an epiphany once where I realised something and never again have I been tilted by a bad beat. Anyone who has played poker for a good amount of time (especially online) has seen EVERY type of bad beat, suck out and circumstance there is in poker. Nothing is really surprising or shocking when it comes to a bad beat. I've had my nut flush beaten by runner runner straight flush cards. I've hit one outers and had them hit on me countless times, it's all been done before. You have done it to people and they have done it to you, so why even get mad or upset?

 

If you get your chips in good, then you aren't allowed to complain as you did the right thing, you made the right decision at that point in time, the rest is down to the cards. And if you get them in bad, then "gg u donk" (a phrase wankers like to use).

 

I used to play poker a lot, like a ridiculous amount. Mainly live MTTs at any stake between £30 to £770 (ukipts) and one EPT London a few years back which was a £5,000 buy in. Though I didn't buy in directly as I won a satellite, which are great if you want to give them a shot. I much prefer live as it suits my game far more than online. I would also play cash when the tournaments were shit or if I busted and couldn't be bothered to go home. Usually stakes of £1-£2, sitting down with £500 (table dependant). Though I have played some higher stakes, only when I played at The Vic as they have the tables for it.

 

The thing people need to accept, and where ego sometimes doesn't let you, is where you have an edge. For me I felt indestructible at any tournament under about £300 buy in. I would feel comfortable and know I am a better player than a lot of people... Actually a more experienced player, as 'better' isn't that important, experience is.

 

I realised my level back when I went on a hot streak and won or chopped the £80 Vic daily tournaments about 5 times in a row, each time picking up between £1,500 and £2,200 (those tourneys used to get about 100 people a night, brilliant value). Along with other tournaments I did well in. So my confidence was sky high and decided to play some bigger events at the GUKPT and I think UKIPT though can't remember for sure. I jumped in a £300 PLO event and managed to finish 5th for about £2,500, as PLO isn't my specialty I got so much confidence and my ego was insanely high. I genuinely thought I could destroy any game. Then came a £500 6-max tournament, now I used to be pretty tight-aggressive so full ring suited me, but I thought fuck it I can do this.... Well turned out I couldn't, it was the most embarrassing tournament I have ever played (and I've busted tournaments in the first level before), I had no idea where I was in any hand. I didn't understand the values of my hand in the situation. It was so embarrassing that I started to wish I would just bust, luckily I got my wish. I was out within 2 hours and no doubt every other player at the table had laughed at how shit I was.

 

After that I changed my game, really tried to learn everything. I read and watched so much Phil Galfond (his mind is incredible) til I felt comfortable playing at any stake. I consumed myself with poker, looking back it was probably too much, I mean I would spend every available hour reading and learning. Whenever I played bigger tournaments and ones with pros I felt a bit better, though still nervous and out of my depth. The last live tournament I played was the £500 WPT in Nottingham, which I fired off two bullets and felt very comfortable. Many pros were playing that tournament, also Carl Froch was there playing as a sponsored athlete.

 

My game is completely different to the one I started with, like I said I used to be a rock. I was far too scared to bluff as I always had it in my head "what if he calls?! Then what you idiot!!", that's not how you should be thinking. You should try and think more in terms of whether bluffing makes sense, whether it makes sense you actually have what you are representing in that spot. Or at least think they are weak and you can take the pot.

 

Bluffing doesn't always go to plan, for instance - the reason I took two bullets in the WPT500? I thought it was a good idea to bluff, at a point where a bluff made no sense. I was just in the mood and wanted to see if I could get it through. Here is what happened. (And yes, in the most wankerish poker speak you could imagine)

 

