WildSybianRider

* * * spoilers for Prometheus * * *

Slightly disappointed. I still enjoyed it a lot. I love the Alien mythology so much that I was always gonna enjoy it. Michael Fassbender was good as expected but I actually thought he was too creepy. He didn't have the veneer of humanity that made the original androids (or Ash, at least) so sinister. He was just like a rent-a-Nazi generic bad guy, but performed really well. Stunningly pretty film but no tension, no claustrophobia. All the theological stuff was a bit hokey, too. Has Ridley Scott got a terminal disease or smth?

I do think I'll like it more on a second viewing. 3-D was really elegant on it but I'm gonna try and see it in IMAX.

EDIT - oh and the noise really doesn't help re: tension. I'm guessing future edits will have a lot more silence, a lot less orchestras. EDIT II - altho, I'm not sure about that. Prometheus is grandiose where Alien was quiet and introspective. I guess the clue was in the title, right? There's loads to like in the film. I guess I'm just frustrated because it could never live up to Alien, could it? Maybe it's better that it didn't try. I'll probably edit this again in a minute.

- Alien or Aliens? And why?

I posted in the top-something films thread that I was surprised how much higher Aliens was. I like it a lot but I think I've seen it three, maybe four, times. Alien is one of my favourite ever films. Alien is why I settle down each night with a box of tissues to watch the Prometheus trailer. (Altho, by the trailer, it does seem more like Aliens.)

- Is Sir Ridley Scott a world class filmmaker, only brilliant when the material is strong and challenging or a decent hack who got lucky over the years? His CV has some absolute stinkers and while Alien and Blade Runner are wonderfully crafted works, it's hard to think of a Ridley Scott directing signature that puts him up there with the greats. Plus, I reckon that there's an argument to be made that Blade Runner only works perfectly because its production was so fragmented. Furthermore, would anyone care about Scott's new film if it wasn't tied to this series?

I'm not deep into films, so I can't really comment on his whole...... oeuvre. But given all the diff versions, doesn't Blade Runner count as about five great films on his CV? Alien and BR alone make him one of my favourites but like I say, I'm coming at this from pretty much a position of ignorance.

I'm always conflicted, though, on Ridley Scott. I love those two films so much. But I've seen Gladiator and Black Hawk Down and the guy loves civilized crusaders slaughtering savages, doesn't he?, hurling natives through arrows or bullets to glorify the imperial overlords. Both films are stylish but they're not exactly interesting and they have a pretty nasty undertone.

- The theatrical version of Alien omits a scene where Ripley discovers what's left of her crew (including a still alive Dallas who begs for death), confirming that the Alien was abducting them rather than simply killing them. It's in the Director's Cut, and I find it a very curious omission first time round. Sure, intelligent films (sci-fi especially) should never hold the audience's hand and shout the obvious in your face, but this brief scene is important because it shows the true horror of the Alien's intentions and puts Ripley in a more harrowing situation than before. Am I wrong? Is it better left out?

It's been so long (and so many viewings) that I don't know which version I watched first. I'm now finding it impossible to answer this question, fuuuuuuck.

- Is Alien 3 rubbish or an admirable failure? Was killing Hicks and Newt off the right move? It's ballsy as fuck but it robs Ripley of an ending and a family that she earned over two films of absolute personal torture.

Space cult prison was a fucking awesome concept. But the execution was boring. The scenes with the fire are tortuous.

Yeah, I've now booked Carpet tickets, too. Never been to see a standup personality before. Nice one for the heads up!

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For me, liberalism is essentially the advancement of free, unencumbered human rights/religious freedom/ democracy. Our society is a combination of a democracy founded on liberalism, and a capitalist economy. The two may pull against each other, and they don't constitute an attack on the concept of the state, as far as I can see.

Just to confirm, you really don't know what economic liberalism is? Alanhill's posts make sense as I believe he's assuming you do, but this ^ ^ ^ really suggests otherwise.

I heart them both but is it just me who is surprised by how much more love Aliens gets than the first one?

It's the most entertaining thing to happen for people who don't really follow the sport. I'm not being sanctimonious, I barely watch it any more (the end of Zab Judah did it for me ), but it's a legitimate, interesting sporting contest. I'm kind of hideously entertained by watching them make fools of themselves and it'll no doubt whip up interest. But of course they should be punished.

Who would have ever guessed Edward Norton is Brad Pitt's father?

Unless I've remembered this really badly, there used to be a member 'air_raid_crash' who was gay. Was an angry motherfucker, too, as I recall.

Ah, my mistake.........

The chief -economic- motivation for the euro is consumer transparency (or price transparency, if you prefer. I was paraphrasing, not quoting)? Are you kidding me?

The short answer is that I don't actually know, because the counterfactual (Germany from 2002 to 2011 still with the Mark) doesn't exist.

