spurs 4 life

Why is it point scoring? It's simply looking at what caused such an action, rather than going for the old knee-jerk "they're all scumbags! get the rubber bullets & water cannons out!" reaction.

Knee jerk really? I've had half my home town burned down, a friend on another forum had his house broken into and got hit, you must be watching the news at what point do you stop with the do gooding bollocks and start defending the normal folk who have had their lives ruined. It's typical of this thread that you quoted the bit where i mentioned the left wing and ignored every bit of real life experience i mentioned.

You can sit here talking about poor areas and poor kids all you want, we all know they exist, fuck me more than anyone because i'm from the area it all kicked off but it's all irrelevant bollocks because right now we have a load of people roaming the streets knowing that they can get away with arson, theft and vandalism. Nothing to do with politics at all. The cause is there morons, simple as, the way certain people have gone on in this thread you would think nobody could come out of a poor area without being a criminal.

Unbelievable that after half of London has been attacked, people have lost homes and jobs, business and let's not forget we still don't know if people have lost lives in Tottenham this thread is still full of shitty left wing point scoring.

They're young wannabee sometimes real gangsters. This isn't a cry for help, it isn't because they're hard done by it's because they're greedy little scum bags who after Saturday have cottoned on to the fact that the police have now got to the point where their so scared of bad pub or being hauled up for police brutality.

Why do you think it's spread so quickly? The utter limpness of the police force thats why. Common sense isn't it? You see gang's of youths in other areas having a ball and getting loads of free stuff and you start to realise that you can do it too. It was totally ignored just like every other time people like me have told of first hand experience with these kids but i spoke to my young co worker yesterday who knows a lot of these gangs and she asked a couple of people why they're going down to Enfield and their reply was simply " get free stuff innit?!"

They aren't scared of punishment as often they live in areas where the police are so under manned and they know the laws better than the actual police themselves.

It needs to be stopped tonight by any means they have to as for innocent people to lose so much anymore is simply not on.

Fucking hell you have to be joking

They might be wrong. People on another board think the news channels are confusing it with the Sony depot in Enfield which is about a mile away. I hope i am.

FUCK the massive Sainsburys depot at Waltam abbey is up in flames on the BBC right now.

This is crazy.

Isn't Silvervision next to that, or on the same industrial park?

I've always wondered where that was.

Bit pissed off that the premier inn there is rumoured to be in flames, i pulled my missus there.

You're right, for some reason that riot watch thing on Google Maps only added that incident about 45 mins ago. Strange.

 

Yeah I saw about the Sony depot. Seems to be the only thing going down in that part of the A10 stretch. My sisters house in Waltham Abbey got egged earlier, but I don't think that constitutes as rioting.

I said earlier that all the Hills shop in my district ( i work for them) along the Hertford road were shut all day and in Chingford we were all told to close before dark.

I'm so angry at the lack of action from the goverment right now. The police are woefully undermanned and the more we let them get away with it in the short term the more others are encouraged to do it. After Tottenham tonight was totally avoidable.

Add Waltham Cross to the list, which means this has now spread to Hertfordshire.

 

Apparently Clinton Cards & JD Sports at Brookfield Farm (Cheshunt) were smashed up by a couple of gangs earlier, but police quickly restored order.

Pretty sure the cross was done last night? Also the Sony depot at Enfield Lock is apparently in flames.

Not heard a peep about Stevenage thankgod.

A fella on another board i'm on had 3 cunts break into his flat in Ealing. Thankfully they left without harming anyone.

EDIT - he followed up with this ...

.Trashed the place, threatened me hit me in the face and took my stuff ((((

I think it's absolutely remarkable (and incredibly lucky) that no-one has dies in this situation yet.

Are we certain of that though?

On London tonight they were saying the Carpetright store in the big old building that was destroyed in Tottenham was so destroyed police still didn't know if someone had died in it.

Pity, seriously, drop the misanthropic "Mr. Common-sense" act for once. NOBODY has made excuses, they've cited reasons, and you've been determined to refuse to differentiate between the two. There is one, and no "smart" remarks or jokes will change that or prove you right.

Totally disagree there have been plenty of excuses made for what are essentially low life cunts.

Anyway Check this out.

Those turkish mini markets and cafes are run by some shady people, not the kind of place you want piss around in.