9 handed table blinds 100-200 25ante, playing 150bb, utg raises 2.5x, utg+1 and I flat, flats round to cutoff who raises to 1,400, button & small blind call. Big blind raises to 5,200. Folds round to me, I just think that it's a perfect spot for big blind to raise. All he has to do is get his bet through the original raiser as none of the callers are calling and the cutoff is most likely trying to steal. So with my 4h2h I decide to shove for 30,000 (remember the pot is about 13,000 of dead money) and everyone folds (cutoff was clearly stealing). Gets to big blind where he tanks for 5 minutes!! Til he finally correctly realises that what hand am I even representing there? To be honest there isn't one. The ONLY hand I could possibly have there is AK. And trying to play conservatively as we are so deep. So my range is precisely one hand (including AK suited). Plus the likely hood that the original raiser and then callers would likely have an Ace or King (the original raiser would almost certainly always have one). I wouldn't have played JJs/10s/99s that way given the action ahead, I would have flatted the 5,400 as we were so deep and makes no sense to play for stacks so early on. It was like the fifth level of a three day tournament. Plus the maths to flat would have been awesome, 5,000 to win 18,000, with maybe more to come from behind.Yeah that would have been a call. In the end he finally found a call with Queens, I didn't mind the tank, didn't think it was a slow roll. He just had to make sure he wasn't flipping. It was either AK or nothing, sadly it was nothing. The flop was pretty great for me, I had a pair and a gutshot, but the Queens held.

 

Ugh, writing that makes me remember how much I hate poker speak and players. I intentionally made it as wankery as possible!

 

Anyway, I'm not an expert, I'm not really saying I am. I have had a lot of experience and keep upto date with poker and watch it a lot and understand it. So I will be here for questions or anything really. I used to be a pretty big degenerate so poker really was up my street for a long time. Then I got a girlfriend and didn't want to spend evenings after work with grown men or 20something douchebags when I could be spending it wit her!

 

Feel free to share stories or really whatever you want. I have so many poker stories but this post was too long as it was, so will post them later.

 

JUST NO BAD BEAT COMPLAINING!

[Undefeated Steak]

Nice one for doing this, enjoyed reading that. I'll be looking at getting into some live tournaments this summer so I'll give you a shout when I do. One thing's for sure, I won't be doing any cash table games.

 

I used to play a lot of chess and did relatively well on the foreign exchange market (until the twats suspended my account) so I'm hoping I can use some of my experience from that to help in my tournament strategy. Have you ever read Daniel Kahneman's Thinking, Fast and Slow? There's some good advice in there on how to think logically and not let unnecessary emotions affect your judgement of situations.

 

If I win a big pot, I'll almost always fold the next two or three hands. I don't want to make it a habit but whilst I'm still learning the fundamentals it stops me from making irrational decisions and making a mistake. It gives me a minute or so to refocus. I've already seen players win a big pot and then screw it up in the next hand, probably chasing a pot that they wouldn't normally go after.

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, I just entered my first real money tourney. It was a 40 seater and I got onto the final 8 table (top 8 paid), and I grinded someone out on there. I think I was so excited from making it onto the table that I messed up, and within 20 minutes on that table I'd gone all in on an AK and bust.

 

I'll try and enter an online tourney most nights when I can (low entry fees, £1-£5) and do that for a couple of months. Hey, it's cheaper than going for a pint. Are there any live tourneys in the UK you can recommend this summer? Travelling isn't much of an issue if the event's worth it.

 

Cheers for starting this thread!

[Ron&Hermione]

Ah you're a chess player, that makes sense. Chess and poker have a pretty long history, loads of pros have come from chess backgrounds. Probably the most famous and successful being Ike Haxton, who is worth looking up and reading about. He thinks about the game mostly from a maths and logic point of view. There is always the joke a commentator says when Ike makes an unconventional play "if it was anyone but Haxton I would question what he was thinking." He is pretty much known as the best heads up player in the world, or at least one of about three. The two games go hand in hand in some areas, personally I think it's more help for online play rather than live but it's in no way a detriment live.

 

I haven't read that book, I will check it out at some point. Yeah thinking logically and keeping a level head really is the main thing about live poker. Anyone can get the basics, it's just understanding spots in play to take advantage of.

 

The sitting out hands is something every novice does (again please don't think I'm being condescending or anything, I don't want to come off as "poker wizard" who knows everything. I don't!), I used to do it myself. A stack is just a stack, a big stack allows you to make more moves but at the same time a small stack can put just as much pressure on opponents.

