Paid Members Dearly Devoted Dexter Posted February 6, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 6, 2009 Ok, roughly chronological  As regards the omissions, I based the list on my own personal fave matches. If I'd done it in terms of significance, then naturally the 1 hr iron man match would be there, as would Joe vs Zebra. The again, if significance is a criteria then Cabana vs Punk has to be on there also  Daniels vs Williams - good spot, I meant to include it and forgot.  I really enjoyed Gibson vs Cabana. I'm not a great Gibson fan, but that was a great match. Didn't it go about 30 minutes or something? I stand by Barker vs Ki as well, although on reflection maybe Joe vs Zebra should be in there too.  I loved Shelley and Jacobs stuff in IWA, but never thought they did what they were capable of in the ROH matches. Part of the problem was the way they were booked - there was no Shelley/ Jacobs "program" so to speak, it was a case that everytime a show came up where both were at a loose end, ROH booked a Shelley/ Jacobs match.  Joe vs Lethal - yeah, maybe. Was there a single bad match on the Manhatten Mayhem card? Decent backstory to that match too, so on reflection I guess it should go in there.  The Night of the Butcher match was good, but I thought the Epic Encounter one was better, hence the former's ommision. Incidentally ROH HAVE to book the Dragon vs London rematch before their match at the Sloan show. I know you're going to it, and I might be too, but I just think the rematch - the first one anyway - should take place in ROH.  Spanky/ Gibson - its arguable, but as I said, I'm not a great James Gibson fan. Those awful promos - "I'm Jame Geebson, and the ring a honor taahtle mean more to may than any belt in wrestling..." etc.  Steel Cage Warfare - I just think concept's lame - War Games in one ring? It doesn't really work.  Claudio vs Danielson at Northern Navigation - agreed, that should have been in there.  The two Shiozaki matches you mention I thought were good, but not great to be honest.  And the Domination tag...I can't remember much about it off the top of head, but anything with Quack in is usually good, so I'll add it in.  I've added those five to the original list and also tweaked the chronology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 You should watch the Domination tag again, definitely.  In the mean time, last night's results from Coral Springs, Florida...  Preshow 1) Alex Payne defeats Wes Eskimo with a rana.  2) The British Lions defeat The Heartbreak Express with a clothesline/sunset flip combo.   Main Show  1) Brad Attitude defeats Sean Osbourne with a variation of an inverted side slam.  2) Bison Smith annihilates Sal Rinauro for the entire match, ends it with an Iron Claw Chokeslam.  3) Roderick Strong, Erick Stevens, & BOBBY DEMPSEY defeat Kenny King, Chasyn Rance, & Rhett Titus when Dempsey hit Rance with his Death Valley Driver.  4) Austin Aries defeats The Necro Butcher with a kick/brainbuster combo. Jacobs distracted the ref and Delirious hit a chair shot to set the pin up.  5) Bryan Danielson & Jerry Lynn defeat Jimmy Jacobs & Delirious in a really fun match when Jacobs tapped to Cattle Mutilation.   ~INTERMISSION~   6) Nigel McGuinness defeats Brent Albright by rolling out of The Crowbar and grabbing the tights. Great, hard hitting match.  7) Kevin Steen & El Generico defeat The Dark City Fight Club in a highly entertaining, very competitive match with the brainbuster/package piledriver combo. "More DCFC in ROH please."  8) Tyler Black defeats Davey Richards with the corner powerbomb & superkick. Great main event to end the night on.  Sounds quite reasonable to me... I wonder how Orlando draws tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotlightmagnet1 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Who were the British Lions? Andy Boy Simmonz and James Tighe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dearly Devoted Dexter Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 What was the attendance for the first show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 Who were the British Lions? Andy Boy Simmonz and James Tighe? Â Chris Gray and Tommy Taylor from FIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 What was the attendance for the first show? Â As in, last night, or Era of Honor Begins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobystag Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I do believe he would mean last nights show in which case I've read between 3-400. Show doesn't sound too bad. Love Tyler and Davey main eventing, that was the match that had most of my