Right, maybe we can't hypothesise about all possible Germanies. But a counterfactual D-Mark would have been traded at a significantly higher price than the euro, for the duration of its existence. For the world's second largest exporter, that's a massive advantage. It's easy to look at the current situation and think Germany is shackled by Mediterranean slobs - and Germany would no doubt be a thriving economy regardless - but their position has been strengthed for the past decade (and longer) by the periphery economies.

Everyone says if, say, Italy left the euro it'd be this giant calamity, but Britain pulled out of the ERM, which was effectively a proto-Euro, after Black Wednesday and the world didn't end. In fact, our economy prospered and the eurozone was fine as well.

The difference being, surely, that Britain leaving the ERM wasn't defaulting on trillions in debt, which is effectively what Italy would be doing? I think the banks could probably absorb a Greek default (I'm not sure how much that would spur contagion, or if it's the right thing to happend, mind). But Italy is a totally different proposition. Italy falling would be a massive fucking domino in Europe.

I don't see the economic problem if any of the countries were to fall out. What are the benefits of the euro again? Price transparency? Who cares about that really? OK, it was easier to see the price you were paying if it was quoted in euros rather than millions of lire, but does anybody in practice really think "I could get that lasagne/haircut/bread cheaper in Slovakia, so I'm buying it from there"? I won't even drive for another few minutes to save a couple of quid on a tank of petrol! And what else? Just the gesture that "We're surrendering our currency for idealism's sake." Forget that.

The chief motivation for the euro is consumer transparency? Are you kidding me?

Does anyone else still ache for a group of hippy fucking Hare Krishnas walking about in glorious 3D to completely obliterate?

Isn't that what student riots are for?

"The step will be paid for using around

And, does anyone really want Ed M in charge of the country, and Ed B in charge ofthe economy?

Just a thought.

Fun and games aside, I think you're a good guy Butch (especially compared to your smugcunt mate) but.... surely going on about "politics for the people" is making socialism a badge rather than an ethos? If you apply those principles to real life current events aren't you gonna end up saying the same thing - more or less - as bobbins?

I also disagree that socialism is working man's politics. That's the politics of my family and it does my fucking head in. If you think of socialism that way you end up as nativist and protectionist as the forces socialism was born to combat.

Thats the problem Vito be it Lab, Lib or Con we get the same shit

I despise people who say this type of thing.

Obv 'sold out' is an unhelpful term, but the Lib Dems should have pulled out of the coalition when Cameron sabotaged the AV referendum. (Or preferably stopped him doing so in the first place, as was agreed.) Being the patsy for a load of Torycunt policies is one thing but getting arsefucked over their flagpole policy in exchange?

I've only just discovered what Sybian means. I thought it was a monkey.

Not cool, mods. Not cool.

"whinging", "minority opinion" as a bad thing, "sore losers", etc. is pretty contemptible. So yeah, probably leave it at that, just...

You didn't enjoy the debate.

Not at all. ".... more likely someone will find a way to weld two brains together" was maybe my favourite ever post here. I will be passing it off as my own as soon as I get a chance.

A point literally nobody has made. You're fighting yourself in this argument!

Untrue. People have been mocking Whiskey all the way through the thread for questioning the reasons behind the riot, rather than urging the police on to break skulls. You said yourself -

"Yeah, fine. But that's not going to help tonight, is it? You seem to have nothing to suggest other than vague future plans for some sort of social rebalancing. Fiddling while Rome burns. I've been a liberal all my life but your blinkered and wet posts in this thread are an embarrassment."

If your point is about context and timing (which it seems to be), then frankly that's pathetic. Read bobbins' post about one brain, one thought process. You can watch events unfold and simultaneously talk about the bigger picture, unless you're a reactionary, hysterical idiot. Which I don't think you are. I think you've got caught up in some of the mob mentality in the thread and have now backtracked a little. That's fine, and to be applauded. But don't make Whiskey out to be the fool because he maintained some balance throughout.

When did Happ Hazzard change his username to LoKi? I must have missed the memo.

I'm disappointed in you, mayn. I know this thread has got tense but that's bullshit and you know it, bobs. The Loki account is clearly Joe the Lion.

Nice one for vid.

Meant that if army are called in - surely there is good cause for elections? Down the line, of course.

What was the facebook video that was being referenced earlier? I don't have fb so can't watch it.

And see, the thing is, not many people have denied that there are contributing factors. Everybody readily accepts their existence. And apparently, the people who keep stressing the contributing factors don't think they excuse the behaviour. So aren't we all on the same page there?

Quite. So maybe people can stop ripping into Whiskey, who's made a load of fantastic posts and brought some balance to the thread. All friends?

Anyway, I didn't know you were from West Derby. I've lived there most of my life and am here for the summer.

Saw Lodge Lane at about midnight. Loads of kids running about but they seemed excited / agitated more than dangerous. Went to my bud's house on Upper Parly (the town end of it) and could hear fireworks and see po flying past his window.

For all those who want the army called in - is that not the hallmark of a failed state?

Fuck, that BBC footage of Hackney is about five minutes from where I used to live and my mates still do.