 

It all depends on your image, however in low stakes tournaments many people don't actually acknowledge image. It's quite funny actually, people will level themselves into various plays because they give their opponent too much credit for lateral thinking. When in fact that opponent just called because he thought 3rd pair was good. It's hilarious as that's the exact time when you see people get pissed and start being dicks. They do the whole "I'm better than you, you're shit. Watch you won't even cash. Blah blah blah".

 

Overthinking may well be a problem for you when you start really diving into poker theory. Don't get me wrong it's great and really helps with your game, it's just you will soon find many people have no clue. These are the people who call 3bets with gutshots with no other outs. If you remember that people can be idiots and don't understand why it's wrong to call, then you won't tilt. That I promise. It's their cards, they can do what they want, over the long run it should work out in your favour, as you will likely want them to make the wrong play. Even if it succeeds that one time.

 

Not really sure what the problem is about making the money then shipping it with AK (a top 10 hand), once you make the money in a MTT you should be doing everything you can to get 1st, as the pay jumps are big and all the money is for the top 3. Finishing 5th to 8th is nothing usually, compared to the value of making top 3. So that's where you want to try and exploit the table.

 

It's all about practice, I definitely suggest keep doing what you're doing, maybe throw in a few spin & Go's (if you're on Stars that is) maybe the $1 ones. Just so you can see what short handed small stack poker is like. However not important as you will want to have experience of navigating through fields first. People tend to think making final tables of MTTs is luck, it really isn't. Navigating fields and picking spots is a skill, one I will toot my own horn about. As I can make final tables, but my end game in tournaments was dreadful. I used to shut up shop and play the pay jump game, I was one of the worst final table players ever. I never wanted to risk chips as I thought they were too valuable, completely ignoring that it's the same or everyone. I genuinely used to 5x opens or just play the push fold game. And that's why I would finish 4th or 5th a lot of the times. It's very unsatisfying as you make money but miss out on real money. Just like navigating a field to make the final table is a skill, the final table itself is a massive skill which is difficult to master.

 

As for live tournaments, if you just get the Grosvenor live poker app that will have all the tournaments in their casinos around the country. If you're anywhere near Nottingham then they have the absolute best poker room in the country, with lots of tournaments. The ukipt is running all over this summer along with the gukpt (Grosvenor's festival) so there should be plenty of tournaments of all ranges. The Grosvenor tournaments range anywhere from £1 entry (unlimited re-buys £10) to £200 tournaments, with everything in between.

 

Keep an eye out and really find which tournaments you prefer (as there are different kinds), usually to start with its better to go for any deep stack tournaments. That way you can settle in, find your feet and actually play some poker without worrying too much about every mistake.

 

Also when I have time I will go online and play some tournaments with you or rail you for a bit, doesn't bother me at all when I'm online as I can have it on whenever.

 

(I understand my posts are probably going to be long and sometimes boring. I will try and write a few funny and ridiculous poker stories in the next few days to liven it up.)

[Glenryck Pilchards]

The best value poker tour at the moment is the Grosvenor Casinos 25/25 Series. The buy-in is £200 + £20 reg fee,you get 25,000 chips and the prize-pool is guaranteed at £25,000. The beauty of this series there is bound to be a tournament to a casino close to you. I will be playing at the Stockton event in June and I am hoping to fair better than my attempt last year where I dropped out six hours into the event.  

 

For a one off event, The Goliath in Coventry is ridiculously good value. Last year it was the biggest tournament in the world outside the USA. The buy-in is £100 + £10 reg and the prize pool is guaranteed at £250,000. Last year it attracted around 3,700 runners. The only issue is the Day 1's are spread over 5 days, so if you bought in on the first day you have a long wait until you play day 2! 

 

To use football leagues as an analogy I would say my level is currently Conference North* with the potential of doing a good cup run. My local card room is the Grosvenor in Stockton and it is proving to be a good breeding ground for poker players In the last couple of years there has been a strong showing from Teesside lads in the UKIPT series. At UKIPT London last year three of the lads made deep cashes including the eventual winner Brett Angell. This has been great for myself honing my skills winning a few tournaments there and also winning an FLO Hi-Lo tournament in Vegas. I have just got a new job with a better salary so I am hoping to play in more 25/25 games this year to build a bankroll and move up to the GUKPT series. The ultimate dream is to have a crack at the WSOP Main Event. One can dream!

