Official ROH Discussion Thread

[gadge]

In the mean time, Jay Briscoe is getting another ROH title shot in January. Oh well, the January shows are usually a bit duff anyway...

[gadge]

The first thing one wonders when watching EVOLVE 2 is how big the crowd would have been (it's about 100, 150 max) if a massive rain storm hadn't hit the area.

 

The second is when will EVOLVE undercards get a sense of direction, as much like EVOLVE 1, the first five matches whizz by in under 45 minutes and don't really leave much of an impression. Brad Allen beats Chris Dickinson in 6:33. Gran Akuma forces the MUCH larger Brodie Lee to submit in just 3:45, but without getting any of his usual dislikeability across. Up In Smoke defeat Aeroform in a spotty match reminiscent of the old X-Division that could have offered more if given longer than 4:50. Kenn Doane defeats a jobber but takes 6:45 over it and overuses headlocks without making it ironic. Then, Kyle O'Reilly beats Hallowicked with a brainbuster in 6:30 of a match that had some good chain wrestling but, like the card itself, felt directionless overall.

 

Chuck Taylor vs Ricochet is the first really watchable match, with good action and a sense that at least one of the guys involved (Taylor) is getting pushed in a way that could be worth some investment for the viewer. That does also kinda telegraphs the Taylor victory, in spite of Ricochet having a 1-0 record going in. The Awful Waffle gets it done for Chucky T in 10:52. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Chuck in EVOLVE and Ricochet in DGUSA...

 

Claudio Castagnoli vs Bobby Fish keeps the ball rolling nicely, with both men looking good in a very competitive battle. Fish kicking out of the UFO at one and Ricola Bomb at two before the ten minute mark almost seems like overkill, but the sequences they put together after that make it worthwhile indeed. Claudio picks up the win after a combination of lariats and European Uppercuts at 11:38, before Chuck Taylor comes back out and a match between them is set for EVOLVE 3. I like that.

 

From there, Mercedes Martinez defends the WSU World Title against Sumie Sakai in a good but short 5:37 battle, then Jimmy Jacobs punishes Johnny Gargano, dumping him on his head with the Super Contra Code before making him tap to the guillotine choke at 6:42. A couple of backstage segments with Jacobs, Gargano and Sean Davis (formerly of FIP's Heartbreak Express) leading up to this one were cringe-inducingly awful. Jacobs' in-ring effort got over nicely though.

 

The CHIKARA crew tear it up in an elimination match in the semi-final spot. The opening eight minute section of Mike Quackenbush & Jigsaw vs The Osirian Portal vs The Colony vs Frightmare & Hallowicked in particular is a million miles an hour high flying spectacle, though the action is really fun all the way through. The Osirian Portal get the surprise win, last eliminating Quackenbush and Jigsaw at 18:03. The only real problem here is it would probably be considered too silly on a bigger stage. Screw that though, I liked it plenty.

 

The main event is a bit of an odd one to judge. There's a lot to like in the battle of Chris Hero vs Ikuto Hidaka, but the vast amount of the 28:22 the match gets is intricate matwork, and while its all really good and the crowd is clearly likes it, they don't like it *enough* to generate the atmosphere of a classic match with there being so few there in such a sizeable building. So, it's a really good match that just kinda feels a bit flat. Hidaka wins with a second high kick.

 

Overall, there's certainly enough to justify a look at EVOLVE 2, with Chuck Taylor and Claudio Castagnoli's matches in the middle and the top two matches the standouts - but the small nature of the crowd may be offputting to some.

 

Up next for me is ROH The Big Bang, a show I'm currently in the middle of watching which certainly does have the feel of a major card...

[theblackvinnymac]

In the mean time, Jay Briscoe is getting another ROH title shot in January. Oh well, the January shows are usually a bit duff anyway...

 

 

But thats the thing apart from Davey v Roderick what other matches scream main event?

ROH havent built up anyone else up to challenge for the title......

 

They were making headway with Steens character but he's now gone due to his mask v roh career story line

Austin Aries isnt wrestling for the company which is a shame because a Richards, Strong, Aries 3 way fued would of been interesting

Hero, King & Edwards are the only ones currently in the company I personally see being a hot feud away from being involved in the title picture and having a effect but it seems ROH management have other ideas

Edited December 23, 2010 by theblackvinnymac

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Be interesting to see if Lo-Ki comes back

[theblackvinnymac]

Adds a new element to things just hope he comes back with a name other than low-ki lol

[The Cum Doctor]

Senshi?

