WWE Double Scum Mafia *GAME OVER*

[Retro Red]

Unfortunately, until Snake flips, I doubt we'll gather much information from what he's been doing. I do think bristep and Kenny are both overly suspicious right now. Although I'm not quite getting a strong scum vibe from bristep just yet (though it is early), and I've just finished a game with him on MS where he was scum (and I called him on it, ), so I'll be keeping an eye on him to see if I notice anything matches up. Kenny's still my main favourite for the lynch at this stage, and it's worth noting we're closing in on deadline, we don't want to be rushing things last minute again.

 

And bristep, it's because there's a difference between mentioning it (which is bad admittedly, and I admit I missed that, but you could both be scum) and pushing it as the main direction for people to think as we approach deadline, especially when you're directing it in a false way (there's no way O'Haire could be important, because Ron said all characters were meaningless, so zero reason to discuss that train of thought in the first place). There could be meaning behind it, but Teedy may need to "reveal" later on. If there's no meaning, then again, it doesn't matter, it's a red herring for scum to get caught out in.

 

In that MS game You called me scum because I voted for you while you were on your way to being lynched, I'd had barely a mention from you until that point

 

And Mike, unfortunately I've either pointed a hole in your theory or I've actually caught you out because this explanation of there being a 'difference between mentioning it and pushing it as the main direction for people to think as we approach deadline' is just absolute misrepresentation of my actual post. Look at what I said.

 

Teedy did you get your caps anagram wrong? Seems like you wanted to say "I AM ACTUALLY S O'HAIRE" but there's no H and an extra M.

 

Either way, that gave me a bit of fun working out what you were 'breadcrumbing'

 

To the actual game, Snake is not the day one lynch he just isn't. Whatever he is doing is polarising opinion, and unless he's playing a really cocky scum game then he isn't worth taking the day one risk on.

 

What I do see is Nicko's latest post with the Snake vote, it looks like weak reasoning to join a bandwagon that he'd previously been calling town (or 'fellow town' as it was, because that's never suspicious). Also his post and the one before it stinks of scum trying to work out what he's up to and offering the unvote as an incentive to clue them in.

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

 

I made reference to it with 2 lines, the 2nd line I said it was just fun. Line three starts "To the actual game". Should I repeat? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Need more emphasis? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Now, how can you accuse me of trying to focus the game towards misdirection when the post in question actually specifically says that my thoughts on the breadcrumb have no impact on my current thoughts as to gameplay!

 

I like Nicko's response to my Vote, and I don't like your reaction to my FOS. So with that in mind,

 

UNVOTE VOTE MIKE CASTLE

[Retro Red]

Why are we discussing this again? Characters are meaningless as stated by Ron right at the beginning. The letters are jumbled and meaningless at this stage. If it's a crumb that needs working out, that means that everyone should shut up about it and, if it IS indeed a crumb, it's something that Teedy will return to later when/if he roleclaims (That's the point of a crumb, it's not for people to work out and thus have an announced role).

 

So Massive FOS to everyone trying to work it out

 

In fact, such a huge FOS that I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it. Town don't need to work out the crumbs, I've said that already, so why are you even attempting to? If you want to work it out in private then have a ball, but trying to gather everyone else to help you out is exceptionally anti-town.

 

FOS bristep123

 

You maybe onto something with that, but your vehemence worries me. You've gone in as hard as El Nicko has, but on the opposite side of the coin. If you don't believe Snake is scum what's your take on the people that are biting on him? Are they all doing so because of or in spite of his play?

 

Your last post prior was joining in with me having fun with the anagrams, then after Mike throws his hissy fit you dive behind him and point the FOS at me. Interesting play...very interesting.

 

Even though before were were playing Scumdown the consensus was that anything that came out of Snake's mouth was bollocks, you and Brownie are both directly asking if it's bollocks. Mike is certain that it's bollocks but I was asking him if he thinks the people who are voting Snake believe it's not bollocks or that he shouldn't be talking bollocks in the first place.

 

WIFOM. That tastes like bollocks.

 

Actually it's Teedy Kay who we are talking about, not Snake. You've got yourself mixed up. If you aren't scum then you might want to pay attention to what you're posting about. Scum get caught out when they don't pay attention to what they are posting about.