 

A few years ago we had a regular UKFF sit n go tournament on Pokerstars for $5 a man. Would anyone be interested in starting this up again?

 

 

 

*How I rank the tournament series at the moment is WSOP - Champions League, WPT - Europa League EPT - Premier League, UKIPT - Championship, GUKPT - League One, 25/25 Series - Conference, Local Games - Northern Premier League  

[Ron&Hermione]

I figure to keep the thread alive and somewhat enjoyable I will write a few stories and whatnot from time to time about my time playing poker. As poker is sort of relatable to wrestling in the weird britwres culture of collusion, dickish nature and all out sliminess.

 

My first post will be about blow ups, for those reading who don't know what a blow up is. Well it's basically not taking a bad beat very well and pretty much going apeshit.

 

Poker Blow Ups

 

I used to play poker at Grosvenor's back when it was self deal tables, about 6 or so years ago. I would go with my Irish friend who was 6ft 4 and built like Seamus, the guy was the sweetest and most laid back guy you could ever imagine. To the point where I had never actually seen him angry. We were at different tables but my back was to his as they were pretty close, during one hand of play I hear him say "all in" so I turn around to see and he is holding his cards in a way where I could see them. He had a set of 9s on a 9x 10x 6x Ax board. The guy he is against thinks for about a minute before calling. Flips over his hand and has pocket 7s, and wouldn't you know it the 8 comes on the river! Knocking my friend out. I say how shit his call was (it was terrible) and turn back to my table... The next thing I see is chips and the deck of cards flying everywhere, a card lands on me. I turn around and my friend has gone mental, he threw the chips at the guy, started yelling at him and threw the pack of cards in the air. He did everything but turn the table over. The poor guy who called was shit scared, and I don't blame him! It was a scary sight. My friend then walked out for a cigarette without saying anything. To this day I can't believe he did that, pretty sure he was one of the reasons we eventually got dealers for all games.

 

 

Playing at Grosvenor's usually means there are a load of regulars, probably 70% regulars and 30% newbies for each game and that's a nice mix to have if you're playing tournaments. So I got to know everyone there, especially as I am outgoing and easy to talk to. I never really got arsey with anyone, so whenever I was at a table people knew that I would talk and relieve the tension. I am saying this because it doesn't always work!!

I have seen precisely one fist fight happen at a poker table, and you will see how easy it is for egos to take over, as the two who got in the fight were regulars who never even gave off the impression of that sort. It happened so innocuously as well! The hand was playing out where there were two 8s on the board, I had 9x 8x and was in a hand with some guy who raised pre-flop where everyone folded but me in the big blind. So I obviously won the hand, then literally as I tables the three of a kind I hear Rob go "ha I had an 8 as well! I should have called" to which Ali responds "I had an 8 too, there must be five 8s in the deck. Dealer check the deck." (Now this happens a lot with people joking, dealer never checks as we know it's a joke.) The dealer looks at Rob and Rob says how he promises he had an 8, which I believe him. But then Ali won't fucking let it go. Calling Rob a liar and how he had an 8, in a fairly jocular tone, though with Ali it's more of one of those jokes where he takes it too far. This argument goes on for a bit, to the point where the dealer goes through the cards to check. Which takes some time, that prompted me to turn to both and get pissy because we are taking time out for utter bullshit and it's pointless. Neither will listen at all, calling each other liars and shit like that. Obviously there were only four 8s in the deck. All of a sudden one says "you want to take this outside" and then they both stand up and Ali hits Rob then and there. And they grapple right at the table, before security rush in and stop them... The amount of times I have seen people go from joking to heated at a table is unbelievable. Egos man, they just ruin everything.

 

One from me. Now I have been called all sorts at a table, back when I was fat I would always get fat based insults from guys. The most annoying insults though are the ones under the breath to the person next to them, usually "how did he call there?" And crap like that. These days they don't bother me, but back when I used to get annoyed it would piss me off. I'm a bit of a pussy though and want people to like me so never really responded. This one time though I fucking lost it with a guy!