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Jay Briscoe vs Roderick Strong is a decent main event - for January anyway. They had a few good matches in 2009, so although Jay has no chance of winning the belt, it should be a decent match. If they're not going to put the belt on Richards just yet they need to find something to keep him busy while Strong gets some victories under his belt. Maybe losing their program with the KOW could be the catalyst for the inevitable Richards vs Edwards program. I wrote an awesome six-month feud for them when I was bored at a conference a few months ago. The idea was to have Edwards and Kyle O Reilly (who Richards trained) turn on Davey and form the American Wolves 2.0. O Reilly would get a couple of singles matches with Davey, who'd make him look good before beating him, plus some singles and tag stuff with Edwards, culminating in a Fight Without Honor.

[Daaaaaad!]

Jay Briscoe must now surely be the new Roderick Strong? (i.e. most title shots without success)

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Losing Jay Briscoe title efforts off the top of my head :

 

Samoa Joe (Tradition Continues)

Samoa Joe (At Our Best)

Takeshi Morishima (Fight at the Roxbury)

Nigel McGuinness (Chaos at the Cow Palace)

Jerry Lynn (Validation)

 

So five unsuccessful challenges.

[gadge]

I really liked the matches with Joe, but they weren't enough justification for Jay's matches with the others on that list. You do make a good point about previous Roderick vs Jay encounters though...

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

I enjoyed Jay vs. Joe at Tradition Continues, but they didn't really have enough going to stretch the feud out until March. Even the cage match wasn't that great, but was saved by Jay's monumental juice job.

[gadge]

The Big Bang - Charlotte, NC - 3/4/10

 

ROH's second iPPV, this time round the DVD version comes complete with the iPPV commentary, which was done live by Dave Prazak and Kevin 'I commentate like Vince McMahon' Kelly...

 

Phill Shatter vs Zack Salvation - A battle of the locals to kick us off. Shatter comes out wearing an unacknowledged title belt, which telegraphs the result. One or two sticky moments aside, this is a solid enough opener, and the crowd seem into both guys well enough. Shatter wins with a spinebuster at 7:28, which seems quite random as a finish.

 

Pick 6 Series: Kenny King (5) vs Davey Richards - Now this is more like it. This is the best singles match for Kenny King in seemingly forever, but realistically it's all down to Richards, who actually combines being pushed as a face and getting the reactions of a face with wrestling like a face here, which is a step that's been needed for a bit. Richards wins by submission with the Texas Cloverleaf in 17:17, and it's credit to the quality of the action that it didn't feel that long at all.

 

After the match, Dave Prazak interviews Richards, who now has a Pick 6 spot to allow him into World title contention. Richards talks about needing the belt to make him the best in the world, only to be interrupted by Christopher Daniels surprise ROH return, which goes down a storm with the live crowd. Words are exchanged, and a match is set up for somewhere down the line. Simple stuff, but very effective.

 

Necro Butcher vs Erick Stevens - A shockingly effective and heated Butcher's Rules match, which allows both men to brawl at full pelt around ringside and the Embassy to interfere here and there. Nothing even vaguely concludes here though, as Necro takes advantage of an Embassy cock-up to score a roll-up victory in about nine minutes, only to get beat down afterwards. A lame finish to an otherwise good brawl.

 

Cassandro El Exotico vs Rhett Titus - Fun stuff here. For some reason though, the commentary is almost inaudible for this one. Rhett doesn't look out of place in there with Cassandro at all, with some good wrestling from both men in amongst the comedy spots. Unfortunately Cassandro breaks his leg on a dive, though he still manages to hit a missile dropkick and secure the roll-up victory at 8:53 afterwards.

 

Steve Corino & Kevin Steen vs El Generico & Colt Cabana - I was a bit disappointed by the actual action in this one, possibly because the brawling was overshadowed by Stevens and Necro's brawling efforts earlier. That said, the important stuff here is in the post-match angle. Steen and Generico barely lay a finger on each other in the actual match, as Generico still won't attack his former partner. Steen then gets his team DQed at 10:03 when he uses a chair to save Corino from being defeated. After that though, Generico finally snaps and attacks Steen, then a bunch of backstage nobodies run in only to get laid out by Generico and Cabana. Hopefully the Chicago Streetfight set up in the aftermath will be better now Generico will actually battle Steen.