interest out of all the matches announced for this weekend. Although if Danielson/Generico is as good as their PWG encounters, that'll be a can't miss prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 I love the idea of Tyler vs Davey main eventing. Right now, I'm bothered by Tyler having a Money in the Bank style title shot. *Knowing* he's going to win the World title rather than speculating about who could beat Nigel = no fun. I'm sure the moment will be pretty special. Maybe Nigel could lose the title to someone else, before Black cashes in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dearly Devoted Dexter Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 Yes, apologies, I meant for last night's show. 400 is another terrible number. Outside of a few core areas - say New York, Chicago, Dayton, Philly - ROH's attendance figures for the past 18 months leave something to be desired. Â As regards the Black/ Nigel thing, I think it doesn't really matter if it's telegraphed so long as it's done well. For example - Batista's face turn/ Morishima's GHC win - everyone knew they were coming months before they happened. But even though you lose the element of suprise, you do get a sense of anticipation, of the possible being actualized. Fuck, that was a bit postmodernist. Â But as an alternative to a Black title win in the short term, how about putting the belt on Lynn (it'll be like The Wrestler, but without the heart attack), then immeadiatly turning him heel and him working a short program with Black which culminates in Blaick winning the belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 7, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2009 I don't know why ROH tried this Florida weekend without Wrestlemania as a background. It's not like FIP have been doing huge numbers, and TNA draw people to the TV tapings because it's free - they just cancelled a date in Jacksonville, FL. I fear for tonight's Orlando show, when FIP ran there they only did 150 in the building they used for DGC2/SOH3 last year. Â Mind you, with a good show, you can build on 400 in a market like Coral Springs, but if it was actually 2-300 (I've seen that and 400 in 2 seperate reports) there's no chance of a return. I don't blame them for trying new markets, but there's no guarantee that they will work out even with a great product, and they don't really have that at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 8, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2009 Proving Ground 09 Night 2 Orlando Downtown Recreation Complex February 7th, 2009- 8:00pm belltime 649 West Livingston Street Orlando, FL 32801  RESULTS  Preshow  1) Heartbreak Express defeat Brett Thunder & ?  2) Brandon Marino defeats Chris Escobar  3) Chasyn Rance & Sal Rinauro defeat Ninja Brown & Bobby Dempsey   Main Show  1) Jerry Lynn defeats Shawn Osborne in about 11 minutes with a Cradle Piledriver. Better opener than last night, decent match.  2) Kenny King & Rhett Titus defeat The British Lions with an assisted springboard blockbuster. Fun tag action. Kenny King was monster over.  ~A HDNet camera man is here getting lots of close up shots of the crowd.  3) Bison Smith defeated some jobber with a military press in the corner followed by an Ironclaw Chokeslam.  4) Kevin Steen defeats Davey Richards in about 12 minutes when he countered the Cloverleaf in to a small package. Really good match.  5) Tyler Black & The Necro Butcher defeat Jimmy Jacobs & Delirious in about 17 minutes via DQ after Jacobs hammered Black with a steel chair as he went for his superkick to Delirious. Very chaotic match towards the finish. Jacobs speared Black off the apron to the floor, then Necro put Jimmy on a table and legdropped him through it on the floor.   ~INTERMISSION~   6) Austin Aries defeats Brad Attitude with a kick to the head/brainbuster combo in a little over 10 minutes.  7) Roderick Strong, Erick Stevens, & Brent Albright defeat The Dark City Fight Club & Francisco Ciatso when Ciatso tapped to the Stronghold. Match of the night so far easily. Very stiff with tons of chops. At one point Roderick went to the floor to attack Ciatso, and ate a Pounce from Davis in to the guardrail so hard to it knocked down and potentially broke the HDNet Camera that was nearby. Davis' chest was bleeding from all the chops. Roderick found himself in a lot of triple teams. Ciatso and the Fight Club got a long "PLEASE COME BACK" chant.  ~After Generico and Danielson both make their entrances, they shake hands. The crowd starts a "hug him!" chant at Dragon. He does not hug Generico, much to the disappointment of those in attendance. This prompted a "SAY YOU'RE SORRY!" chant. After a minute of learning Spanish from the crowd, Dragon apologizes to Generico and hugs him. Crowd totally ate this up.  8) El Generico defeats Bryan Danielson in 21 minutes with the Brainbuster following a distraction from Bison Smith. Smith came out, but Dragon dove on him before he could interfere. As Dragon re-entered the ring, he was drilled with the Yakuza and the Brainbuster. Easily the new MOTN, with the crowd totally electric for it.  ~After the match Bison continued his assault, powerbombing Dragon once more. Danielson was helped out by some students.  ~Prior to the main event, Nigel gets a microphone. He calls D'Lo "Savio Vega", then says Obama isn't black and neither is D'Lo. D'Lo says he saw that Nigel said he watched D'Lo as a kid, saying it was like a child watching a real man. D'Lo says he spoke with Nigel's girlfriend and she said he isn't a man either. D'Lo says Nigel is lost and confused. He then tells Nigel that this is "a MAN'S game bitch" then slaps the taste out of Nigel's mouth.  9) ROH World Championship: Nigel McGuinness defeats D'Lo Brown in 16 minutes after two rebound lariats to retain the championship. Pretty good match with some decent spots. After the match Nigel trash talked D'Lo, who laid him out and posed with the belt.  Overall, a very good show. When asked about a return, Cary said "probably not for a while."  I'd say this sounds like a weekend of good shows, the use of FIP guys lower on the card probably kept costs down, but the crowds weren't enough to warrant a return.  Thoughts on the results... Davey loses again, is he getting a push or not?... Not keen on Bison Smith-terference, but if he has the one match with Danielson then leaves, then fine... I think putting Strong, Stevens and Albright together is good, as they can do the hard hitting stuff as a unit instead of having multiple similar extended singles matches... The AOTF storyline stuff is tiring me a bit, although the match here sounds fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 8, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 8, 2009 OK, so I have dug out Battle of the Icons today. Ehhhhh.... there's no way it's a top 50 show for ROH for me, let alone top 20. Â The six man with Aries, Strong and Evans vs Delirious, Davey Richards and SHINGO is the match of the night, and something of a forgotten gem. That said, I'd say the six man from Final Battle 2006 is better. That show is a better contender for top 20 than this, as a matter of fact. Â Elsewhere on BOTI, Nigel vs Rave under I Quit rules is a good match that gets really good as it builds towards the end. Then there's a referee stoppage finish rather than either man saying 'I Quit', which kinda taints it. Once again, there's an obvious better match between the two in Liverpool a few shows later, too. Â The Briscoes vs Reyes and Romero is a mish-mash of a match, with another dodgy finish as Romero walks out. Before that point, it couldn't decide if it wanted to be an all-action match or a southern tag with tags behind the referees back. Â Whitmer vs Jacobs had some brutal chairshots but no heat for anything else. They had better matches before and afterwards. Â The card is rounded out by a flat main event, Adam Pearce vs Pelle Primeau and Cabana/Del Rey vs Lacey/Albright. Not to mention the Edison crowd are pretty much dead for the whole show. It was tiresome to watch. Just no. IMO of course. Â From 2007 alone, Good Times, Great Memories and DBD5 night 1 are better shows, not counting the ones already in the list. Final Battle 2006 (2 shows prior) is an obvious alternative, with Daniels vs Rave vs Richards vs Generico, Briscoes vs Kings of Wrestling, Aries/Strong/Delirious vs SHINGO/CIMA/Sydal and the main event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King is Dead Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Not ROH but related - what are the best FIP shows? And before anyone says anything, i've seen Strong/Stevens from Redefined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gadge Posted February 16, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 ROH are bringing in Ric Flair for multiple events, starting March 13 in the St Louis area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dearly Devoted Dexter Posted February 16, 2009 Paid Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 ROH are bringing in Ric Flair for multiple events, starting March 13 in the St Louis area  Flair doesn't come cheap. I really hope they know what they're doing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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