The whole tournament he had tried to portray himself as a great player with lots of experience, even though he wasn't a regular and didn't really play like an experienced player (you can usually tell by how people handle their chips and cards). He would have an opinion on everything and everyone! Even an old woman who is sweet and not great at poker, he would have no problem calling her out on her shit play. It was getting so annoying throughout the whole game. We were on the bubble and there was a serious short stack at the table. So I raise and the short stack under raises. Which baffled the dick when he got told he couldn't re-raise after, so he flats and so do I and we see a flop of Qx 9x 6x (now when you're on the bubble and it's a dead pot, unless you have the nuts you check it down. There's literally no reason to bet as you would rather the player go out.) I check, he checks. Turn comes a 7x. I have JJ and check as there's no point to bet. Pot is about 30k and I have about 300k behind. All of a sudden the dick goes all in for like 200k. So I figure he has the nuts as it makes no different how much to be because I'm ALWAYS folding in that spot. People shove there just for fun as they know this, no point betting in a dead pot on the bubble.

I say "ha, well guess 10 8 suited got there, can't believe you called pre-flop but whatever." And I folded the Jacks. The short stack laughs and says "well guess I'm out" and turns over pocket 4s.

That's when the dick says "nah, you win I was trying to bluff him off the pot" and turns over A3 suited (no flush draw). The river comes a 9x and the short stack trebles up.

I absolutely lose it with this guy. I call him shit, how is it possible to be so fucking dumb. For about a minute I'm just laying into this guy for being a moron, and the poker room manager tells me to go outside. The whole table is laughing because I never lose it and it was funny that the guy tries to bluff in the most stupid spot ever. I come back and every chance I get I make fun of the guy, every time he does something I try to piss him off. I call the clock on him if he takes longer than 5 seconds for an action, I just am so pissed off. We have a break and he tries to apologise but I have none of it. He then complains to the manager about me! And I have a one round penalty for my actions. Which in fairness I deserved as I was a prick, God I hated how I behaved then. It's one of the only times I ever got pissed off externally during poker. Usually I just kept it to myself, that was my breaking point though. The money wasn't the problem, it was the fact he thought himself as a player and made fun of the table for any mistake, yet did that.

 

I have more and different kind of stories, some involving pros which I will tell.

 

Til then remember to not get too annoyed by a bad beat or a persons play! In the long run a wrong play will be a losing one.

[Undefeated Steak]

I've enjoyed all your posts so far mate. I've been on here on my phone the last couple of days so I'll reply properly when I'm on the laptop!

[Undefeated Steak]

Ron, the story of that Irish dude is ace. Love it. Sorry for the double post, mods.

 

I haven't read that book, I will check it out at some point. Yeah thinking logically and keeping a level head really is the main thing about live poker. Anyone can get the basics, it's just understanding spots in play to take advantage of.

The sitting out hands is something every novice does (again please don't think I'm being condescending or anything, I don't want to come off as "poker wizard" who knows everything. I don't!), I used to do it myself. A stack is just a stack, a big stack allows you to make more moves but at the same time a small stack can put just as much pressure on opponents.

 

I'm beginning to work folding hands after winning a pot out of my game now, certainly if I've got a good hand. Before, I'd fold anything that wasn't an AA or similar.

 

Overthinking may well be a problem for you when you start really diving into poker theory. Don't get me wrong it's great and really helps with your game, it's just you will soon find many people have no clue. These are the people who call 3bets with gutshots with no other outs. If you remember that people can be idiots and don't understand why it's wrong to call, then you won't tilt. That I promise. It's their cards, they can do what they want, over the long run it should work out in your favour, as you will likely want them to make the wrong play. Even if it succeeds that one time.

 

I've tilted a couple of times and both times it's cost me my place in the tournament. I got to Step 4 on the WSOP tourney on 888 (never heard of the step thing before), got pissed off with a couple of bad hands I played, went all in on a pair of Kings without seeing the straight that was lining up for my opponent on the table and lost.

