Scottish Football Discussion Thread 2010/11

[bAzTNM Fan]

 

 

Wow. Phil Mac Giolla Bhain is worth his weight in gold.

[InvertedSmiley]

Fantastic investigative journalism. Shame it has to come from outwith Scotland.

 

Phil also revealed that the SFA warned Hugh Dallas of the impending scandal and advised him to leave the country. The chief executive Stewart Regan, however, wasn't told about the story and was furious when he found out about the devised media strategy.

 

The article can be read here, for those interested

[sgmilne]

Sorry, where's the evidence that any referee has been threatened by a Celtic fan?

 

I'm sure you're going to be very pedantic again, but you should remember it's not just referees who are on strike, it's the linesmen as well. And a linesman - Steven Craven - has been threatened and his son has been subjected to verbal abuse since the 'incident'. Why would that be from anyone other than Celtic fans?

 

As for Collum, from what I've read he was subject to Death Threats, not 'Sectarian Abuse' following Celtic's request for 'clarification'.

 

Again, referees are not striking because they have been criticised, they are striking because they is the inference that they are deliberately biased against Celtic.

 

And while Neil Lennon may well have been subject to a 4 match ban, other managers in the past have been given large fines far quicker than Lennon has been dealt with.

 

Now clearly you don't want to admit/believe Celtic have taken this whole thing to a higher level and are ultimately at the heart of the current situation, nor do you want to admit/believe that Celtic fans are the ones responsible for referees/linesman coming under personal fire. I think every non Celtic fan who is following the situation pretty much knows that they are as well.

 

So fine, come back with the 'There's no proof' and 'Other managers have criticised referees before' party line. There's obviously nothing I can say that will get you agreeing with me, and there's certainly nothing you can say to me that will change my view, so the debate may as well stop now. I bet it won't though...

[InvertedSmiley]

I'm sure you're going to be very pedantic again, but you should remember it's not just referees who are on strike, it's the linesmen as well. And a linesman - Steven Craven - has been threatened and his son has been subjected to verbal abuse since the 'incident'. Why would that be from anyone other than Celtic fans?

Craven said in his Sunday Mail interview that his son had taken a bit of playground stick over the incident and that it was nothing serious. He resigned because he felt he was being made the scapegoat for Dougie Dougie's lies and because he feels that Hugh Dallas bullies his staff, not because he received threats from Celtic fans, because he didn't.

 

As for Collum, from what I've read he was subject to Death Threats, not 'Sectarian Abuse' following Celtic's request for 'clarification'.

Seems like your ability to read is equal to your ability to listen.

 

Last night Collum's SFA bosses confirmed that he had been the target of death threats and added that there was a sectarian undertone to the calls .

 

Link

 

Again, referees are not striking because they have been criticised, they are striking because they is the inference that they are deliberately biased against Celtic.

 

Scottish match officials are upset with the avalanche of flak that has come their way this season.

 

BBC Scotland has learned that officials are concerned that their integrity is constantly being questioned by some clubs and individuals.

 

Link Note the plural. Clubs. Not club.

 

Now clearly you don't want to admit/believe Celtic have taken this whole thing to a higher level and are ultimately at the heart of the current situation

I already did, but as you seem to have difficulty in reading I will quote it for you:

 

My arguement hasn't been that this charade wasn't brought about by the fallout of the Dundee United-Celtic game. That clearly was the catalyst - and rightly so, because a referee has admitted to lying to Neil Lennon, the head of referees and in his match report and he is still officiating SPL games. Of course people are going to question the integrity of referees when self-confessed liars are officiating matches.

 

nor do you want to admit/believe that Celtic fans are the ones responsible for referees/linesman coming under fire

Ah, so it's the fault of all the Celtic fans that 80% of Scottish referees failed an exam on the laws of the game? The fault of Celtic fans that referee's make high-profile errors on a regular basis? The fault of Celtic fans that the SFA failed to act on the admission of a referee that he was dishonest?

 

Those damn Tims, being lied to by a referee and then daring to question their integrity! They really ought to lie down and accept it, I suppose.

[sgmilne]

My point is to ask why this is all because of Celtic when every other SPL has been known to criticise officials - some more than once - and why the story is centering around that dastardly Celtic for demanding that referees be - shock horror! - honest?

 

Right, I'd replied to some of your points in the post directly above this but it's getting tiresome so I'm going to wind back and simply reply to this as you say this is your arguement...

 

So my response to your arguement is that no other SPL club has criticised referees to the level Celtic have.

 

Once again, it's worth mentioning that...

 

Gary Hooper out-right accused referees of being biased against Celtic.

Neil Lennon accused a completely different referee of being dishonest when he had no grounds to do so. He also suggested that the overall standard of refereeing was very poor.

Neil Lennon also in successive weeks criticised a referee's performance, even when the refs got the decisions correct.

John Reid spoke out saying the SFA should sack McDonald, that referees should state who they support (with the subtext that the ones who are Rangers fans shouldn't be allowed to referee Celtic games)

 

Also it's worth mentioning that Celtic's 'paranoia' about referees is nothing new. Last year they went to the SFA with a list of just under 30 decisions they sought 'clarification' on. Now ALL clubs could do that, but it's only Celtic who do, because they are the only ones who think that they are being discriminated against rather than refereeing standards just being poor. But let's not forget that refereeing standards are poor everywhere.

 

 

In your quotes of articles, you mentioned that people aren't saying it's just Celtic; that it's 'clubs' instead of 'club'. But you must see that the SFA are making a deliberate effort of NOT saying it's Celtic, because if they did it would dig the proverbial trenches deeper.