Isn't that simply going to make it worse? That will just make rioters more angry.

They're not angry! They're getting free stuff and enjoying themselves.

To continue on from my rants after the Tottenham riot. These kids think they're untouchable, Tottenham was half anger, half kids taking the piss, tonight and last night though is kids getting free stuff and enjoying it, knowing/thinking that the police won't touch them. That's why the momentum is picking up so quickly. I spoke to someone today who knows a couple of the Enfield looters and she confirmed that when she asked why they simply said " to get free stuff innit?"

No fear and no respect runs through their vains which i why i want the police to deal with them as harshly as they like as quickly as they can. A short sharp shock is exactly what they need.

On a more personal note i closed my shop 2 hours early today and mine was the last in Chingford from our firm to close (we have 4) also every shop on my district which starts at Edmonton green and finishes at Hertford was closed from Waltham Cross down. There wasn't actually any trouble though which makes me think a lot of this seems worse through fear of the unknown of not knowing when the little pricks will turn up.

I'd hate to be a copper right now.

Can I suggest Putting on CNN right now the coverage is great.

You stood and applauded a post which supported the rioters in their rioting.

 

Editing it now, hours later, doesn't help you know.

 

Vito, you're right. I don't know what community leaders could help for non-religious communities. Perhaps grime MCs, footballers, those sorts? They're the guys that the rioters look up too. I'd like to see Prof Green making an appeal for calm on the BBC.

Music is most certainly the way here. Every troublesome/lost kid i've met in the area wanted to be a musician of some sort, it was often their only dream.

Underground grime and rap artists are the only ones who could possibly get them to listen and even then some of them are so far gone i don't think that would help.

I'M NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR PEOPLE. Feel like I'm banging my head off a fucking brick wall. I don't have an agenda apart from wanting to see more thought-out, rational approaches to these problems which I have, despite you seemingly missing, talked about earlier. As far as in the short-term, all you can do is appeal for calm from local community leaders and hope that the police are transparent as far as the shooting goes. And again, as far as on the internet talking shit, use that line all you want, but I'd say all of this to your face. And if you want to discuss if any further I'll be happy to do so over the phone as well.

No point talking to me on the phone, not my community anymore. If your as caring as you make out i'm sure there are plenty of youth worker vacancies in Tottenham. Don't bring anything of value though.

You have exactly made excuses for them

Firstly, I am not just referring to only this post by him but his many other EDL-defending posts. I utterly detest the EDL - a bunch of hateful, intolerant people. Secondly, there is yet to be an independent investigation into the shooting so you don't know exactly what happened. Thirdly, the shooting may have just been the straw that broke the camels back. Youths still complain of being stopped by the police for no reason and it has been shown time and time again that police use their stop and search powers disproportionately.

That's what usually happens in riots. I'm not saying it's right but this is what people do when they're angry and caught up in a riot situation.

Stopping and searching every black/asian kid (which if we're honest, is who are disproportinately stopped by the police) you see does not help the gun/knife problem. It just causes racial tensions and general mistrust between the community and the police. How many times have you been searched for weapons Mickey?

 

I think Magnum's description of people as scum pretty much sums up a wider problem as well. If you see certain groups of people as scum and treat them as such - why do you expect then expect them to behave in a manner that matches your values? It's just a new form of discrimination, much like racism and sexism. This time its the haves looking down on the have nots. Shameful really.

All sound like excuses to me and thats just the first 2 pages. Not sure where your posts are defending all the law abiding people who have had their homes, business etc burnt down/looted who grew up with the same disadvantages.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but your conclusion?

 

 

 

Fuck right off. I live in Wood Green. I've spoken to people who are worried they're going to lose everything because they run small businesses and their insurance doesn't cover that kind of vandalism.

 

People in Tottenham have lost their homes. You're talking about an area that does have poverty. You're talking about, well, people in similar positions to the rioters and looters. You think most of them have insurance? What about those that don't? Not everybody does, and not everyone is going to be covered by this.

 

It's not just chain stores taking a hit. It's family businesses and family homes. It's middle class bullshit to assume everything will be okay because of insurance. For some people, even if it shouldn't be, insurance is a luxury they can't afford.

This is what i'm annoyed about. If you want a deep argument about these man made ghetto's ok but whats being forgotten here in the point scoring is that people, and there are thousands of them who didn't want to venture out yesterday and didn't want to talk to the news have lost so much even if it's just there local supermarket. These are people who struggle to make ends meet and have to live in areas where it isn't safe to walk the streets and by and large aren't fun places to live.

If Bobbins, Whiskey and even you want to talk about improving it longterm then i'll take your points on board and listen but short to medium term the streets of Tottenham need to be cleaned up and these gangs of kids that i know from experience don't respect anything or anyone that isn't money need to be taught that their are consequences for their actions.

It's so frustrating when some of you completely misrepresent what I'm saying, probably influenced by the right-leaning, paranoia inducing, scare-mongering newspapers that you read.

 

All of this 'offer them an IT course and a cuddle' or 'misunderstood youth (HAHA)' bullshit, it's just complete mockery and just underlines how unfounded some of your arguments are and that fact they can only be backed up by misquoting and mocking others.

 

I have never said that any of these problems are easy. The point I have been trying to make all along is that these social situations are not there 'just because they are' or just because 'these people are scum'. There are underlying wider social reasons for it. THAT is the reason that these situations happen and that is what needs to be more understood to prevent them happening again.

You totally took what i said out of context and insulted me with it so quit the i'm so misunderstood shit.

Your sitting there 100's of miles away making excuses for people even though you have never been to the area, have no idea what life is like there and more disturbingly haven't once came up with anything productive to help the victims here. I'm not political, i don't support the right or left, i'll judge each situation as i see it. I have first hand experience of this, i have told you how i lived there, worked there and got out and yet you have dismissed every part of that just for your own agenda.

You have nothing to back up your argument other than an uneducated opinion and yet you patronise everyone who disagrees with you. As i said before, just another person on the internet talking shit.

There's something deliciously funny about trying to defend the actions of rioters and looters whilst rioting and looting is actually taking place outside people's windows! "Yes, I know your high street is being burned to the ground, but if you could only see past their bandanas you're realise they just want to be loved".

 

Behind all the increasing bile in this thread, there's been some good points. I generally agree with Duke that although the long-term solutions to these problems lie in the gentler arts of community-building, education and investment in local services, but that's all fairly moot once you've got people rioting along the streets and burning down buildings. At that point the problem needs to be dealt with in practical policing terms, and the police need to be able to deal with it without having to worry about hurting people's feelings.

 

The riots last night seemed, just from looking at the pics, to be of a different order to the ones on Saturday though - different ethnic makeup. The news described them as "copycat riots", though that's a bit simplistic I think.

Last night very much came across as opportuistic looting. In fact i think thats what the night before turned into as judging from the tv pictures the anger soon turned into pricks enjoying breaking and stealing stuff.

Guardian photos

Sickening.

My Nigerian mate (who had lived in Tottenham his whole life before moving up here 2 years ago), is devastated by all this. His family still live there and he is worried sick, on the phone to them constantly.

 

One of his old mates from school was one of those who's house had been burnt down, and he'd also been attacked as well beforehand.

 

 

He'd told me afew months ago that he was so glad to get out of Tottenham and that if you didn't know your way around, you'd have been in trouble within minutes - he couldn't believe how relaxed it is up here in comparison.

 

Gotta suck having your family trapped in the middle of it all whilst you are hundreds of miles away helpless to them.

People who have lived in places like Tottenham their whole life have no idea how different the rest of the country is, just like people who have never been to Tottenham for more than 3 minutes have no idea how bad it is.

Getting out was the best thing i ever did but for some reason i'm still totally gutted at whats happened to it.

What shop?

William hill. To update on that both William Hill's between the Green and ponders end were smashed up.

A work mate just said her shop which is in Edmonton just before Ponders End was smashed up and someone stabbed.

Fucking hell - I'm very, very glad that we're not in London anymore, the last time there was a disturbance at EG, my missus got very scared and upset, and I don't blame her. For reference, North London scared her, and she grew up in close proximity to Newark, NJ.

 

Search "Edmonton Green" on youropenbook.org - apparently, ASDA is getting fucked up, and the shopping centre.

 

 

 

I... erm... shit. My flat is above the new shops (such as Subway). Shit.

The thought of them getting inside the market and setting fires terrifies me what with the tower blocks above.

I hope they don't get inside the shopping centre and cause a fire. With all the flats above that could turn out far worse than anything we saw last night.