[Ron Simmons]

Afternoon Vote Count

 

* Snake (4) (Nexus, Kenny McBride, Dan Williams, El Nicko Loco)

* Kenny McBride (2) (Snake Plissken, Mike Castle)

* Teedy Kay (2) (Chris Stone, Dazz)

* Nexus (1) (tom)

* Mike Castle (1) (Bristep123)

 

Not voting: brownie, Carbomb, unfitfinlay, spotlightmagnet1, seph, Lion of the Midlands, Chris Stone, Teedy Kay

 

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

[seph]

Why are we discussing this again? Characters are meaningless as stated by Ron right at the beginning. The letters are jumbled and meaningless at this stage. If it's a crumb that needs working out, that means that everyone should shut up about it and, if it IS indeed a crumb, it's something that Teedy will return to later when/if he roleclaims (That's the point of a crumb, it's not for people to work out and thus have an announced role).

 

So Massive FOS to everyone trying to work it out

 

In fact, such a huge FOS that I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it. Town don't need to work out the crumbs, I've said that already, so why are you even attempting to? If you want to work it out in private then have a ball, but trying to gather everyone else to help you out is exceptionally anti-town.

 

FOS bristep123

 

You maybe onto something with that, but your vehemence worries me. You've gone in as hard as El Nicko has, but on the opposite side of the coin. If you don't believe Snake is scum what's your take on the people that are biting on him? Are they all doing so because of or in spite of his play?

 

Your last post prior was joining in with me having fun with the anagrams, then after Mike throws his hissy fit you dive behind him and point the FOS at me. Interesting play...very interesting.

 

Even though before were were playing Scumdown the consensus was that anything that came out of Snake's mouth was bollocks, you and Brownie are both directly asking if it's bollocks. Mike is certain that it's bollocks but I was asking him if he thinks the people who are voting Snake believe it's not bollocks or that he shouldn't be talking bollocks in the first place.

 

WIFOM. That tastes like bollocks.

 

Actually it's Teedy Kay who we are talking about, not Snake. You've got yourself mixed up. If you aren't scum then you might want to pay attention to what you're posting about. Scum get caught out when they don't pay attention to what they are posting about.

 

Fair enough. But both Snake and Teedy are doing nothing for the Town's game yet people are jumping on the former instead of the latter and making much more noise about it.

[Chris_Stone]

When you have that many letters sticking out, there's multiple possibilities of what it could mean - there's always the chance some are fluff letters, there's a chance it could mean multiple things and of course, the chance he had something in mind that's complete bullshit. With the way Teedy has played i'm opting for the latter. It was so incredibly obvious had no one mentioned it that in itself would be bizzare, this isn't something he's trying to subtly hint with, it's bait pure and simple.

Do i think it's anti-town to work something so blatent out? Absolutely not, it's meaningless and we ought to view it in such a way, take it in context with the rest of his game.

[seph]

When you have that many letters sticking out, there's multiple possibilities of what it could mean - there's always the chance some are fluff letters, there's a chance it could mean multiple things and of course, the chance he had something in mind that's complete bullshit. With the way Teedy has played i'm opting for the latter. It was so incredibly obvious had no one mentioned it that in itself would be bizzare, this isn't something he's trying to subtly hint with, it's bait pure and simple.

Do i think it's anti-town to work something so blatent out? Absolutely not, it's meaningless and we ought to view it in such a way, take it in context with the rest of his game.

 

So if it's meaningless, why are you still voting him?

[Chris_Stone]

The thing with Teedy that concerns me is that he's seemingly jumped on Snake's play style after seeing the reactions to Snake, he did this after a point or two were raised toward him. Is it a way he can easily avoid votes based on the 'its too blatent' and 'it means nothing', it's generated discussion on Snake but lets face it, we know unless Snake comes out and says 'Im scum' he's not going to have the rope around his neck at the end of this day. it seems like a tactic where he can ride snakes wave and not be targetted.

