Snake's WWE Invasion 'Royal Mafia Rumble'

[Chris B]

Right, I'm travelling to Ireland tomorrow, so my access will be sporadic for the next 24 hours. Family Guy isn't my preferred choice, but Mike's put himself in a position where anyone looking to be the final vote is in a catch-22 - if they believe him, they won't lynch him, and if they don't believe him, they're potentially killing town. Dan and Ron both seem to be slipping through the cracks somehow, which is surprising me. The Bristep/Swift thing is interesting as well, but it feels almost unusually aggressive from Swift. Nonetheless, I don't want to be part of the reason for a no-lynch, and I think Family Guy is now in the lead.

 

That said, Family Guy's tunnelling on Ron HAS been excessive, and I've not understood it. Part of my issue with Ron and Mike has been that I'm not sure who to believe. Family Guy's flip would probably be a useful thing to find out, so let's see how that one goes.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Family Guy PMSL

[swiftstrike]

Right, I'm travelling to Ireland tomorrow, so my access will be sporadic for the next 24 hours. Family Guy isn't my preferred choice, but Mike's put himself in a position where anyone looking to be the final vote is in a catch-22 - if they believe him, they won't lynch him, and if they don't believe him, they're potentially killing town. Dan and Ron both seem to be slipping through the cracks somehow, which is surprising me. The Bristep/Swift thing is interesting as well, but it feels almost unusually aggressive from Swift. Nonetheless, I don't want to be part of the reason for a no-lynch, and I think Family Guy is now in the lead.

 

That said, Family Guy's tunnelling on Ron HAS been excessive, and I've not understood it. Part of my issue with Ron and Mike has been that I'm not sure who to believe. Family Guy's flip would probably be a useful thing to find out, so let's see how that one goes.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Family Guy PMSL

Chris who exactly is your preferred choice? As you seem to be voting for whoever is most popular rather than actually someone you find scummy this is shown by this post also.

 

http://ukff.com/index.php?act=findpost&amp...amp;pid=2267105

For the record, I'd go for Bristep, Corey or Dan at this point. I don't want to jump between, but I will go for whichever is the more popular option.

[Chris B]

Right, I'm travelling to Ireland tomorrow, so my access will be sporadic for the next 24 hours. Family Guy isn't my preferred choice, but Mike's put himself in a position where anyone looking to be the final vote is in a catch-22 - if they believe him, they won't lynch him, and if they don't believe him, they're potentially killing town. Dan and Ron both seem to be slipping through the cracks somehow, which is surprising me. The Bristep/Swift thing is interesting as well, but it feels almost unusually aggressive from Swift. Nonetheless, I don't want to be part of the reason for a no-lynch, and I think Family Guy is now in the lead.

 

That said, Family Guy's tunnelling on Ron HAS been excessive, and I've not understood it. Part of my issue with Ron and Mike has been that I'm not sure who to believe. Family Guy's flip would probably be a useful thing to find out, so let's see how that one goes.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Family Guy PMSL

Chris who exactly is your preferred choice? As you seem to be voting for whoever is most popular rather than actually someone you find scummy this is shown by this post also.

 

Mike with Ron hammering. I've made that clear a couple of times. I'm not as convinced by Mike as he seems to think that I should be, but Ron's reaction is one I've found really unusual. I reckon one of them is lying, but I don't know which. I'm comfortable with seeing a town player take a dive to take out a scum player.

 

 

http://ukff.com/index.php?act=findpost&amp...amp;pid=2267105

For the record, I'd go for Bristep, Corey or Dan at this point. I don't want to jump between, but I will go for whichever is the more popular option.

 

 

At that point, I thought Mike had made a pretty strong case on Bristep, and I liked his case on Corey as well. Dan's been a suspect throughout because of the way he's been playing. Immediately after that, Bristep showed how badly constructed Mike's case actually was, and Mike's been a major suspect for me since. Since I thought all three cases were solid at that point, I was happy to back all three.

 

At the moment, I don't want to be diverting a lynch with keeping a vote on my preference. Family Guy isn't my preference, but he's a strong back-up for me, since it'll help me decide what's happening with Mike/Ron. We seem to be having some difficulty getting agreement on lynches in this game. That's good in some respects, since it's keeping more people in suspicion than in other games. However, it's bad because it's too easy for scum to push for a no-lynch.

 

I'd rather see us get information and a lynch than I would lose through paralysis. As a result, unless I have a strong feeling about someone not being scum, I'll back the town favourite as we get closer to lynching time.