 

ROH World Tag Team Titles: Jay & Mark Briscoe vs The Kings of Wrestling - One of the problems with being almost eight months behind in watching ROH is that when big matches turn out well, in the time between the show and now, there's plenty of time for me to be influenced by other reviews. After watching this one, I have to echo the words of DDD, in that this isn't a match where the extended sprint finish blows you away - this is top, intense tag team wrestling from minute one. Unfortunately, almost eight months later the excitement for seeing the Kings of Wrestling win the gold for the second time has diminished a bit, and the finish lets the whole thing down more than just a bit. Claudio distracts the ref from the floor, Shane Hagadorn breaks up the doomsday device, and Hero levels Jay with the loaded elbow for the pin and title change at 30:20. We then get a very up close shot of Jay vomiting onto the floor as the Kings celebrate in the ring. That has to take selling a concussion to another level. A really good match overall.

 

ROH World Title: Tyler Black vs Roderick Strong vs Austin Aries - Jim Cornette joins the commentary team for the main event, which is fitting given his role in the build up, though it kinda dates the match a bit. There's some exchanges in the first ten minutes that don't work out quite right, but otherwise this elimination three-way is of a really good standard. Aries does some good work in trying to dip in and out of the match, though he also takes the insane route of missing the heat seeking missile and going face first into the ringside barrier. Roderick is the first to go, though he's made to look strong (no pun intended) in the process as he takes a huge series of moves from both men before being pinned by Aries at 26:30. In a senseless decision, Kenny King runs in during the final portion, and some messy miscommunication spots with Aries play a part in Tyler retaining the title with a second God's Last Gift at 31:22. Aries really should have gone down cleanly to make Tyler look good there. Still, this almost lived up to the extensive hype. Roderick saves Tyler from an Aries/King beatdown afterwards, but then refuses to shake hands as frustration continues to get the better of him. At least that made sense.

 

DVD run time for the main part of The Big Bang is 2 hours, 49 minutes. For the most part it's a cracking show. It definitely feels like a major event, and it's easily ROH's best of 2010 to this point. Outside interference being involved in the finishes of both the title matches at the end let things down for certain, though, and makes what could have been a great example for ROH to show off as to why they are different, instead look like a show by any other promotion.

 

Blue Demon Jr & Magno vs Super Parka & Misterioso - The final match of the iPPV/live show (it's not really the main event) is bundled in the bonus section of the DVD. Parts of it bring back nightmarish memories of the L.A. Park & El Hijo De Rey Misterio vs Derrick Neikirk & G. O. Gallo match from the DGUSA Open The Ultimate Gate event the week before, as they all seem to be standing around not co-operating or really doing anything. Blue Demon and Magno look good in other parts though, and when everyone works together there is some more than watchable action. I don't get it. Magno gets the win for his team at 15:34.

[gadge]

Pick Your Poison - Dayton, OH - 23/4/10

 

ROH returns to Dayton, which is usually one of the stronger B towns, and I realised here the Montgomery County Fairgrounds is now the longest running venue for ROH shows. I like it, the place is always pretty full and responsive to the action.

 

Sami Callihan vs Metal Master - The former Chad Collyer surprisingly shows character pretty well in the Master costume. He also gets the win in his re-debut with the Toilet Flush at 7:20. A fun little opener to get the crowd going.

 

Necro Butcher & Rasche Brown vs Erick Stevens & Shawn Daivari - Much like the Stevens vs Necro singles match at The Big Bang, there's some hot brawling here while it lasts. Also like at The Big Bang, the finish comes out of nowhere as Brown pins Daivari with a spear at 6:38, only for the Embassy to lay Brown and Necro out afterwards. The Embassy also lay waste to some minions who run out from backstage in a miserable effort to break up the beating. We'll be onto the next chapter of the neverending feud soon enough, unfortunately.

 

Pick 6 Series: Chris Hero (3) vs Petey Williams - There's a curious moment here as the Pick 6 rankings are shown, and despite the fact we saw Davey Richards beat Kenny King for the #5 spot at The Big Bang, Richards is now #4 and we don't get an explanation until two matches later. It also seems odd to see Hero back in singles action here, one show after winning the tag titles, but the match itself is a decent competitive encounter. Petey enters a good performance, completely ignoring the ridiculous 'Definition of Definition' character birthed in the Land of Stupidity. Despite that, this is really the Hero (and his elbows) show for the most part, though he does take and survive the Canadian Destroyer before getting a submission win with the Stretch Plum at 16:52 after first blasting Petey with (what else?)some elbows.