 

When you have that many letters sticking out, there's multiple possibilities of what it could mean - there's always the chance some are fluff letters, there's a chance it could mean multiple things and of course, the chance he had something in mind that's complete bullshit. With the way Teedy has played i'm opting for the latter. It was so incredibly obvious had no one mentioned it that in itself would be bizzare, this isn't something he's trying to subtly hint with, it's bait pure and simple.

Do i think it's anti-town to work something so blatent out? Absolutely not, it's meaningless and we ought to view it in such a way, take it in context with the rest of his game.

 

So if it's meaningless, why are you still voting him?

 

His Letters are meaningless, I didn't say that everything about his play is. i had my vote on him before his anogram.

[Mike Castle]

Teedy did you get your caps anagram wrong? Seems like you wanted to say "I AM ACTUALLY S O'HAIRE" but there's no H and an extra M.

 

Either way, that gave me a bit of fun working out what you were 'breadcrumbing'

 

To the actual game, Snake is not the day one lynch he just isn't. Whatever he is doing is polarising opinion, and unless he's playing a really cocky scum game then he isn't worth taking the day one risk on.

 

What I do see is Nicko's latest post with the Snake vote, it looks like weak reasoning to join a bandwagon that he'd previously been calling town (or 'fellow town' as it was, because that's never suspicious). Also his post and the one before it stinks of scum trying to work out what he's up to and offering the unvote as an incentive to clue them in.

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

 

I made reference to it with 2 lines, the 2nd line I said it was just fun. Line three starts "To the actual game". Should I repeat? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Need more emphasis? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Now, how can you accuse me of trying to focus the game towards misdirection when the post in question actually specifically says that my thoughts on the breadcrumb have no impact on my current thoughts as to gameplay!

 

I like Nicko's response to my Vote, and I don't like your reaction to my FOS. So with that in mind,

 

UNVOTE VOTE MIKE CASTLE

Two things:

1 - You may have said it "provided some fun" but yet you were working it out publicly, and trying to get others to discuss it as well, as evidenced by this post:

At least it's providing some fun.

Yes, but is it providing a scum tell?

 

It's too WIFOMy to work out at this stage IMO. What's your thoughts on it?

 

2 - My "reaction" to your FOS is non-existant. My reaction was to your post. The FOS was worthless. but top marks on attempting to go with the OMGUS stuff, and simultaneously get the actual first vote in there to make a returning vote appear to be OMGUS.

 

Sorry bristep, you're beginning to fumble at this stage, and much as I feel Kenny is still a good lynch for the day...

 

unvote;

vote: bristep123

 

We have our scum people.

[seph]

The thing with Teedy that concerns me is that he's seemingly jumped on Snake's play style after seeing the reactions to Snake, he did this after a point or two were raised toward him. Is it a way he can easily avoid votes based on the 'its too blatent' and 'it means nothing', it's generated discussion on Snake but lets face it, we know unless Snake comes out and says 'Im scum' he's not going to have the rope around his neck at the end of this day. it seems like a tactic where he can ride snakes wave and not be targetted.

 

So as neither have voted or publicly suspected each other thus far a rebuke from Snake will look highly suspicious unless it happens today - either he'd vote Teedy as a copycat or bus him to avoid suspicion.

[Chris_Stone]

The thing with Teedy that concerns me is that he's seemingly jumped on Snake's play style after seeing the reactions to Snake, he did this after a point or two were raised toward him. Is it a way he can easily avoid votes based on the 'its too blatent' and 'it means nothing', it's generated discussion on Snake but lets face it, we know unless Snake comes out and says 'Im scum' he's not going to have the rope around his neck at the end of this day. it seems like a tactic where he can ride snakes wave and not be targetted.

 

So as neither have voted or publicly suspected each other thus far a rebuke from Snake will look highly suspicious unless it happens today - either he'd vote Teedy as a copycat or bus him to avoid suspicion.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean they're on the same scum team, it doesn't necessarily mean Snake is scum at all, even if Teedy is. It could be an oppertunistic thing 'I've see the way people have reacted to Snake, seems like i can do this and coast through'. I don't find snake's play to be scummy if i'm honest with you, that's not to say i feel he's played pro-town either.