[Dan Williams]

Chris what more will it take for you to believe I am town? I tried to save one of the towns most powerful players while suggesting a lynch on the scums most powerful player. How can I do anymore for the town so far? As far as the lynch goes if its going to be FGPMSL I'm happy to go with that but I will give him a few hours to post a defence first, if he has nothing then I will vote him tonite or tomorrow if I fall asleep

[Mike Castle]

Chris what more will it take for you to believe I am town? I tried to save one of the towns most powerful players while suggesting a lynch on the scums most powerful player. How can I do anymore for the town so far? As far as the lynch goes if its going to be FGPMSL I'm happy to go with that but I will give him a few hours to post a defence first, if he has nothing then I will vote him tonite or tomorrow if I fall asleep

And you know this how? Hmmm.

 

Also, as said previously, trying to "save" a player doesn't give you any town points, it doesn't give you scum points necessarily either, but any scum could try and appear to be trying to stop a lynch on someone they know is town when it's obvious the lynch is going to go that way, then say "I tried to stop the lynch, therefore I'm town".

 

But it's that "scums most powerful player" line. The only people who would know that are scum. Yes, Rolecop is a powerful role, but without seeing the scum set-up it's impossible to say whether it's the most powerful role/player they have. So to say that is very suspect, and on the level of Family Guy's slip.

[Dan Williams]

Well its pretty obvious unless they have a player who can kill 5 guys at once that the Rolecop is one of there most powerful roles. Don't try and twist what i say mike it doesn't suit you.

[Mike Castle]

How is that twisting it? You outright stated that Nexus was scum's most powerful player. Not "likely" most powerful player. When you consider that a Godfather is very powerful for scum (until the cop's offed), as would be other roles that could be out there like un-nightkillable roles, or a scum roleblocker/jailkeeper. Yes, a Rolecop is powerful, but it isn't automatically the most powerful unless you know the other roles, it also depends on your style (I personally hate playing as cop, despite the fact it's on obviously overpowered role in general).

 

So yeah, it still stands our like a sore thumb, and the fact you instantly got defensive of it (and no defensiveness isn't a tell, but when you had no reason to get defensive to the point you're accusing me of twisting your words, it does become one) means I'm more inclined to believe you might be scum. My only issue with that, is that my other reads for scum currently point to Family Guy, swift, and of course the major two, brownie and Corey.

 

incidentally... Mod, are you going to prod Corey?

[Dan Williams]

So because I defended myself when you accused me of being scum that makes me scum. If I was scum do you think I would even be having this conversation anyway? I would be triple checking every post for slips. I simply said that he was the most powerful player as to be fair he had been referred to several times and you are trying to twist it to make me look scummy for saying that. If the time comes for it and there isn't anyone else to do it I will hammer mike, perhaps then you will realise that I am town. I think the scum have at least 2 active player and 1 coaster I just can't tell who they are yet. It could be any of FGPMSL, Mike, Swift, Brownie or Corey in my eyes.

[Mike Castle]

Dan, you're using WIFOM arguments constantly this game.

 

"Why would I, as scum, help lynch the most powerful scum player"

 

"I tried to stop the lynch of a town player"

 

"Why would I be having this conversation?"

 

None of that counts for anything at this point, because it's ALL WIFOM. If you can't understand why scum would do that (hint: to appear town) then I don't know what else to say.

 

As far as "I would be triple checking every post for slips", that again, is meaningless.. so what you're saying is we should disregard anything you say that can be shown as a slip because "If I was scum I wouldn't be making a slip that makes out I was scum"?

 

Seriously? Despite that being the evidence I've hit Family Guy for... despite the fact I made a killer slip (worse than Family Guy's and yours) in a game on Mafia Scum that essentially wound up being an admission of me being scum?

 

Sorry, but the reason your sudden defense of it is scummy is because you could have given an actual response, instead what you did was try and trash what I was saying by branding it as "twisting" what you were saying, when it's quite clearly not the case. Had you given a legitimate response to it (see bristep's response to my case on him) I'd have possibly written it off as miswording, had you explained that. But you didn't, instead you tried to belittle my point (despite the fact it's a legitimate point) and then make out that I was merely twisting your words.

 

That, right there, is scummy.

[Dan Williams]

But mike its not a legitimate point is it, it was an attempt to brand me as scum just admit it. I think some people forget this is a game and take it way too seriously at times. Anyway if anyone would like me to prove my townness ( If that is even a word) Either this day phase or the next put Mike to L-1 ( If you believe his claim) and I will hammer him if he's telling the truth then I'm sorry I screwed the town out of 2 players if he's lying then we will find out quite easily.