 

Dark City Fight Club vs American Wolves - This is based around the Wolves looking for revenge for a defeat suffered on TV on March 1st, one of the last TV episodes I remember from before the ROHBrazil YouTube account closed. While it's only about half the length, this match has a similar standard to the Briscoes/KOW match at The Big Bang, with aggression and intensity thoroughout. Signs of dissension between the Wolves have completely melted away, as they bust out a number of slick double teams, and Eddie Edwards follows the example of Richards at The Big Bang by getting over as more of a fan favourite than before, especially as the match progresses. The Dark City Fight Club do well to keep up here, entering a much more rounded showing than, say, their 8th Anniversary bout with the Briscoes. They can't get a second straight victory over the Wolves though, as Jon Davis has his leg decimated and is forced to tap to the Achilles Lock of Edwards at 16:41. Really good stuff.

 

Austin Aries & Rhett Titus vs The House of Truth - It seems odd to try and follow the previous bout with a battle of two heel teams, but they get off to a good start with an over the top exchange of cheating from everyone involved, with tights and hair pulled, eyes poked and interference from Truth Martini. The bout is too long at 18:18, but mostly solid. Somehow Titus ends up being brainbustered by Aries(!), and the House of Truth score the upset win with an unnamed double team. Oh, and we finally get an explanation during this one for the Pick 6 rankings, as it turns out Aries has 'injured' Delirious on HDNet. I might see that once the Best of HDNet DVDs reach that point, but I really can't be arsed to seek out the TV by downloadable or other means.

 

Roderick Strong vs El Generico - This bout is the first of two Pick Your Poison matches on the card, hence the show title. It's also a bit of a blinder, as Strong and Generico tear the house down. I was a bit disappointed by the newly refocused Generico going down in the end, but that's credit to the strength of his character, and Strong definitely needs the momentum more going into a one-on-one shot at the title in NYC in May. Strong decimates the back of Generico here, with more variations of the backbreaker than usual (!) and finishes him off with a huge combination of moves, even rolling Generico through the Gibson Driver just so he can nail one last Yakuza Kick to ensure the pin at 18:53. The build to Strong fully turning heel is going nicely. Cracking match.

 

Jay & Mark Briscoe vs Steve Corino & Kevin Steen - This follows immediately on from the previous bout, as the Briscoes save Generico from a Steen & Corino beating. They start with a big brawl through the crowd with chairs flying everywhere, very reminiscent of previous ROH matches from all four men (this is GOOD). Corino doesn't look like the odd man out at all when they go to the in-ring action either, credit to him. The only thing letting this one down is a flat finish, as Steen stops Mark from completing the doomsday device, and Corino rolls up Jay with a handful of tights for the pin at 17:44. Still, the storytelling that Corino & Steen survived the poison picked for them while El Generico got battered and beaten before the Chicago Streetfight set for the next night is good.

 

ROH World Title: Tyler Black vs Kenny King - Suddenly Kenny King's interference at the end of the main event of The Big Bang makes sense, as his Pick Six spot finally earns him a shot at the World Title. If roles were reversed and King was a fan favourite challenger to evil Tyler Black, this would possibly have been a star-making match, as King counters all Tyler's stuff repeatedly and enters clearly the best performance of his ROH career in this one. As it is, a somewhat muted crowd reaction and (due to?) the fact King actually winning the title isn't really believeable puts a damper on things and this is 'merely' a good, long World title encounter. I'd possibly go so far as to say that King kicking out of God's Last Gift not once but twice in this one actually harms Tyler as champion. Tyler follows that second one with a superkick to keep the title at 25:36. A good effort.

 

Overall, Pick Your Poison is one of the best 'B' shows from ROH in ages. It's wrestling heavy, with six straight matches longer than fifteen minutes, all of which are at least solid, and DCFC vs American Wolves and El Generico vs Roderick Strong are excellent. The show follows on really well from The Big Bang too, which is hopefully a good sign in terms of the DVD shows in general becoming more watchable. Recommended. DVD run time is 2 hours, 48 minutes.

Edited December 28, 2010 by gadge

[Dearly Devoted Dexter]

Pick Your Poison is one of the best 'B' shows from ROH in ages. It's wrestling heavy, with six straight matches longer than fifteen minutes, all of which are at least solid

 

Agreed.

 

Hopefully a review of eps 73-78 of ROH on HDNet will be up shortly....

[neil's bitch]

Have ROH Dropped the Pick 6? If so thats a bit random as they made such a big deal of it last year. I only ask as mark/jay briscoe is getting a shot at the title.......yet he wasnt in the pick 6 was he?

 

Also if they kept this up, it would of been good for a tag team pick 6 considering the tag team division beign how it is. Also Also, WGTT in ROH? awesome! Saw they did a few shows last year, but full time-ish? cool!