[Retro Red]

Teedy did you get your caps anagram wrong? Seems like you wanted to say "I AM ACTUALLY S O'HAIRE" but there's no H and an extra M.

 

Either way, that gave me a bit of fun working out what you were 'breadcrumbing'

 

To the actual game, Snake is not the day one lynch he just isn't. Whatever he is doing is polarising opinion, and unless he's playing a really cocky scum game then he isn't worth taking the day one risk on.

 

What I do see is Nicko's latest post with the Snake vote, it looks like weak reasoning to join a bandwagon that he'd previously been calling town (or 'fellow town' as it was, because that's never suspicious). Also his post and the one before it stinks of scum trying to work out what he's up to and offering the unvote as an incentive to clue them in.

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

 

I made reference to it with 2 lines, the 2nd line I said it was just fun. Line three starts "To the actual game". Should I repeat? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Need more emphasis? TO THE ACTUAL GAME. Now, how can you accuse me of trying to focus the game towards misdirection when the post in question actually specifically says that my thoughts on the breadcrumb have no impact on my current thoughts as to gameplay!

 

I like Nicko's response to my Vote, and I don't like your reaction to my FOS. So with that in mind,

 

UNVOTE VOTE MIKE CASTLE

Two things:

1 - You may have said it "provided some fun" but yet you were working it out publicly, and trying to get others to discuss it as well, as evidenced by this post:

At least it's providing some fun.

Yes, but is it providing a scum tell?

 

It's too WIFOMy to work out at this stage IMO. What's your thoughts on it?

 

2 - My "reaction" to your FOS is non-existant. My reaction was to your post. The FOS was worthless. but top marks on attempting to go with the OMGUS stuff, and simultaneously get the actual first vote in there to make a returning vote appear to be OMGUS.

 

Sorry bristep, you're beginning to fumble at this stage, and much as I feel Kenny is still a good lynch for the day...

 

unvote;

vote: bristep123

 

We have our scum people.

 

Firstly that's laughable. You're accusing me of trying to get people to discuss something, then the post you quote to 'prove' it is brownie asking ME to discuss it, and me asking him his opinion in return. Bravo Mike, bravo.

 

Secondly, and more importantly you're again just misrepping my post. You are accusing me of trying to drive people into discussing whether there's any relevancy to Teedy saying that he was Sean O'Haire which just isn't true. I said that the whole anagram thing was fun. I also speculated that was a backwards message rather than an anagram in a later which made no reference to his character name. I also said that the whole anagram thing was WIFOMy and hard to derive a read from on it's own not the fact that he said he was Sean O'Haire. You're twisting it to fit your argument, and that's fumbling more than anything I'm saying.

 

I'll make this very clear, so that there's no misunderstanding. I summised that he put an anagram in his post which said "I AM ACTUALLY S.O'HAIRE". I didn't make any mention of what that meant, or could mean, nor did I ask for any discussion of it's relevance. That is clearly visible from my posts, you're taking liberties and twisting/misrepping it to fit a bogus argument.

 

And I really really love the little addendum from you "You are OMGUSing, and only voted for me first so that I would like I was OMGUSing!"

 

These are quotes from your last 3 posts

 

Post 1 : "I'm tempted to lynch bristep"

 

Post 2 : "I'm not quite getting a strong scum vibe from bristep just yet"

 

Post 3 : "Sorry bristep, you're beginning to fumble at this stage, and much as I feel Kenny is still a good lynch for the day... VOTE bristep123"

 

Sorry but all that's happened during the timeline of these 3 posts is that I've stated that I saw scummy behaviour from your reaction to the Teedy discussion, voted for you then rebuked your reasoning. If you want to accuse me of OMGUS then I'd check your own colour first Mr Pot.

 

From this vantage point (You know, over here on town hill) you seem to be clawing at things now to try and keep your initial point on track.

 

And one final thing Mike, and forgive the WIFOM here but it's worth saying I think. You are the most reactionary player in this game. You have a proven track record of turning on people who vote/accuse you, and insulting people's intelligence if they don't play exactly the way you think they should. That's not speculation, that's solid fact and anyone who reads earlier games can see this. Knowing all that, knowing how the minute I voted for you in that MS game which just finished you rounded and accused me of being scum (and in that game I was, but you didn't have me overly pegged as such until that point), do you honestly think that as scum I would make such a strong accusation towards you?

[Mike Castle]

The brownie thing was a response to what you were saying. It looked very much like he was trying to ask if you actually thought there was any reason to you going on about it prior to that point... answer? No, there was no point in you going on about it, and it only lead to distracting players.

 

Your reply to brownie was trying to get him to talk further about something you didn't feel was anything worth looking into. How is that town motivated outside of keeping him away from you?

 

Regarding my posts, to begin with I wasn't hugely suspecting you, your reactions after me pointing out that you were anti-town in which you said "Chris Stone did it too, look at him not me!" among other things, However I'll also point out that the "I'm tempted to lynch bristep" is a blatant misquote, because you have deliberately missed out the rest of it that changes the ENTIRE way it sounds, so here's the full quote:

Why are we discussing this again? Characters are meaningless as stated by Ron right at the beginning. The letters are jumbled and meaningless at this stage. If it's a crumb that needs working out, that means that everyone should shut up about it and, if it IS indeed a crumb, it's something that Teedy will return to later when/if he roleclaims (That's the point of a crumb, it's not for people to work out and thus have an announced role).

 

So Massive FOS to everyone trying to work it out

 

In fact, such a huge FOS that I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it. Town don't need to work out the crumbs, I've said that already, so why are you even attempting to? If you want to work it out in private then have a ball, but trying to gather everyone else to help you out is exceptionally anti-town.

So it wasn't even a correct quote.

 

And the last paragraph is pure WIFOM and I wont even entertain it. Anytime a player says "Do you think I would do this as scum?" It instantly becomes a meaningless quote. Because if you say you wouldn't do it as scum, and then do it... how is anyone to know that's not you as scum knowing that you wouldn't normally do it as scum, and thus attempting to use it as a town tell? It's only a town tell if everyone else knows it as fact and it's brought up by others, not you. (And even then, if it's brought up by someone who later flips scum, it's just as worthless too, so getting buddies to do it doesn't help either).

 

Or in short. Yes, you WOULD do it as scum, because you know you wouldn't normally do it as scum. Thus you would self-meta to do it.

[Retro Red]

The brownie thing was a response to what you were saying. It looked very much like he was trying to ask if you actually thought there was any reason to you going on about it prior to that point... answer? No, there was no point in you going on about it, and it only lead to distracting players.

 

Your reply to brownie was trying to get him to talk further about something you didn't feel was anything worth looking into. How is that town motivated outside of keeping him away from you?

 

Regarding my posts, to begin with I wasn't hugely suspecting you, your reactions after me pointing out that you were anti-town in which you said "Chris Stone did it too, look at him not me!" among other things, However I'll also point out that the "I'm tempted to lynch bristep" is a blatant misquote, because you have deliberately missed out the rest of it that changes the ENTIRE way it sounds, so here's the full quote:

Why are we discussing this again? Characters are meaningless as stated by Ron right at the beginning. The letters are jumbled and meaningless at this stage. If it's a crumb that needs working out, that means that everyone should shut up about it and, if it IS indeed a crumb, it's something that Teedy will return to later when/if he roleclaims (That's the point of a crumb, it's not for people to work out and thus have an announced role).

 

So Massive FOS to everyone trying to work it out

 

In fact, such a huge FOS that I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it. Town don't need to work out the crumbs, I've said that already, so why are you even attempting to? If you want to work it out in private then have a ball, but trying to gather everyone else to help you out is exceptionally anti-town.

So it wasn't even a correct quote.

 

And the last paragraph is pure WIFOM and I wont even entertain it. Anytime a player says "Do you think I would do this as scum?" It instantly becomes a meaningless quote. Because if you say you wouldn't do it as scum, and then do it... how is anyone to know that's not you as scum knowing that you wouldn't normally do it as scum, and thus attempting to use it as a town tell? It's only a town tell if everyone else knows it as fact and it's brought up by others, not you. (And even then, if it's brought up by someone who later flips scum, it's just as worthless too, so getting buddies to do it doesn't help either).