[Retro Red]

Dan, you're using WIFOM arguments constantly this game.

 

"Why would I, as scum, help lynch the most powerful scum player"

 

"I tried to stop the lynch of a town player"

 

"Why would I be having this conversation?"

 

None of that counts for anything at this point, because it's ALL WIFOM. If you can't understand why scum would do that (hint: to appear town) then I don't know what else to say.

 

As far as "I would be triple checking every post for slips", that again, is meaningless.. so what you're saying is we should disregard anything you say that can be shown as a slip because "If I was scum I wouldn't be making a slip that makes out I was scum"?

 

Seriously? Despite that being the evidence I've hit Family Guy for... despite the fact I made a killer slip (worse than Family Guy's and yours) in a game on Mafia Scum that essentially wound up being an admission of me being scum?

 

Sorry, but the reason your sudden defense of it is scummy is because you could have given an actual response, instead what you did was try and trash what I was saying by branding it as "twisting" what you were saying, when it's quite clearly not the case. Had you given a legitimate response to it (see bristep's response to my case on him) I'd have possibly written it off as miswording, had you explained that. But you didn't, instead you tried to belittle my point (despite the fact it's a legitimate point) and then make out that I was merely twisting your words.

 

That, right there, is scummy.

 

It's scummy or bad play, I think it's the latter but I don't know what his usual gameplay is in past games to be able to comment 100%. I still think that the Nexus flipping scum rolecop points towards Dan being town and he is *really* keen to try and put his head in the noose.

 

Also if he is scum, wouldn't one of his cohorts have tried to rein him in by now? This is 3 day phases in a row now that he's been putting himself in the firing line.

[Dan Williams]

Bristep are you reading the game? Defending myself is bad play, I'm not quite sure what you want me to do when accused of being scum? Just ignore it and hope it goes away because that isn't scummy is it.

[Mike Castle]

It wasn't even defending yourself though Dan. It was just attacking me for calling you on something. That's not defending, that's not responding to a point made against you, it's the equivilant of throwing your toys out of the pram because someone caught something you said.

 

A defense would be responding to the points in a cool and calm manner.

 

What you did was neither cool, nor calm. Instead it was just trying to claim my statement was worthless, without showing why. Thus, not a defence.

 

Incidentally. If I'm to be lynched, and brownie's around. HE is the hammer. Not you Dan. I'm much more convinced of brownie's scumminess than yours. Though I am getting more convinced of it the more you post attempting to discredit points made on you without actively responding to the actual point, and instead using WIFOM arguments as you have done all game.

 

In fact, if you want people to believe you're town, stop using ANY defence of "I tried to save a town player" because I've seen you use it a fair few times now, and not once does it gain you town credibility... in fact, quite the opposite, the more you say it, the more I'm convinced you're scum because you're trying to ride on it.

[Retro Red]

It's not a case of defending yourself, again that's subverting Mikes (and by association my own) point to make it seem less valid.

 

It is the manner in which you defend yourself that is the bad play, not the act of defending.

 

In this latest issue with Mike you have failed to provide any evidence of substance other than the WIFOM arguments (If I was scum I surely wouldn't do this would I?!) and just general refusal to discuss anything Mike has raised. ("Your point isn't legitimate, you were just trying to make me look scummy!" (paraphrasing)) You then tried to use deflection by implying that it's just a game and we shouldn't take it seriously (When really we should because otherwise is there any point in playing?). Then, you've tried to appear noble/defeatist by offering to sacrifice yourself (which is a recurring theme with you although in day one it was a petulant vote for yourself).

 

Your response to me is to accuse me of not reading the game. Again, it's attacking the person who dares to say anything about you, without discussing the point.

 

Also, if Mike is the bomb and you are town then by hammering him we would lose 3 town since there would be the NK as well. Or was that a slip, 2 town losses plus yourself?

 

The only thing right now that stops me from believing you to be scum is the rolecop flip from last phase.

 

Unless there is some revelation to come, and you are masterminding some big scum plan then I really don't think you've played well at all in this game.

[Ron Simmons]

I don't think Dan's scum in spite of that comment. I just think he's worded things badly at times, or overreacted in others. Family Guy is the best lynch in every respect, he's played scummy, seemingly made slips then refused to address them and also taken quotes out of context to defend himself. If he's not scum he's played a rather unusual game. Family Guy also has voting patterns we can look at, and has built slight relationships player wise I reckon. So if he is scum there's a mountain of evidence to look at.