 

As for live tournaments, if you just get the Grosvenor live poker app that will have all the tournaments in their casinos around the country. If you're anywhere near Nottingham then they have the absolute best poker room in the country, with lots of tournaments. The ukipt is running all over this summer along with the gukpt (Grosvenor's festival) so there should be plenty of tournaments of all ranges. The Grosvenor tournaments range anywhere from £1 entry (unlimited re-buys £10) to £200 tournaments, with everything in between.

 

There's a local Grosvenor casino so I'm going to give a live tourney a go in May. Maybe look at travelling further afield and making a weekend of an event in the summer. The only live poker I've had experience with is playing with mates and after work when I used to work in a bar.

 

Also when I have time I will go online and play some tournaments with you or rail you for a bit, doesn't bother me at all when I'm online as I can have it on whenever.

 

If you would that'd be awesome. Give me a shout when you're up for it!

 

 (I understand my posts are probably going to be long and sometimes boring. I will try and write a few funny and ridiculous poker stories in the next few days to liven it up.)

 

They're great. I hate writing long posts on my phone but I'll reply as soon as I'm on the laptop.

 

The best value poker tour at the moment is the Grosvenor Casinos 25/25 Series. The buy-in is £200 + £20 reg fee,you get 25,000 chips and the prize-pool is guaranteed at £25,000. The beauty of this series there is bound to be a tournament to a casino close to you. I will be playing at the Stockton event in June and I am hoping to fair better than my attempt last year where I dropped out six hours into the event.  

 

A few years ago we had a regular UKFF sit n go tournament on Pokerstars for $5 a man. Would anyone be interested in starting this up again?

 

*How I rank the tournament series at the moment is WSOP - Champions League, WPT - Europa League EPT - Premier League, UKIPT - Championship, GUKPT - League One, 25/25 Series - Conference, Local Games - Northern Premier League  

 

I need to practice a fair bit more before I can throw £200 at a tourney but it's something I'll work towards!

 

If anyone else is up for doing a UKFF poker tourney then let us know.. I'd be game for it. Hopefully it'll be more successful than that UKFF community rap I tried starting. 

 

I'm still playing Sunday league! Haha.

 

 

[SpursRiot2012]

I'd be up for a UKFF poker tournament. I play when I get the urge on PokerStars and FullTilt and they have a low buy-in tournament at the casino at Stratford Westfield that I sometimes go to as well.

[Ian 86]

I haven't played for years but wouldn't mind a game.  Used to have a regular game going at work but I left that job 4 years ago and haven't played since.  Never really got into the on-line stuff, I don't think I've really got the attention span for it.

 

Jobber - Stratford game sounds interesting.  How much is 'low buy in'?

[SpursRiot2012]

£30-odd quid, can't remember off the top of my head. No more than £30. Depending on how many people are playing, the top prize is usually anywhere from £200-£300.

[Ian 86]

sounds interesting, might have a little look into it.

[Ron&Hermione]

Aspers, the casino in Westfields, is a really cool card room. I was there when they had Premier League Poker there a while back.

 

For London players The Vic is really the great place to play, has a wide variety of games. Though a lot of dicks go there, but they are balanced out by the fun businessmen who just want to have a laugh. Also they have pretty great cash games, with PLO and mix games all the time if that's your thing. I even played some Open Face there a couple times, so it's very accommodating.

 

The 25/25 is an ok tournament, it turns into a great tournament when it's at the Vic because it attracts fields of about 500 runners. So a prize pool of about 80,000 to 100,000. 1st being around £20,000. With the others it's only around £8,000, which obviously isn't bad. Plus they satellite the hell out of those tournaments, which means that the level of play isn't that much different to a regular tournament. You still get the 5x opens and stuff like that, then again it is a fun tournament to play. Like said, you have lots of room for play and you can re-enter which is always a bonus!

 

I would definitely recommend giving one a go for those who want to have a proper multi day tournament feel.

 

Yeah, the UKFF tournament would be fine with me.

 

There's usually a load of 25/25 in the next couple months around the country, plus similar type tournaments. I usually like to play a few live tournaments when there's value or if they seem fun, the EPT London event is usually a great place to play side events.