 

Or in short. Yes, you WOULD do it as scum, because you know you wouldn't normally do it as scum. Thus you would self-meta to do it.

 

Writing a paragraph about something you said you wouldn't entertain is lulz. This is now just a back and forth Mike, I've said all I need to in regards to your behaviour and posts. Let the rest of the game decide which one of us is worth lynching, if either, today (P.S It's Mike).

[Mike Castle]

I didn't entertain the paragraph, I explained why it doesn't deserve to be entertained. There's a difference.

[tom]

you have deliberately missed out the rest of it that changes the ENTIRE way it sounds, so here's the full quote:

Why are we discussing this again? Characters are meaningless as stated by Ron right at the beginning. The letters are jumbled and meaningless at this stage. If it's a crumb that needs working out, that means that everyone should shut up about it and, if it IS indeed a crumb, it's something that Teedy will return to later when/if he roleclaims (That's the point of a crumb, it's not for people to work out and thus have an announced role).

 

So Massive FOS to everyone trying to work it out

 

In fact, such a huge FOS that I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it. Town don't need to work out the crumbs, I've said that already, so why are you even attempting to? If you want to work it out in private then have a ball, but trying to gather everyone else to help you out is exceptionally anti-town.

So it wasn't even a correct quote.

 

Although the use of words is different, surely "I'm tempted to vote for bristep" is pretty similar in meaning to "I'm almost considering lynching bristep off the back of it" though? The main question I have is, seems as you fingered everyone for trying to figure it out, why did you single out bristep as a target of a vote for it whereas a finger was enough for everyone else?

 

I'm a little torn on Mike as he does appear to offer a lot of detailed information in his posts in his position of undisputed Mafia veteran and expert; now on one hand this can be helpful and useful but on the other hand, I worry that he is using his knowledge and expertise in order to try and manipulate the game, and this would be a great tool if he is on the scum side, and that he can easily hide behind "well I'm just trying to help"

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm concerned that this whole thing could kind of read like a case of Mike not liking people trying to solve the riddle and that he's trying to stop that in order to ensure that everyone plays the game in the way in which he wants.

 

With regards to the TDK stuff, I just view it as TDK messing around because he doesn't really want to be part of this game any more thus he's switched off a bit and just wants to have some random fun. Obviously as such I think it would be silly to focus entirely on possible meanings behind what appears to just be random fun and games

 

At the risk of getting a full frontal assault from Sir Mike :

 

Also Mike, you've not been posting a lot, you been busy?

Kinda. As I said earlier, I'm trying not to spam the thread with a mass of pointless back and forth that's not needed and only serves to make it almost impossible to re-read later

How's that going?

 

I didn't entertain the paragraph, I explained why it doesn't deserve to be entertained. There's a difference.

Um you did even actually answer it by the end of the post too....

 

 

And one final thing Mike, and forgive the WIFOM here but it's worth saying I think. You are the most reactionary player in this game. You have a proven track record of turning on people who vote/accuse you, and insulting people's intelligence if they don't play exactly the way you think they should. That's not speculation, that's solid fact and anyone who reads earlier games can see this. Knowing all that, knowing how the minute I voted for you in that MS game which just finished you rounded and accused me of being scum (and in that game I was, but you didn't have me overly pegged as such until that point), do you honestly think that as scum I would make such a strong accusation towards you?

He asked if he was scum would he really bother accusing you so strongly?

 

And the last paragraph is pure WIFOM and I wont even entertain it. Anytime a player says "Do you think I would do this as scum?" It instantly becomes a meaningless quote. Because if you say you wouldn't do it as scum, and then do it... how is anyone to know that's not you as scum knowing that you wouldn't normally do it as scum, and thus attempting to use it as a town tell? It's only a town tell if everyone else knows it as fact and it's brought up by others, not you. (And even then, if it's brought up by someone who later flips scum, it's just as worthless too, so getting buddies to do it doesn't help either).

 

Or in short. Yes, you WOULD do it as scum, because you know you wouldn't normally do it as scum. Thus you would self-meta to do it.

And you say that yes he would do it as scum in your last two sentences

 

I do realise I've got a wall-of-text in my future now