 

One thing you didn't quote however, from the article you've used to back up your arguement is this, from one of the unofficial referee spokesman who - in lew of there being no official press statement from the referees - is about as close as we'll get.

 

Clark is in no doubt that it is the pressure from Celtic that has led to the strike action.

.

 

Finally, I suggest you look at this particular article, which paints a realistic picture of the situation

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/des...ne/article/448/

[Chaka Demus]

Serious question to the paranoid tims in this thread. I'll keep it simple, how is Dougie McDonald lying to Neil Lennon any different to Celtic (and anny other clubs players for that matter) players lying to referees when they dive for penelties and free kicks?

[cogitoergozoomo]

For me they are completely different situations but there are similarities.

 

A player who dives gets a reputation and is forever tainted with it and people immediately scrutinise the decision when they fall in the box. Luckily we can all see the 'lie' in action and decide for ourselves.

 

A referee who is found to lie ends up in a similar situation and as a result every past and future decision he makes will be treated with suspicion. Unfortunately unlike a dive we can't see his 'lie'. It is a decision he makes in his head. Somebody who is in a position where they uphold the law cannot be seen as someone who lies to cover up their own mistakes.

 

Plus he was stupid enough to put the lie in print and continued to peddle it after.

[Hugh Thesz]

Kenny McBride made a good point about foreign officials being brought in to break the strike.

 

Firstly I wonder how many of the self professed "good plain auld working class fitba fans" with Socialist principles will be happy to watch strike breaking (I hate the use of the word scab as it entrenches both sides attitudes) labour.

 

Secondly how many of said fans would be the first to throw the word scab on top of the usual useless or incompetent or fenian or masonic or corrupt abuse allegations should they have chosen to fly abroad in order to break a strike?

 

As someone who worked as a Union representative when I worked within the Civil Service I find it amazing that people can still believe (or say they believe to be more accurate) that a withdrawal of labour could only be associated with pay. The parents and Grandparents of many fans today would have been assisted by Union led action protecting their welfare. I am not a socialist or someone who thinks Unions are above criticism but any employee has the right to protest.

 

On that topic, as an ex Union representative I advised many people making complaints over offensive comments made either towards them or in their company. What I always instructed though was that they should subsequently take account of how they behave and what they say in case a counter allegation be made. Similarly those claiming loudest over Dallas, McDonald or the SFA had better have clean fucking noses as their bile and their bigotry shall be as easily scrutinised and criticised as much as the bile and bigotry of which they complain. If you truly believe the Scottish press is bias then I ask what will happen when the inevitable "offensive" e-mail/joke/behaviour about the Royal family of whatfuckingever from a Celtic minded person of authority is exposed?

 

No-one is going to win with this. Even if the SFA are proven to be incompetent the subsequent focus on the Scottish game shall cast a bigger spotlight on, amongst other, the "party songs" enjoyed by both sides of the Old Firm on a regular basis. Do you think that UEFA would follow the Scottish press example of obsequiously accepting the 'it's hard to control the behaviour of our fans who travel to away games' argument?

 

By the way is there any UEFA area precedent of officials taking industrial action?

 

Shuggy

[The Cum Doctor]

It says at the top of the BBC Sport page that referees have been secured. There wasn't a link to an article yet.

[InvertedSmiley]

Serious question to the paranoid tims in this thread. I'll keep it simple, how is Dougie McDonald lying to Neil Lennon any different to Celtic (and anny other clubs players for that matter) players lying to referees when they dive for penelties and free kicks?

In the same vein, how is a referee basically accusing a player of cheating by booking him for diving (when in some instances a player hasn't dived) any different from Neil Lennon (or any other manager, such as Craig Levein) accusing a referee of cheating?

 

Anyway, referees from European nations have been secured and the six SPL fixtures and the Alba Challenge Cup Final will go ahead as scheduled.

[The Cum Doctor]

Sounds like they've got referees for other games as well but they just don't want to confirm yet.

 

Could do with one for Cappielow please !

[Chaka Demus]

Anyway, referees from European nations have been secured and the six SPL fixtures and the Alba Challenge Cup Final will go ahead as scheduled.

 

Ah the old broom is out again. Let's sweep our clubs disgraceful behaviour under the rug because Refs have now been sourced.

[InvertedSmiley]

Anyway, referees from European nations have been secured and the six SPL fixtures and the Alba Challenge Cup Final will go ahead as scheduled.

 

Ah the old broom is out again. Let's sweep our clubs disgraceful behaviour under the rug because Refs have now been sourced.

You're not happy that the weekend fixtures are going ahead as planned?

[Chaka Demus]

Anyway, referees from European nations have been secured and the six SPL fixtures and the Alba Challenge Cup Final will go ahead as scheduled.

 

Ah the old broom is out again. Let's sweep our clubs disgraceful behaviour under the rug because Refs have now been sourced.

You're not happy that the weekend fixtures are going ahead as planned?

 

Of course I'm happy. I never said I wasn't.

 

But Scottish referees are still on strike.

[InvertedSmiley]

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain has just posted another bombshell story on his website.

 

Everything he's posted to date has been spot on, and if this is true then there really is no shame...

 

Hugh Dallas offered to call off strike if his case dropped!

 

By: Phil Mac Giolla Bhain

 

Exclusive.

 

Hugh Dallas and Stewart Regan had a blazing row on Monday at the SFA headquarters in Glasgow.

 

Hugh Dallas offered to call off the referees strike if his disciplinary hearing into the Pope email was called off.

 

On hearing this ultimatum an SFA insider said: